Rouncer

I think there is an issue with the talent Enhancing Totems and I would like to hear some opinions (and math) from other Enhancement Shaman regarding it.

The Talent is a 15% increase in value for SoE and Flametongue Totem. That works out to 23.25 additional Strength and Agility for everyone that the totem is affecting. The issue is that it overwrites Horn of Winter, removing that buff from anyone in range of the totem. If your SoE is untalented then both buffs stay active.

So if the fight involves movement or the totem is destroyed, then all those people are out 155 Agi/Str until Horn is reapplied or until SoE is placed again or they return to within 30 yards of the totem. What about a Hunter who only moves to within 30 yards for a few seconds and then ends up dpsing at 35 yards. The few seconds he was in range of the SoE totem activated that buff on him and removed Horn of Winter (if it was active), now when he leaves the range of the totem he no longer has either buff.

If you spend no points then both buffs coexist happily and then if the DK dies or doesn't refresh Horn in time the SoE stays active and no buff time is lost by any member of your raid.

I'm not sure how to do the math to establish how many seconds of lost buff time would equal out to what you would gain from having 3/3 Imp SoE Totem but I'm thinking it's actually a lot less then most people realize. Hopefully someone smarter then I can give us real numbers but for now I just respecced into 5/5 Ancestral Knowledge so I won't have to worry about the issue.

 

• Binkenstein

I guess going % of time with imp SoE * 178.25 vs 155 is the best way.

Solving that gives 86.96% uptime is the break even point. More than that, Imp SoE wins, less than that, it's bad.

 

Rouncer

So that's 8 seconds in a minute, if you lose the Imp totem buff for more then 8 seconds then it was better not to use it at all.

It's a bit more complicated then that in actual practice due to Hunters. Unless they stay either completely outside of totem range or completely inside of totem range they will be having much lower uptimes with either buff.

 

• Binkenstein

I've noticed similar things with how imp Moonkin & Elemental Oath stack, or don't as the case may be.

May be worth making a suggestion to Blizzard that while raid buffs don't stack, that the overwritten buffs remain up.

 

Rouncer

That would definitely solve the issue, problem is getting Blizzard to actually implement the change.

 

Pitbuller

All my earth totems have 40 yard radius. Is that bug or is there hidden effect on Enhancing Totems? If we got 40yad radius then uptime is drastically more when raid have to move. Or is that extra range only for me?

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

 

Rainheart

No, it doesn't depend from one particular talent, Blizzard buffed the totem range when the pre-expansion patch which brought new talent trees hit the servers.

 

Utters

I can confirm that in game I have a number of totems reaching 40 yards. Though it is not strictly limited to earth totems, nature resistance totem for instance is also 40 yards and an air totem.

What I believe pitbuller is getting at is that blizz said all totems would be 30 yards. Sure we have most of them at 30 but we do randomly also have a couple at 40 yards.

 

Pitbuller

It was 20yard before patch and 30yard after that. Wowhead, Thottbot, my resto guild mate and all posters before me say so. But my totems act differiantly. It's just not tooltip bug becouse I measured range. Bad thing is that windfury totem have only 30yard range.

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

 

Smokestomp

Interesting. Has anyone else noticed the mana spring tooltip reads 50 yards?

It is a pretty massive oversight by Blizzard to have hunters/casters 35-40 yards away and totem buffs that will not reach. I.E. Buffing flametongue as a melee shaman, or SoE 30yd range supposed to buff hunters. WF is 30 yards but Wrath of Air is 40 yards? Solved by removing hunters from WF....but what about PVP? Seems like a 40 yard radius on all buffing totems would be appropriate. Oh well.

 

Cishir

Well, to start off a fight I usually drop my totems along the way, a good 10-15 yards behind me. Don't know if there is a reason for not doing that DPS wise, but it usually catches my hunters and casters in range.