While not using patchwerk as the solo barometer, it does seem to be the standard. While rereading the posts it did seem as people had still been asking which ones appear to be the best glyphs and thought to merely respond with what I had personally figured out after multiple raids.

While the sim is able to thousands of hours in combat in minutes, I am also one of those people that still like to also take the actual results into consideration as well. I do believe with the exception of a couple boss fights, most boss fights are only 2-3 minute with multiple boss fights that take a single minute, so blowing timers and everything within that two minute span of a boss fight and seeing what I get is not always the same as what the sim calculates as me having.

I probably shouldnt have posted, as Ive been a constant lurker and generally refrain from discussion, it just did seem like in my own tests I was beating out what the simulator was saying I should get.

The sim would give you much higher results if you set the combat time for 2:20 or whatever your expected DPS time is on Patchwerk. I didn't mean that using Patchwerk wasn't a good method of checking out your DPS, but it seemed like you were claiming one good fight was justification for your glyphs as the superior set, which is silly. If that wasn't your intent then my mistake.

It becomes more interesting, but you might want to finish out Call of Flame for the extra 5% damage from your searing totem over going 3/3 Imp shields.

This of course assumes that you have someone else giving the raid the 10% ap buff. edit: Fail at practicing what I preach.

I guess they couldn't get the Glyph of Earth Shock to work right so they just changed it entirely.

Either that or they don't want to give us anymore dps in PvE but they want us to have access to a GCD reduction for PvP.

Makes it also the first glyph to affect multiple spells (besided single buff/group buff), which somehow breaks the glyph system. I also don't see the big advantage for PvP, because if, then I would need the shorter GCD before the shock, not after. As long as they don't remove the shared shock cooldown.

It's a stupid thing to debate but if you really want to discuss this.

Timeline (as my brain recalls it)

1 - Rowynn posts in the shaman thread pointing out that the Earth Shock glyph, like the moonkin GCD reduction ability, is bugged and gives a really nice script to test it.

2 - I play with the script and run a combat log proving that the glyph is definitely bugged.

3 - I post it on the Beta Forums, get a GC response that very same day saying that it is probably just being blocked from going below 1 second by something and should be an easy fix.

4. Within that same week GC also responds to some player "concerns" by telling us that Enhancement was already pushing the edge of acceptable dps.


Earth Shock glyph would be the 2nd best glyph after Stormstrike by a significant margin, basically the equivalent of using Berzerker over Mongoose. The developers have to know that since we told them that in the Beta forums and in the WotLK Enhancement thread here from our Sim testing. Keep in mind that their numbers are always better then ours especially for something as straightforward as this.

Do you really think it that unlikely that the Earth Shock glyph was originally intended as a PvP glyph for all Shaman specs prior to Wind Shock and that they backburnered fixing the Glyph while player dps rankings sorted themselves out? Now it's even better as a PvP glyph (Frost Shawk anyone?) and it has a dps value somewhere between FT/LS and the Lava Lash glyph for Enhancement.

All of this is conjecture based on purely circumstantial evidence but it seems to fit a hell of a lot better then, "uh we can't seem to fix the shaman Earth Shock glyph, whatever will we do......ah screw them just put the same shitty code on all their shocks, who cares about enhancement shaman anyway.....F them.....ok done now lets get back to DKs, someone actually killed one yesterday."

Just trying to make sure I got all this down...
To to recap for Glpyhs:

#1 is Stormstrike
#2 is the New Windfury (3.0.8)
#3 is Lightning Shield with the caveat that Flametongue may be better in sub-optimal conditions (needing to get UR and losing Imp shields as a result, lacking replenishment so WS is sometimes used), but this really has no bearing in a discussion of optimal DPS as we should also be assuming optimal conditions. It's up to each shaman to know their exact situation and which glyph will perform better.

Glyph of Shocking, Lava Lash, and Lightning Bolt will all be inferior to the top 4 and should not be considered for serious DPS.

Did I miss anything?

I would say that #3 is still up in the air and even #2 will need a little bit of time with the Sim (once the patch goes live so it's worth updating) to confirm.

As best I can tell upon logging in today, the Glyph of Shocking is different than the patch notes would suggest. When I mouse over the glyph, it reads "Reduces the global cooldown triggered by your shock spells by 1 second." So either they made a typo, or changed it effectively back for Enh Shammies. Can anyone confirm one or the other? My latency and fps have been so low since the server restarts that I can't effectively comment on the actual gcd reduction.

use this script

/run hooksecurefunc("CooldownFrame_SetTimer", function(_, start, duration, enable) if start > 0 and enable > 0 then DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage(duration) end end)

and it will report in your chat log the GCD.

edit - it's 1 second so that means it's only a 0.5s reduction not a 1 second reduction.

Has anyone looked into the Lightning Bolt Glyph? 4% more damage on LB seems better then 10% on LL and in the sims I have done it seems to come up that way.

I didn't run the numbers on the new WF glyph, I just assumed it wasn't as good and replaced it with the LB glyph.

First of all, LL has been understood to be a greatly inferior glyph for a while.

As far as the WF glyph, you should run the numbers, because you are probably going to be surprised to find that the change is an improvement over the old WF glyph. If you don't care enough to put in some effort to find your best practice, why would you expect others to do the work for you?

Both of these issues have been addressed in this thread and, considering its short length, you should read up before you ask questions which have already been answered.

Not really necessary to look into those glyphs too deeply. Just look at your WWS and it will confirm that they are not good.

Stormstrike Glyph is obviously better than both LL and LB, So that's your first major. Now you have two slots left.

Just looking at some of my WWS:

LB is usually around 14-16% of my total damage. The Glyph would give a 4% increase to that damage.
LL is usually around 4-5% of my damage. Glyph increases by 10%. (I believe I was even using The Stray...I now have Sinister Revenge, so LL will get weaker)

Compare to:

Spell damage that can crit is around 40-45% of my damage. Glyph of FT would increase that by 2%.
Lightning Shield is usually 4-5% of my damage. Glyph increases by 20%.

Maybe my overall numbers are off because I know I don't have perfect reflexes nor do I use Shock and Awe, but you should be able to do a similar comparison with your own WWS. I'm betting that LS and FT would be better glyphs than LL or LB.

And to just dismiss the new WF glyph...and replace it with a glyph that is meant for Ele. What numbers were you looking at that lead you to this conclusion?

Hm, I've been thinking some. Since Blizzard aren't stupid, they wouldn't give shaman 2 set tier bonus (10% dmg increase on LS) for no reason. And ussing the Stormstrike glyph, WF glyph and LS glyph and speccing like this Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft would give you 63% dmg increase when LS triggers, and a friend of mine said Static Shock isn't working... But checking my top damage attacks, it goes like this:

1. Melee
2. Windfury
3. Lightning Bolt
4. Earth shock
5. Flametounge weapon
6.Lightning shield
-
-
8. Lava Lash.

So taking LS glyph instead of LL glyph would make it better ? And imo Static Shock is good :P And if you wonder, he told me like this when telling me Static Shock wasn't good.

"Lets say you do 60 white hits / Minute 6 Lava Lash and 7-8 Stormstrikes. Thatäs 60+6+8=74/100*6=4,44. So lets round of to 5 LS hits per minute."

And each time I do a boss, I look what abilities/spells that did the most dmg, and LS does around 80 000 on Patchwerk. So is it really that bad?

Don't say "Blizzard aren't stupid." Remember some of the ridiculous set bonuses on BC tier gear (yes there were some good ones too)?

Static Shock is working fine. Your friend's theoretical numbers are pretty low. You'll have more white hits, more LL swings, each Stormstrike counts twice (once for MH, once for OH) and I believe (this has been off and on) Static Shock procs off WF, too. And even 5 procs a minute would be greater than 100 dps.

Static Shock has no cooldown and thus scales pretty well with haste. And LS still procs off raid damage and some environmental damage, too.

In short: the talent is no small deal; and with all the multipliers it just gets better.

The WF weapon change is nice because it helps defer some of the cost of lots of haste (increased time to proc) and scales much nicer than a flat AP bonus. It'll also answer the question I've long had about whether the 36% chance per weapon to proc with dual WF is intentional or the result of a bug. 41% proc chance? It's programmed in. 43.75% proc chance? It's an accident they kept. In either case, it may blur the lines of which imbue set is preferable (and by extension, which Glyphs).

Has anyone made a test, whether the new wf glyph actually works? Because unlike the stormstrike glyph, it doesn't change the tooltip of the spell, which made me wonder.

I just made a small test myself at the heroic dummy, with a 1h/shield, 2.6 speed, windfury rank 8 and no wf totem, so that my attack speed wouldn't drop below 1.8 sec. I got 413 wf procs in 2202 (including 7 dodges, no misses) swings, which results in a proc rate of 18.75%. But I guess, one hour of testing is just too short.

yah it works

http://elitistjerks.com/1058487-post66.html

if you want to make sure that you aren't losing procs it's better to use a 3.3speed weapon or slower, read the whole thread if you are curious about why.

The following regarding 3.0.8 is listed on MMO-Champion:

Glyph of Earth Shock - Renamed to Glyph of Shocking - Reduces the global cooldown triggered by your shock spells by 0.5 sec. (Old - Reduced the GCD triggered by Earth Shock by 1 second)

The ingame Information is different! The text is the same, but it says the GCD is reduced by 1 second.

I have no adequate addon installed to log the real GCD some kind - but in the combat log i often have ES and SS or LL in the same second. (so GCD must be below 1 sec) So looks like the ingame description is correct.

I guess the GCD without the glyph is 1.5sec? (0.5s with glyph).

So Top3 Glyphs would be WF, SS and Shocking - correct?

Can somebody confirm that?

Could you at least read the page that you are posting on?

10 posts up from this one.

http://elitistjerks.com/1062675-post62.html

Gives a nice script to actually see the GCD in game as it is reported to the client from the server (and yes it works, put on some haste and cast an instant spell like 2/2 Ghost Wolf and note that the GCD is something like 1.31 or whatever the haste reduced your GCD to).

The Glyph takes the GCD on all shocks to 1 second. It will be very nice for PvP but will not be a good choice for PvE.

arrr, i was flying over the text only and overread these 2 posts
Ty for the roundup anyways.

I read this thread, but your results are as insufficient as mine. With a weapon speed of 2.6 to 2.9 we should end with a procrate of 20% with the glyph while auto-attacking. But your numbers are lower then that. And your tests at the end, were way too short, to take them as a final proof.

I will try to do a longer testrun in the next days.