• Aeolian

Looking through my own parse I see several instances of 4-6 seconds between LS procs, and then these scattered throughout:

0:02'49.462 Iyos Lightning Shield hits XT-002 Deconstructor for 1690 Nature. (292 Resisted)
0:02'49.869 Iyos Lightning Shield hits XT-002 Deconstructor for 1690 Nature. (292 Resisted)
0:02'49.869 Iyos Lightning Shield hits XT-002 Deconstructor for 1690 Nature. (292 Resisted)

I double checked this one by manually adding up all of the LS procs for the entire Decon fight, the number I got (60,541) is exactly the same as the one WWS got, so the multiple procs at the same number seems to be right.

1:16'46.593 Iyos Lightning Shield hits Charged Sphere #6 for 1613 Nature.
1:16'46.658 Iyos Lightning Shield hits Storm Tempered Keeper #1 for 1424 Nature.

1:30'34.835 Iyos Lightning Shield hits Auriaya #2 for 1503 Nature.
1:30'34.835 Iyos Lightning Shield hits Auriaya #2 for 1352 Nature. (133 Resisted)

1:59'18.085 Iyos Lightning Shield hits Storm Tempered Keeper #3 for 1636 Nature.
1:59'18.463 Iyos Lightning Shield hits Storm Tempered Keeper #3 for 1637 Nature.

Anyways, either this is environmental damage or we are getting multiple procs. Most of the instances above could easily be environmental damage though, Tantrum/Orb/Gravity Bomb on Decon, Sonic Screech on Auriaya. The Charge Sphere is the data sphere thing that is spawned by the jumping Keepers, definitely a proc off AoE damage. I'm fairly sure there use to be an ICD associated with LS if I'm not mistaken, and I assumed it was still in place. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: 29 LS procs from being hit by a Wolf in Crystalsong, average 4.5 seconds in between procs, low 3.0 seconds, high 6.5 seconds (this was caused by me dodging his attacks). Would have collected a larger set of data but Silver Hand is being brought down for a couple hours for maintenance.

Second Edit: I won't be able to do the test without Static Shock, apparently Hard Mode fun time is incoming and considering I'll have to drop a bit of DPS for survival talents most likely, I'd rather not sacrifice anymore. I will try to get some tests done using the method Rouncer mentioned below though. I did a bit earlier, but the people I was using had to take off, I'll post when I have something useful.

The first parse group in this post is interesting though, the next Lightning Shield proc of any sort is ~3.5 seconds after the last one listed, which would suggest that at least one of them is a environmentally induced proc. Unless the last one listed is the Lightning Shield charge, and not from Static Shock it would seem that the ICD that Lightning Shield is subject too does not effect Static Shock. Sadly I can't be positive.

 

• Caladiera

Nice! Thanks Aeolian.

The questions needing solved are:

1) Are environmental LS procs independent of static shock procs?
2) What is the ICD on environmental LS procs (3 secs is lowest I've seen)?
3) What is the average environment proc time (4.5sec)?

If the procs are linked, ie an environmental proc can't happen within 3sec of a SS proc, a simulator would need to be created due to the RNG on SS.

 

Rouncer

Easiest way to test would require 3 people. Shaman hitting someone with fast daggers WF/WF to maximize the static shock procs. Another person would be hitting the shaman to try and proc defensive lightning shield onto themselves.

Run one set (say for 2 minutes) where the shaman only gets hit and just refreshes lightning shield when necessary. Then run a second set where shaman is hitting the third person and getting hit at the same time and see if there is any difference in the number of defensive activations.

 

Extenze

Why not just use a Servant of Grol, they'll attack you the entire time and are unkillable.

[e] I was just playing with it, and used all the charges in ~23 seconds.

 

Rouncer

So what did that tell you about whether the charges were activated offensively or defensively? If you are attacking something that is attacking you back there is no way to differentiate between what caused the shield to activate.

 

Vim

Just do what Rouncer said previously and run several tests standing just taking damage, and several where you are taking and dealing damage. (Id even try to grab 2 or 3 of those servants myself, if they spawned close enough to each other, to maximize the amount of hits coming in.)

 

Malan

Change the Combat_Time variable in the config time to be around 3 minutes duration and you can somewhat replicate the effect of only using it once per fight.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Peterle

In this case it would also display an ideal situation (using it once in 3 minutes). But in most situations you won't use it more often then once every 5 minutes (approximately).

 

IMB111

You're right but on the other hand you have the big advantage to pop them when the damage (or the healing) is really needed (like Yogg-Saron brainroom or Mimiron P2 + P4 for example). But influences like that are things you can't simulate.

 

Derfal

If you want to calculate the value of 1 use of the wolves per fight it's quite easy.
Run the sim with 6 min fights durations*.
Wolves dps x 3 = The value for a 1 min fight.
Dps for 1 min / 5 gives you the wolves dps for a 5 min fight.
Calculate the difference between the wolves original dps and the longer fight.
Subtract that from your original combined dps to find the dps value for a 5 min fight.


*wolves sim higher on 3 min fights than 6 min fights due to Bloodlust and 'Use' trinkets etc.

 

Gbits

Is there an easy way to determine the relative value of the FS glyph if you compare wolves (glyphed, used twice in a six minute fight) without BL versus wolves (not glyphed, used once immediately after BL, six minute fight)? I'm trying to decide whether to swap to the FS glyph, but I suspect it's not worth it if it's just being used 1x per fight - but I wonder whether it's enough of a bump if used twice even without the BL boost.

 

Volodymyr

After switching to "Glyph of Feral Spirit", I find it indispensable now. Even if the glyph simulated a slight DPS reduction over FT, LS, LL, which for me it doesn't, I would still use it. When pyrite / MoT proc during a bloodlust and you are DPSing with 10k attack power with wolves up, you see a dramatic difference. If you find yourself always popping wolves for burn phases, this glyph is a serious performer.

 

Gbits

<edited for facepalm-worth idiocy>

 

Malan

You know you can see that info on his armory link right?

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Chongar

Just for the sake of considering all available options, has anyone considered Fire Elemental for their third glyph? You'd still only be able to pull it once on most fights, but being able to use it on multiple attempts for a progression fight would be very convenient, albeit mildly difficult to sim properly. The last time we farmed Patchwerk I had the elemental doing about 1150 DPS compared to 570 for the Magma totem. My (glyphed, bloodlusted, summoned with trinkets/cooldowns up) wolves were doing 1200. Not sure if the elemental gets BL or not. That is a large number on its own, and then you'd have to consider the GCDs saved by not having to refresh Magma all the time.

 

Malan

The elemental doesn't get any buffs because its a minion not a pet.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

darkInertia

Another point to complicate LS environmental damage: there are some fights where LS procs from environmental damage are wasted (e.g. hard mode council when you deal damage to the mob that you're not currently dpsing). Other examples would be the feral defender hitting you on auraiya, aoe from the molten constructs in ignis, kologarn's left arm, freya with the healing buff on her, tentacles on yogg that you're not dpsing down (phase 3). It's not an expansive list, and in many cases the "wasted" LS damage would be pretty small, but it still exists as another factor.

 

Rouncer

How is the damage wasted? Unless the mob is meant to survive through the end of the encounter does it really matter what the damage happens to be applied to? Damage is damage.

Alt mage - Rounce

 

Imadraenei

Well, using his example of Iron Council, it's damage that isn't productive or doesn't assist in completing the encounter. Steelbreaker's aura would proc LS quite a bit, but until you're actually killing him it's not really effective damage. This also causes charges to burn faster for "nothing", requiring more GCDs to maintain the shield.

Of course, it stills shows up on the meters.

 

Deathicle

Lightning Shield procs on Steelbreaker before your raid is actually focused on killing him are pretty worthless: he heals to full when one of the trio dies.

 

Rouncer

I'm still waiting for proof that environmental effects proc lightning shield while in focused combat on something in the first place. Maybe figure that out before worrying about what exactly those charges are hitting.

Seems from my limited testing that the 3 second cooldown on the shield proccing from incoming damage is triggered whenever a Static Shock proc occurs but without specific testing to determine the mechanic my saying it is just as worthless as your stating that a lightning shield proc on Steelbreaker is worthless.

Go sort out the mechanic first and then you can discuss the possible ramifications of that mechanic.

Alt mage - Rounce

 

Deathicle

I know for a fact that Lightning Shield will proc simply by someone agroing Freya. There was a lot of yelling when our raid was told not to dps her at the start of +3 Hard Mode so we could save trinket procs for the first set of adds and our Shamans constantly showed damage at the beginning! I don't see how Steelbreaker would be any different.

 

Rouncer

There is a big difference between a proc when you aggro something and environmental damage proccing your shield while you are in combat. My current theory is that while static shock procs are not subject to the 3 second cooldown, they do activate that cooldown and prevent the procs that would normally occur from environmental damage. That is what you need to disprove before worrying about what encounters will or will not be giving you bonus damage from incoming damage activated lightning shield procs.

Alt mage - Rounce

 

• Raut

Uhm. This seems backwards. Deathicle has to disprove your theory before he can put forward his own?

As for "wasted LS procs". Sure, some of the LS procs are wasted if they trigger on a fight like Iron Council and the mob getting it isn't the one being burned. Still, this applies to less than half of the Ulduar fights. On the majority you're still doing damage to something that needs to die.

Baby, you can hold my balls.

13:17 < Kalroth> gays on men tv? I love that channel

 

Rouncer

He can put forward whatever theory he wants but before he can argue that the LS glyph is better then the Sim says it is due to environmental activations, he needs to prove that those environmental activations actually do occur in the first place during boss fights.

Alt mage - Rounce