frilo

I noticed what you said about the % affected and my percentage actually went up far more then I expected. I tested it this week and came to a conclusion that is very frustrating, yet expected. My DPS was give or take the same for almost every fight, however, on fights in which a lot of movement is needed my DPS was lower, and fights in which you stand still for the majority of the fight my DPS was higher.

Thus, I came to the following conclusion.

Until one can use two +hit trinkets, or in some other way break 500 hit I would recommend gemming for pure AP. Gemming for pure AP implies that one is already hit/ exp capped. If you aren't... Gem for those first then AP.

However, once one breaks 500 hit from two trinkets I would be willing to bet that 4 piece + haste gems + ele T7 Trinket = Better dps than pure stacking of AP. If God ever decides to grant me Blood of the Old God or Pyrite Infuser I will test this. I will run Webstats of this week and next to once again test it and post my results in here.

Thanks.

P.S. I was also using Icewalker to boots and not run speed. I wonder how much of an difference it would make with Cat's Swiftness instead. Going to test that as well.

 

Chongar

Vengeance of the Forsaken - Items - Sigrie

Excuse me while I change my pants. With our T9 set only have one piece with expertise on it, this is outrageously good.

 

Rouncer

Does your issue with elimination stem from a head injury?

It's 350AP for 20 seconds on a 2 minute cooldown that requires ramp up time. Compare that to [Wrathstone].

1 expertise rating is equal to 1 crit rating in terms of ilevel costs. So that new trinket gives less AP on the clicky and requires a ramp up time and gives less stat benefit for the equip effect then a trinket that is 6 ilevels below it.

Hopefully it is a bug and either the Use is meant to be an Equip without a duration or a cooldown; or that trinket is only really useful as a shard.

Alt mage - Rounce

 

Chongar

Totally missed that Use bit, was looking at the left pane instead of the screenshot and didn't see the cooldown in the screenshot. I can only assume that's a bug, the use effect sounds more like a Fury of the Five Flights-style proc.

EDIT: Upon further research, the 10-man trinkets are all showing up the same way. The mp5 one clearly show that it's a bug, as the ramp-up time required to reach the full effect is close to what would be the full duration if this were a cooldown trinket. Blizzard has been pretty good so far this expansion about making trinkets that aren't pants-on-head retarded, I doubt they're suddenly making a complete 180 in that regard and having a whole tier of comically bad trinkets.

The other trinkets that show up this way, for reference:
Fetish of Volatile Power - Items - Sigrie
Eitrigg's Oath - Items - Sigrie
Binding Stone - Items - Sigrie

 

Sylvand

Hmm I misread these as well, the original caps might have been missing the use part maybe (the mmo-champion mouse-overs on them seem to be buggy). If they are indeed on-use, they do seem rather crappy and I can't see why they would be ilvl 232.

In any event as stated in the release notes, EnhSim 1.8.0+ treats these as always active, so it may have to be fixed.

 

Shendath

Hi guys,

I have a few Enhancement questions I hope you can help with, (there was a few other obscure ones but I have found those) and what I have been able to find has confused me slightly as numbers/sims/tech in general lol isn't my forte'.

They are both to do with Trinkets and Relics so if I may, Ill pop them both here to save spamming threads, as Im sure both are relativly easy to answer.

Here goes, :p

1/ Trinkets: I am Hit Cap'd/Exp Cap'd/30%crit and over 430 haste and Over 4K AP - currently using Mirror of Truth and Mark of Norganon for Trinkets - I scored Wrathstone last night in Uld, was wondering - Is is an upgrade over Mirror of Truth?

At first it appears to be, 856Ap ovr 20Sec w/ 2min CD compared to Mirror of Truth's 1000AP ovr 10Sec Passive Proc - Now when you factor in the internal CD of Mirror of Truth (I think thats 45sec?) compared to popping (and the time it takes you to actually 'pop' the trink) and the time ratio's that they stay in effect for, but then I was thinking it's great for boss fights etc, over time the Wrathstone would/should to be superior - Is my thoughts correct Wrathstone > MoT?

2/ Currently using Mark of Norgannon in Other trink slot. Take for granted that I am as stated in question 1, what generally are thought of as the two 'best' trinks for Enhance Shammys to have? (feel free to look at my armoury and rip it to bits lol)


3/ Relics - I think I am getting this one really really wrong and would like someone to lol at my stupidity; but I am having a brain fade - I have -

Totem of the Dancing Flame (+155 WeaponDamage when SS) currently equiped, I also have in the bank, Totem of Dueling (60 Haste when SS) and Totem of Hex (165SP LB) - consider that I don't PvP or Arena so have no intrest in those Totems, my questions again, what out of those should I be using, and What currently is considered the 'best' Relic for Enhancement? (ignoring the PvP ones) Im doing some very nice DPS, but we all want to do more don't we

4/ Last but not least, I currently have IceWalker (or whatever it's called) on my boots, back when I was tryin to reach Hit Cap it helped, but now no need, and I definalty understand the need for a 'Run Speed' enchant for alot of the newish uldar stuff, im finding if I ran that little bit faster, life would be well, much easier in there.

My question: Has anyone sim'd the run speed of both Cats and Tuskarrs enchants, is the Run Speed the same increase? If so, then obviously Cats Swiftness is still the prime choice (Agil vs Stam), I just find it weird goin for an enchant that was implemented in the game along time ago, and I thought had been surpassed.


Rouncer I have read alot of your comments and would love your advice on the above, I have tried to research as much as I can, but was confuddled by alot I read, so plopped it here.

Thanks to any who answer.

 

Sylvand

Wrathstone > Mirror; having the proc on-demand is pretty big especially considering some of the fights, and it has +24 crit rating.

The two best trinkets are going to be dark matter and comet's trail.

I believe totem of hex is the best of those, but I think dueling is not far behind.

 

Shendath

Ty Sylvand, I will look into those Trinks (they are in the new patch/content are they? I havent seen those names b4 thats all)

With my Mark of Norgannon atm I think Totem of Hex may be better than Totem of Dueling. But just how bad is the Totem of the Dancing Flame Im currently using, Ive never really considered it till now.

I have edited my original post with a question that came to me as an after thought. (q4)

 

Rouncer

Run speed beats all on any fight where you have to move more then 6 seconds out of every minute (might be 4 - the math has me a bit confundled as well). Having two sets of boots is the best option but other then that stick to a pair with some form of runspeed. Cats is best, although personally I just use Tuskar's since the extra stamina doesn't hurt and I have lived a few times with less then 100hp that I can remember.

Hex is basically equal to Dueling but is significantly better whenever there is more then 1 target. Arenas totems are still BiS but Hex can still end up being better when there are multiple targets to use chain lightning on. Dancing Flame is really more of a PvP totem then a PvE one and is worse then all the other ones mentioned.

Alt mage - Rounce

 

Sylvand

There's a thread in this forum about trying to find the best gear:

[Enhancement] BiS gear and set-up discussion

It looks like it currently uses [Blood of the Old God] instead of [Dark Matter], but it probably depends on the hit rating? In any event it also has the link to Comet's Trail - Items - Sigrie. All of these trinkets are currently live.

Ultimately it's going to be very difficult to simply look at stats and see which of a set of items is best. You're probably best to use one of the theorycrafting tools (Rawr or EnhSim).

 

• Raut

[Blood of the Old God] can be viewed as having 216 AP for as long as you need to gem hit. Equip BotOG, gem AP. Equip DM, gem hit. Net result is the same (roughly. +/- 6 AP).

BotOG has a better proc (chances are you are not simming crit above 2 EP).

Baby, you can hold my balls.

13:17 < Kalroth> gays on men tv? I love that channel

 

Snekaerpimp

Well the issue for me is this. Not a lot of gear has hit on it that is good for an enh shaman.Or rather If it has hit on it it tends to pay a high price on that hit, in all casses but trinkets. Wile Living Flame is not the best hit trinket in the game, it is a big pile of hit that you can then do not have to make up else where. What I am saying is that the value of hit trinkets are rather big over other stats because you are giving up the least of other stats to get the most.That is just what I see. i could look more deeply into this but trinkets often the things I care about the least.

As for on use as to on proc. Trinkets do not use the GCD, so macro them into an ability that you use in the case I use something like.

/use Living Flame
/cast lighting bolt rank....

That way when ever I use it I am casting lighting bolt. This means that as it is a bonus to spell power and I am using it just before casting I do not have worry about it proccing then not casting anything wile the proc is up. Still that is just the way I roll.

 

Rouncer

Living Flame -> 107 hit = 214 EP; 505 spellpower with 16.7% uptime = 84 EP; total value = 298 EP

For comparison

Pyrite Infuser -> 95 hit = 190 EP; 1234 AP with 16.7% uptime = 206 EP; total value = 396 EP

Mirror -> 84 crit (1.8 EP per crit) = 151 EP; 1000 AP with 16.7% uptime = 167 EP; total value = 318 EP
Conclusion

Living Flame is not a bad trinket, just it is better as a caster trinket considering there are significantly better options available. Even Mirror is a better option for enhancement, to say nothing of Grim Toll, the Darkmoon card or a Fury of the Five Flights and that doesn't even begin to touch a Runestone or a Blood or an Algalon trinket.

Alt mage - Rounce

 

Chongar

Interesting, Vengeance was indeed fixed, but not the way I expected.

Use: Each time you strike an enemy, you gain 215 attack power. Stacks up to 5 times. Entire effect lasts 20 sec.

 

Zensai

I don't understand why the normal sources do not have Comet's Trail stats. Or why the sims don't have it. Regardless of that.

I'm currently Running Comet's Trail, and BotOG. I'm actually considering dropping BotOG and using DM. Getting something Gloves of the Steady Hand, and moving some gems around. I would think will yield alot better results. I don't know if there is a good way to sim it, since I don't see many options for Comet's Trail. If there is a easy way to sim it and I've missed it. Sorry

 

Pandapwns

I Currently debating whether to pick up [Vanquished Clutches of Yogg-Saron] or [Dark Matter] I cant figure out which is better as i do not have any hard data on the tentacle besides that the crit comes out to ~244 EP for myself and the AP from [Dark Matter] is 222.
Does anyone have some Concrete data on the damage output of the tentacle?

 

kaoticz

The tentacles seem to usually output a minimum of 17k damage by the end of their duration, as per a guild members testing.

 

Pandapwns

That would be a whopping 141 dps. Could this put Vanquished Clutches over Comets trail?

 

Ryethe

That would indeed be very good.

However, if you spawned a melee tentacle on a movement fight the entire effect would be wasted. Would still be nice to swap in and out for fights that do support it fully.

 

Zensai

I'd like to see someone model the difference between running with Comet's Trail and Dark Matter, vs Comet's Trail with Blood of the Old God.

Going through my worldoflogs. Comet's Trail, and Blood proc fairly in sync. If thats the case, does ~1200ap during the 726 haste time = more DPS then then 13.37% crit from DM during the hasted time.

I am curious to see more solid data from the Clutches trinket, can the tent. die from AE's, and stuff like that.

 

Levva

Then try simming it. V1.8.2 of the EnhSim should have all of these trinkets modelled.

Seriously the value of any trinket is going to be very largely dependant on your current gear setup. What works well for you might be poor for someone else because of the difference in caps, gemming etc. If you don't bother simming it for yourself you are likely to get invalid results.

Author of ShockAndAwe Enhancement Shaman max dps addon
Author of Rawr.Enhance an automated gear checking program that can generate config files for EnhSim.
Please use the EnhSim by Tukez, Sylvand & others to simulate what gear, priorities etc are the best dps.
FAQ: Hit cap 342 Draenei, 368 Horde, Expertise rating cap 140 with 3/3 Unleashed Rage. Cap those before worrying about other stats.

 

Zensai

Current version crashes consistantly on my x64 machine. And I don't have any other options. Thats the only reason I was asking.

 

Pandapwns

I should (about 80% chance i will) Be getting clutches this week. If i do in fact get it i will do alot of testing with it and post results.

Edit: Apparently one of the members of our 10 man group got hacked. I have no clue if we will be able to get the right people anymore.

 

Levva

Then can you PLEASE post an error report at EnhSim - Issue Tracker we can't fix issues if ppl don't report them. Please just say what you do to reproduce the problem and give the full error message. A post saying "it crashes" doesn't help.

Author of ShockAndAwe Enhancement Shaman max dps addon
Author of Rawr.Enhance an automated gear checking program that can generate config files for EnhSim.
Please use the EnhSim by Tukez, Sylvand & others to simulate what gear, priorities etc are the best dps.
FAQ: Hit cap 342 Draenei, 368 Horde, Expertise rating cap 140 with 3/3 Unleashed Rage. Cap those before worrying about other stats.

 

Gondlem

Yeah, it can. The melee tentacle has ~25k HP or so, so it shouldn't die that easily if you time it correctly. It would require a bit of awareness to use well though, and there's certain fights where it wouldn't be as good as other trinket options. Seems to do a lot of damage though, I'd like to see some more numbers.