I've tried to sim a few different glyphs, not FS because i'm not using it in my rotation, only if i'm running.
I've tried using FS in my rotation before both glyphed and unglyphed, but i noticed a drop in my DPS both on dummys and in raids, so i have pretty much ignored it since.

These are my results, 2 standard glyphs using Stormstrike and Feral Spirit and played around with the 3rd glyph and the 2 talent points normally used for mana talents.

Windfury glyph + 1 talent point in Elemental Focus + 1 talent point in Reverberation = 8450.65 DPS
same talents as above, but switched LS glyph for Windfury = 8456.34 DPS
LS glyph + 1 talent point in Elemental Focus, but moved the point from Reverberation to Imp. Shields = 8461.58 DPS
LS glyph, but moved the point in Elemental Focus to Imp. Shields aswell making it 3/3 = 8463.28 DPS
Replaced LS glyph with FN glyph, using my current spec with 1 point in Elemental Focus and 2/3 in Imp. Shields = 8382.86 DPS


Hardly any difference, but LS glyph seem to come on top for me and FN glyph at the bottom.

How much latency are you running the sim with?

150-250 (I raid with 15ms of actual latency).

From my experience in many (if not all) bosses there are no environmental LS procs, i presume because they have been programmed like that. I have noticed as well the LS proc at the Freya pull, and maybe Iron Council, but no other bosses.

Edit: Nvm that, wrong page.

Out of curiosity, what if you were to remove lava lash entirely and use the glyphed fire nova in it's place? With a 3 second cooldown, it essentially would fill the same shoes as if you had 2x 6-second cooldown skills.

While this is something I've mainly been toying with in random heroics, I wonder if it might be worth while in the end-game area.

What you are forgetting is that lava lash is an extra chance to proc a maelstrom (and all the goodies that come with a maelstrom). If you took lava lash out of your rotation completely, I am fairly certain you would see a DPS decrease with the new 4 piece set bonus of t10, if not already. But by all means, sim your idea and see how it works out for you.

Remember that the min/max lag values are not just latency but also reaction times. Typical reaction times are around 180-200ms according to Wikipedia article Reaction time - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This then suggests that the sim setting should be say 200-300. Anything less than 200 is somewhat unrealistic. Remember that the sim does account for the 250ms reaction time grace period for spell queueing. Therefore your min/max should use realistic values to get accurate results. 150 is on the low side for being realistic.

Ah, you're correct. Drops by 200-300dps in the sim for me, for some reason I had the idea in my head that MW only came from white hits. Looks like I'll be sticking with my stack of fire nova glyphs and LS glyphs for swapping out for a while. Note, this is why I stick to restoration, I'd probably be crazy enough to try this in a raid setting before simming it.

Those were all the goodies I was referring to, maelstrom was just the main one worth mentioning because that was what directly affects the set bonus.

Did a battery of sims yesterday to determine best 3rd glyph. Suprisingly fire elemental glyph came out on top by a large margin (100-150 dps) on a 7 min fight, 10000 hours sim. Second best was flame shock, followed closely by LS and WF (these 2 almost tied).


Did someone else got results like this?

What gear set did you use when testing this? Old best in slot, the newest proposed best in slot, or your own current gear set up?

Can you post any logs to back up your findings?

What's the point of simming it out? It's our best possible glyph if the fight is long enough to give you a second summon. The glyph is absolutely worthless if the fight is too short to allow a second summon. How many fights go over 5 minutes? If you are looking to glyph for a fight that averages say 5:30 +/- 30 seconds then it would be worth configuring the sim to figure out if it would be worth using that glyph (set config to 5.5 minutes with a variance of ~10%) but otherwise there is no point whatsever.

Are you 100% on this?

FE would need to out dps both MT and FN. FN's still tied to the actual totem, it's not on the pet. So if there's any movement at all you're pretty much boned and now have a useless glyph.

The assumption is that the fight is long enough for a second effective summon. Having a Fire Elemental out that just wanks off in the corner isn't really an effective one.

Currently there isn't a fight where you can get a second effective summon, which is why the glyph isn't really very good except if your raid is organized enough that you can wipe, recover and pull again such that you wouldn't have the Elemental available at all for the encounter. Either that or for farm content where you are moving through the bosses fast enough that the glyph lets you use the Fire Elemental on every encounter instead of every other but that really wouldn't increase your dps on a per fight basis so it isn't really something people consider important.

When we get to heroic modes, if Saurfang takes 6 minutes or longer to kill then I will be glyphing for the Fire Elemental. At least I will be for that fight.

Just a quick mention, the AoE on BQL -does- proc Lightning Shield, making LS Glyph amazing in that encounter. Lightning Shield was always 3rd or 4th top ability either slightly ahead or behind Lightning Bolt.

I am wondering, did you test this on other bosses too?

I somehow remember there was a time talking about ae-dmg and lightning shield, and i think it was tested that ae dmg doesnt proc this. Why does the queen encounter proc LS but for example Rotface not? (If you have tested this~)

It's the Twilight Bloodbolt that BQL casts that triggers our shields. I noticed this the other day in our 10man kill of her, when an orb from my watershield would proc even though I was still casting a chainheal.

Well it seems to me that LS only procs on certain kind of AE damage, in general it does somehow need to identify the attacker, there's no one to hurt with an environmental AE.
In the case of Festergut, though according to the logs and recount it is actually Festergut causing the AE damage.
For AE damage to proc LS it probably needs two things, someone causing it (as in not environmental) and it shouldn't be raid wide damage (if I remember right it doesn't really matter where you are during the Festergut fight to get hit by the AE).
What kind of AE is the one of BQL?

This isn't based upon data, but my own observation and my kill video of the Blood-Queen:

On 25man at least, her AE effect (Shroud of Sorrow - Shroud of Sorrow - Spells - Sigrie ) does NOT proc LS when in Air phase proc.

Here's what I base my statement on:

YouTube - Kill Loot Repeat vs Blood-Queen Lana'thel

She goes up for her air phase and if you crank up the video a bit, you see that I have 5 LS charges left when she goes up for 10ish seconds. The AE keeps hitting during that time (as well as her random attack during flying). When she lands, my charges are still on 5 stacks.
Our resto shaman confirmed though, that the aura is proccing his WS.

Edit: edited the proc in air

But then again when she lands you almost inmediatly lose 1 charge and the 4 remaining in less than 5 seconds and nothing besides the aura is ticking you. Anyway you can check one of our best trys from yesterday on BQL, I'm currently using the LS glyph (even the sim puts it almost equal to WF glyph and superior to FS glyph on my current gear) and LS is #4 top dmg ability.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Guess the aura tick doesnt proc LS when on air but it does on ground?

Being Dual Specced Resto for more flexibility in our 10 mans where I heal encounters that require a 3rd healer, I was healing for our 10 man Kill of BQL and I can confirm that at least WS charges get consumed by the constant aoe ticks during the fight, I had to refresh the shield every 10 seconds, even with having a 4th charge from the minor glyph...

Assuming the LS and WS follow the same mechanic when triggered from external incoming damage, what people are reporting here makes sense. For that specific encounter, it seems that LS is going to contribute for more damage than usual... in fact I will probably be glyphing LS for BQL.

I am not far enough along in my ICC raid group to have seen BQL yet so I may be hand waving here. However I have a theory that fits with the information I have seen posted here and I have experienced in game. That theory is that the shields will only expend charges when there is a valid target. The best way I can think to explain it is with some pseudo code. Imagine the spell's proc being defined as a series of nested case statements like this.

Apply the above code to both the water shield and lightning shield scenarios.

Water Shield
You get damage (case 1)
You are not on internal cooldown (case 2)
You are the target and are valid (case 3)
water orb consumed and mana returned to you.

Lightning shield ground phase
You get damage (case 1)
You are not on internal cooldown (case 2)
Blood Queen is the target and is a valid target (case 3)
Lightning orb consumed and Blood Queen receives damage.

Lightning Shield Air Phase
You get damage (case 1)
You are not on internal cooldown (case 2)
Blood queen is either not target-able or invalid for some reason (case 3 is false)
No orbs are consumed and no damage done.

Like I said above, I haven't gotten to this fight so I don't really know if BQL can be damaged in her air phase, if she can my scenario might need some re-evaluated. My theory is that the reason lightning shield doesn't proc on some auras and most environmental effects but water shield almost always procs on them has to do with each spell's target (lightning shield wont work if there is no target associated with the damage or the target is invalid for any reason but water shield will proc because the target of it's effect (you) is always valid). On Fights where neither spell procs I assume its because the damage is treated like a Dot effects which as I recall do not proc orbs generally.

Those of you currently able to do the BQL fight care to comment on what goes on in the air and ground phases. Even if BQL is still damageable by ranged dps there could be range issues with how far away you might be from the target (causing the proc to fail).