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Old 10/17/09, 12:02 PM   #271
Souai
Von Kaiser
 
Souai
Orc Shaman
 
No WoW Account
You can use Simulationcraft. I think it may model some things better than Blink's spreadsheet (trinkets, lag, etc), however it has a bit of a learning curve. You don't want to use their sample output and you don't want to use their default values for step function. So many items are essentially unreachable before Icecrown that a more helpful profile would not have the cloak, only at max two pieces of 258T9 and one Reign of the dead, etc.

Some of the information you would need is clearly in the How to Run section, but it doesn't mention the defaults for scale_ fuctions which are 150 (probably too high, gives some funky returns, particularly in their sampleoutput) except for hit which is done using -100.

There's a comment that links to another comment in Graylo's blog which has some further settings for figuring out stat weights, like putting on center_scale_weights which takes your scale value for that stat and goes up and down halfway on our current stat. It takes twice as long to run but is more indicative of the average level of benefit for your current stat level. I personally like using 50 rating for the step values, the variance was really low (within 1-2%) on the dozen or so test runs I did with 10k iterations and there were never any outlandish results like with larger step values.

Simulationcraft is actually pretty powerful, I think a lot of the reason why people don't use it is they're not sure how and it's not as easy as plugging in your unbuffed stats or getting an immediate return on.

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Old 10/17/09, 3:21 PM   #272
Caelwynar
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Sisters of Elune
As I took a closer look at the workings of Bink's spreadsheet and the Rawr elemental module's source code, I was surprised to see that both of their models apparently only cover the duration of a single flame shock. I don't know if that causes their stat weights to be less reliable than simcraft, but I would tend to trust the program that models an entire fight. I know that when I'm raiding, I often come across situations where my flame shock would end before Lava Burst finished casting, so I need to decide between clipping the final DoT tick or delaying the next LvB cast (I clip the DoT, personally). It looks to me like neither Rawr nor SEIC were taking those bumps in the rotation into account, but simcraft might.

Rawr and SEIC were much more user-friendly, but I think I'll be using simcraft from now on.

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Old 10/18/09, 1:37 PM   #273
Lord Helmchen
Von Kaiser
 
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Troll Shaman
 
Gul'dan (EU)
That's the difference between model and simulation. In the model we assume that you recast the FS before the LvB, because it is a very good estimate.

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Old 10/18/09, 5:23 PM   #274
bone123
Glass Joe
 
Troll Shaman
 
Tirion (EU)
Originally Posted by Binkenstein View Post
Spreadsheet = dead. I'm not continuing it, do with it what you will.
hm i can't attach the file. so here the last version which is no longer available in his blog:
SEIC_3.2.2_r20.1.xls

anybody else may upload it as an attachment

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Old 10/19/09, 3:38 AM   #275
Moshne
Bald Bull
 
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Pandaren Shaman
 
Whisperwind
I'm going to play with the sheet a bit later in the week when I find some time. Once I'm confident I've got it up to date I'll get it rehosted.

While I'm at it, if there is anything that you feel might be useful in it, let me know and I'll see what I can do. I can't make any promises though.

<Something Wicked> - 10/13 HM -25m - W/Th/Sun 8-12 CST LF Healer
www.somethingwickedguild.com

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Old 10/19/09, 4:21 AM   #276
MightRecruitment
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Turalyon
One thing I've always thought was notably lacking from it was the ability to show DPS/stat scaling while using Searing/Magma instead of assuming ToW.

May be somewhat tricky to add in a precise way, though.

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Old 10/19/09, 10:10 AM   #277
Zamir
Piston Honda
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Shadowsong (EU)
The setting for Thundering Strikes doesn't seem to have any effect on the most recent version of the spreadsheet. Simple enough to fix (append +M21/100 to the end of E6).

Last edited by Zamir : 10/19/09 at 10:19 AM.

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Old 10/20/09, 2:32 AM   #278
Gamaron
Glass Joe
 
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Tauren Shaman
 
Bloodscalp (EU)
What I would like to see it an option to select what trinkets you are using, and somehow take trinkets into account when calculating DPS. Would help me decide if it's worth swapping trinkets, especially if it's a hit trinket, which means you often need to regem or even change some other items around to make you stay above the cap.

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Old 10/20/09, 5:27 PM   #279
Caelwynar
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Sisters of Elune
I tinkered around with the spreadsheet a bit this morning, adding the thundering strikes fix mentioned above, and expanding on the Trinkets section a bit to address some of what Gamaron mentioned. The "Effective" column takes into account your current hit rating and buffs as entered in the other sections. If you're, say, 50 points below 17%, the Effective column will reflect a value only giving credit for that 50 hit rating from each trinket.

If you set "Equipped" next to a trinket to 1, it will have its value added to the DPS cells for you.

This works fine for evaluating a single trinket with hit, but gets a little wierd if you're trying to evaluate two hit trinkets at once, and the combination of the two would put you over the cap.

Whoever winds up taking over the spreadsheet in the long-term, feel free to incorporate these changes (or not) as you see fit. Other than the visible changes on the Current sheet, I added a few new cells to the EP sheet to keep the clutter off of Current, and updated the trinket table Sort macros to account for the fact that I moved those cells slightly and added the new column.

SEIC 3.2.2_Pahvel_102009

Edit: Thought occurred to me as I was driving home. If you really want to use the feature that adds a trinket's effective DEP to your DPS total, make sure you haven't included that trinket's permanent stats when you entered them (ie, enter your stat totals as they are without any trinkets equipped), or you wind up getting double credit for that particular stat.

Last edited by Caelwynar : 10/20/09 at 7:08 PM.

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Old 10/21/09, 3:34 AM   #280
Zuathar
Glass Joe
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Defias Brotherhood (EU)
Binkenstein - thanks for all your work in past 2, 3 years! you helped a lot the whole elemental community in all this period, thanks man.

Caelwynar - I like your changes, are very welcome, keep it up! The trinket change is simply excellent.

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Old 10/21/09, 4:54 AM   #281
freegod725
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Bonechewer
so where will new updates go? or should i just stay tuned at this thread?

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Old 10/21/09, 9:07 AM   #282
tarrick
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Shaman
 
Lightning's Blade
Originally Posted by Gamaron View Post
What I would like to see it an option to select what trinkets you are using, and somehow take trinkets into account when calculating DPS. Would help me decide if it's worth swapping trinkets, especially if it's a hit trinket, which means you often need to regem or even change some other items around to make you stay above the cap.
You can always add the trinket bonus into your stats manually and then use different stats for two different gearing setups to compare.

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Old 10/21/09, 1:46 PM   #283
 masanbol
Space Goats Coast to Coast
 
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Origins
Draenei Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Caelwynar View Post
I tinkered around with the spreadsheet a bit this morning, adding the thundering strikes fix mentioned above, and expanding on the Trinkets section a bit to address some of what Gamaron mentioned. The "Effective" column takes into account your current hit rating and buffs as entered in the other sections. If you're, say, 50 points below 17%, the Effective column will reflect a value only giving credit for that 50 hit rating from each trinket.

If you set "Equipped" next to a trinket to 1, it will have its value added to the DPS cells for you.

This works fine for evaluating a single trinket with hit, but gets a little wierd if you're trying to evaluate two hit trinkets at once, and the combination of the two would put you over the cap.

Whoever winds up taking over the spreadsheet in the long-term, feel free to incorporate these changes (or not) as you see fit. Other than the visible changes on the Current sheet, I added a few new cells to the EP sheet to keep the clutter off of Current, and updated the trinket table Sort macros to account for the fact that I moved those cells slightly and added the new column.

SEIC 3.2.2_Pahvel_102009

Edit: Thought occurred to me as I was driving home. If you really want to use the feature that adds a trinket's effective DEP to your DPS total, make sure you haven't included that trinket's permanent stats when you entered them (ie, enter your stat totals as they are without any trinkets equipped), or you wind up getting double credit for that particular stat.
Pahvel, would there be any way to have the static stat values from trinkets be added to the "buffs" column when they are selected? This way we get correct DEP values for those stats (once we subtract them from our character sheet values so as not to double-dip).

Also, adding engineering glove enchants to this spreadsheet at some point would be fantastic.


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Old 10/21/09, 4:53 PM   #284
Caelwynar
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Sisters of Elune
Originally Posted by masanbol View Post
Pahvel, would there be any way to have the static stat values from trinkets be added to the "buffs" column when they are selected? This way we get correct DEP values for those stats (once we subtract them from our character sheet values so as not to double-dip).
That's certainly possible, but would involve maintaining more detailed information about each trinket somewhere, instead of just a simple formula cell for each. I'm not sure the benefit there would be worth the maintenance effort. The DEP values should show up correctly if you add the stats to your character sheet (though the DPS cell would be thrown off, the new trinket stuff I added doesn't affect the model / DEP calculations at all).

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Old 10/21/09, 8:54 PM   #285
Schmylie
Glass Joe
 
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Troll Shaman
 
Aman'Thul
Originally Posted by Zuathar View Post
Binkenstein - thanks for all your work in past 2, 3 years! you helped a lot the whole elemental community in all this period, thanks man.
I've had limited time to check here recently, and couldn't get to Bink's blog...

Say it aint so ! (I'm searching through here to see what he's doing, I notice the change on his avatar)...

Kia Kaha Bink!

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