You are confusing me here. Are you just trying to be facetious, or did you actually somehow manage to mangle your EP values that badly?
As I said earlier, spell power doesn't ever get that highly weighted. For my FT/FT skewed EP, it's value is only at ~1.5-1.6EP. Even with my gear set up/enchanted/gemmed for FT/FT that gear you linked would be terrible. For the most part the gear you want is the exact same. It's all mail, and it's all enhancement. You still want the 4p badly.
In fact, if I goto lootrank with my FT/FT skewed EP values, I think there is only two slots that even has a single peice of cloth in them. And it's way down near the bottom.
The only reason that neck/cloak are so high is that they have a massive amount of haste on them and a socket, spellpower has very little to do with it. Even then, the cloak is only barely better than the [Drape of the Deadly Foe].
The world isn't ending. You don't need to completely regear. Just pick up one of the trash caster weapons that no one from your guild wants anymore and you will be fine. Maybe regem. ToHF is only like 80EP better than the HoAP anyways, so it's not like your DPS will be trash if you don't have one.
Speaking of testing, anyone want to check and see if using FT/FT is really giving 4% crit when used with the glyph or if it is just a tooltip error?
I saw some testing done on this here, in addition a few people on Wowhead have tested FT/FT to get 4% crit.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Would it help if they made it so the SP on the two FT wouldnt stack?
I would assume this would be more of a "quick fix" that wouldn't really fix anything. I think doing something like that would only serve to delay the problem for a later time when spell power gearing is high enough to overtake WF again.
If there's a fix, it would have to be in the mechanics of either Flametongue weapon or Windfury Weapon
Elemental Mastery - Lightning Bolt - Die - Reincarnation - Lightning Bolt - Lightning Overload Procs - Die
To the very few in this thread that are actually trying to compare the FT and WF glyph, thank you.
I know this post isn't exactly contributing to anything, but for a thread that's meant to be about calculating numerical comparisons, all I see is a bunch of off topic dribble.
Why the hell is every enhancement thread on these forums polluted by ill thought out WF/FT vs FT/FT debates?
Just because you don't have the ability to post a new thread, don't go posting derailing a thread with crap.
To the very few in this thread that are actually trying to compare the FT and WF glyph, thank you.
I know this post isn't exactly contributing to anything, but for a thread that's meant to be about calculating numerical comparisons, all I see is a bunch of off topic dribble.
Why the hell is every enhancement thread on these forums polluted by ill thought out WF/FT vs FT/FT debates?
Just because you don't have the ability to post a new thread, don't go posting derailing a thread with crap.
Thanks.
The FT/FT vs. WF/FT creates a rift in play style and itemization and is a central question that affects every facet of our dps greatly. It's not ill thought, its constructive, critical thought. If you're not interested in that minutia, you have come to the wrong forums.
This is a glyph thread and depending on whether FT or WF on your MH is highest dps, you will glyph differently. So first people must determine which is best practice for their gear. That's why you see it brought up everywhere.
Reran my Glyph of WF test after this morning's server reset.
Recount damage range is now 392 through 417: exactly the damage range I would expect if the 40% bonus to wf AP was removed.
Looks like the glyph now gives a mere +2% proc boost. How does it rank up now with the other glyphs?
Can we get some real confirmation of this. Some naked talent-less testing using a 3.3 speed weapon or slower would be the most ideal. Straight autoattack with glyph and without to establish the proc chance increase and whether the AP is still being effected. If they pulled the AP and kept it at 2% then it's time to start the massive QQ up on the official boards again.
Can we get some real confirmation of this. Some naked talent-less testing using a 3.3 speed weapon or slower would be the most ideal. Straight autoattack with glyph and without to establish the proc chance increase and whether the AP is still being effected. If they pulled the AP and kept it at 2% then it's time to start the massive QQ up on the official boards again.
That is the problem with such hidden things, they can pull it any moment with a hot fix and you possibly wont even notice it.
But I would wait for the first 3.1 patch notes before QQ, maybe they change some things, like removing or lowering the wf-cooldown.
That is the problem with such hidden things, they can pull it any moment with a hot fix and you possibly wont even notice it.
But I would wait for the first 3.1 patch notes before QQ, maybe they change some things, like removing or lowering the wf-cooldown.
What makes you think there will be any change to the WF glyph (or FT scaling) in the next patch when there's been zero response from Blizzard on the topic thus far? If we can verify this now, it should be brought to the attention of the devs now and on a continuing basis until it is acknowledged as either an issue or "working as intended."
# The Glyph of Windfury Weapon will not apply additional attack power.
# A Grounding Totem is now properly destroyed even if the grounded spell did not do damage.
# Tremor Totem now properly pulses every 3 sec.
Flametongue Glyph is giving +2% spell crit per weapon on the character display. So Dual Wielding FT gives +4% spell crit.
I have not run a test to confirm that we actually see this, but it would be a worthwhile test. If confirmed, a tweak to the sim if it is not already programmed would be useful.
+4% crit to a setup that has over 60% of its damage as crittable spell damage is very decent.
GG Flame Knives build! (Or Flame Maces depending on what drops for you.)
Given the focus shift at the moment, what kind of implications will this give to the consumables we use? Are we better off with a Flask of The Frostwyrm Vs. Flask of Endless Rage? Spellpower Elixir Vs. Elixir of Agility?
I haven't had the chance to run a simulator yet, but if anyone has done some testing, results would be much appreciated.
Given the focus shift at the moment, what kind of implications will this give to the consumables we use? Are we better off with a Flask of The Frostwyrm Vs. Flask of Endless Rage? Spellpower Elixir Vs. Elixir of Agility?
I haven't had the chance to run a simulator yet, but if anyone has done some testing, results would be much appreciated.
Trading AP which gives spell power as well as attack power for our melee attacks, for spell power which only effects our spells and you think it will be more? Well I simmed it a week ago just out of curiosity when FT/FT was starting and it's less, so endless rage is still best. However, running the sim yourself could have told you this as well.
FT/FT slow/slow combo. (added 2% to my spell crit manually)
FT/LS glyph - 5489.22
FT/LL glyph - 5469.14
Which means that for slow/slow wf glyph is ahead of ft by 10 dps (for me).
Just did slow/fast (angry dead - > hand of nerub, since both are weapons that I have)
FT/LS glyphs with wf/ft chants
5503.54 (5569 after 40% removed)
same glyphs but ft/ft
5477.09
Also tried frost wyrm flask with ft/ft, slow/fast and ft/ls glyphs and I got:
5479.41 dps
Edit: Ok I relized that I was using flask of relentless asault instead of endless rage which invalidated some of the previous findings. Updated the post to reflect that.
Edit - Disregard, redundant post was citing Blizzard's change to Glyph of Windfury, missed the last page of posts for some reason. I blame the rather ghetto way I'm bypassing my work's internet filter.
Last edited by Electrofreak : 02/19/09 at 8:28 PM.
Trading AP which gives spell power as well as attack power for our melee attacks, for spell power which only effects our spells and you think it will be more? Well I simmed it a week ago just out of curiosity when FT/FT was starting and it's less, so endless rage is still best. However, running the sim yourself could have told you this as well.
Well actually, this depends on your current gear set as well as whether or not you're choosing to use the FT/FT Spell weapon combination or not. If you're still using WF on your MH, then yes Endless Rage will most likely be better, but if you're using FT/FT with a spell weapon like I am atm, then you need to sim it for yourself. At the moment, Flask of the Frost Wyrm is actually better for me, but just by around 20dps or so. I suggest everyone sim it out for themselves rather than relying on a definitive answer from anyone.
Elemental Mastery - Lightning Bolt - Die - Reincarnation - Lightning Bolt - Lightning Overload Procs - Die
From MMO: The Glyph of Windfury Weapon will not apply additional attack power.
I wonder whether they just remove the AP bonus and leave the glyph on 2% proc chance which would suck, or whether they set it to 5% as it was planned.
Remember to sim, for my gear set FT has been more dps than LS, even when WF was a good glyph.
Also if you are stuck with slow/slow (myself, webbed death won't drop) don't rule out glyph of lightning bolt, it currently sims higher than lightning shield for my gear set as well.
Haven't seen this posted, but from a thread in Damage Dealing forums yesterday. Here.
The designers are very aware of the WF vs. FT discussion. We are still talking about the issue and exploring different ways we can shift numbers back and forth. This is something I very much want to discuss with my team some more and it would be irresponsible for me to comment on our direction or solutions until that time.
That's what worries me, I fear a big MQ nerf incoming to combat the FT/FT issue...as we know blizz just like to take the easy way out. The only possible reason to stop that from happening would be WF/WF becoming vastly superior again due to the drop in FT damage (along with other effects such as MW and SS not being used as much due to the drop in spelldmg).
The least harmful solution I can see is to stop all weapon buffs from being used on both weapons at once. (even if it did lead to some weird theorycrafting around WF/FT vs. FT/WF it's better than losing a third or a half of our spelldmg)
02/13/09, 5:30 AM
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