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Old 03/17/09, 4:43 PM   #101
Xiar
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Burning Legion
Pretty sure the only class a mage can put it on and guarentee themselves 100% uptime for themselves is elementals.

So it's 3% for us and them with 100% uptime if the mage picks an elemental for it.

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Old 03/17/09, 8:58 PM   #102
Shiyo
Von Kaiser
 
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Tauren Shaman
 
Gurubashi
Originally Posted by Xiar View Post
Pretty sure the only class a mage can put it on and guarentee themselves 100% uptime for themselves is elementals.

So it's 3% for us and them with 100% uptime if the mage picks an elemental for it.
It's possible, but unlikely that a caster will go 10 seconds without a crit. If there's more than one mage, they'll usually put them on each other anyway.

I'm pretty good at parroting others and doing simple algebra.

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Old 03/18/09, 7:15 AM   #103
tufy
Don Flamenco
 
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Nathaira
Draenei Shaman
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by Hoochiemami View Post
I am not sure if this is worth its own thread or not, but it would seem like focus magic would be an interesting buff to do some research on. Bink, have you done any number crunching on how much DPS we would gain compared to the other classes out there? I looked in the mage forums and saw nothing about FM. I know our mages buff each other with it, as a "If you boost my DPS, I'll boost yours".
I've been wondering this myself, so I've ran a few numbers. General rule of a thumb is: if you have frostfire mage in raid, he should get it, as his gain from the buff is pretty impressive and they tend to have high crit gear themselves. If you don't, put it on boomkin or elemental shaman, former for his tiny bit greater bonus or later for a tiny bit more assured uptime, but the end result is too small to matter.

Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.

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Old 03/18/09, 7:41 AM   #104
lrdx
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
It's possible, but unlikely that a caster will go 10 seconds without a crit. If there's more than one mage, they'll usually put them on each other anyway.
If a non-ele shaman caster has 50% crit rate, there is still 1.5% of not critting 6 times in a row (that is 10 seconds with 1.66 average cast time). Also, on average that caster will have to cast twice (1/50%) to get the buff on the mage back, meaning 3.33 sec (2*1.66) downtime. So the overall average up chanse is: uptime / (uptime + downtime) = 97.5%*10s / (1.5%*3.33s + 97.5%*10s) = 99.95%

The elemental shaman Provides 0.05% more uptime. It should be well under the difference of an another mage's and the ele shaman's DPS boost from 3%.

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Old 03/18/09, 12:36 PM   #105
MatsT
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Frostmane (EU)
Originally Posted by lrdx View Post
If a non-ele shaman caster has 50% crit rate, there is still 1.5% of not critting 6 times in a row (that is 10 seconds with 1.66 average cast time). Also, on average that caster will have to cast twice (1/50%) to get the buff on the mage back, meaning 3.33 sec (2*1.66) downtime. So the overall average up chanse is: uptime / (uptime + downtime) = 97.5%*10s / (1.5%*3.33s + 97.5%*10s) = 99.95%

The elemental shaman Provides 0.05% more uptime. It should be well under the difference of an another mage's and the ele shaman's DPS boost from 3%.
Your math is very flawed. the uptime will be more like 98.5%. At any point in time you can look at the chance that the other caster failed to crit any of his 6 last spells, which is 0.5^6 ~1.5% assuming 1.66 sec casting time. 2 sec casting time gives 97% uptime, 2.5 sec casting time gives 94% uptime. In all of these cases, a much bigger deciding factor will be the other persons benefit from crit .

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Old 03/18/09, 6:04 PM   #106
Shiyo
Von Kaiser
 
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Tauren Shaman
 
Gurubashi
Originally Posted by lrdx View Post
If a non-ele shaman caster has 50% crit rate, there is still 1.5% of not critting 6 times in a row (that is 10 seconds with 1.66 average cast time). Also, on average that caster will have to cast twice (1/50%) to get the buff on the mage back, meaning 3.33 sec (2*1.66) downtime. So the overall average up chanse is: uptime / (uptime + downtime) = 97.5%*10s / (1.5%*3.33s + 97.5%*10s) = 99.95%

The elemental shaman Provides 0.05% more uptime. It should be well under the difference of an another mage's and the ele shaman's DPS boost from 3%.
I think the point of a mage putting it on another mage is so that they'll put focus magic on you, not another caster with higher uptime. Buff collusion

I'm pretty good at parroting others and doing simple algebra.

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Old 03/26/09, 5:59 PM   #107
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Khaz'goroth
3.1.0.11: Changed rotation calculations (mostly to fix a flaw in my rotation logic), added more 3.1 changes, set bonuses and trinkets


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Old 03/27/09, 1:57 PM   #108
SoNoFu
Von Kaiser
 
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Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
I noticed the rotation selection is gone. Does it default to Priority or Priority +?

(e) Nevermind, I see.

I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out. - B. Hicks

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Old 03/28/09, 6:20 PM   #109
Fokui
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Scilla
I noticed an error in the trinket section for Living Flame. Unless it changed on the PTR and if it has I apologize.
On wowhead it says:
Equip: Improves hit rating by 107 (4.08% @ L80).
Use: Increases spell power by 505 for 20 sec. (2 Min Cooldown)

Well your current formula rates it at 487 DEP for my stats but looking at the formula makes me think its flawed
dephit*107+depspell*(505*20/45) is what is currently there.

Should it not be dephit*107+depspell*(505*20/120) since its a use trinket with a 2minute cooldown rather than an on equip trinket? At that setting it drops it to 295 DEP.

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Old 03/31/09, 5:05 PM   #110
Skah
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Skywall
I ran a dps comparison between 3.0.9.9 and 3.1.0.11 versions of the SEIC spreadsheet and dps is going down by about 600 in 3.1 with my current elemental stats below, which is an 11% dps decline. Is our dps getting nerfed that badly in 3.1 or is the 3.1 version still a work-in-progress?

Stam 958
Int 932
Spell 1971
Hit 289
Crit 499
Haste 565
mp5 136


Also, how should trinkets get accounted for in the SEIC spreadsheet? For example, I have [Illustration of the Dragon Soul] so should I add 200 SP to my base SP? Thanks.

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Old 04/01/09, 3:59 AM   #111
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Khaz'goroth
Well, if you go and look at all the other changes that are going on in 3.1, you'll see that there are other changes that may result in that decrease. Trinkets you can just use common sense and add them to your flat values.


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Old 04/01/09, 12:35 PM   #112
Skah
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Skywall
Spent some more time comparing the differences between the 3.1 and 3.09 versions and noticed that 3.1 does not have an option for Flametongue weapon imbue, which meant I was missing 274 SP. I added that in and the dps decrease significantly reduced, only a 3% DPS decrease now.

If you want to keep the spreadsheet similar to 3.09, I'd suggest adding Flametongue to the buffs section. Not a big deal because you can just add it to your base SP, but would be nice to have it consistent with previous versions. I also noticed that Totem of Wrath glyph option does not seem to be functioning.

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Old 04/16/09, 3:35 AM   #113
Binkenstein
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Draenei Shaman
 
Khaz'goroth
Minor changes for r12, but added a calculator for the ToW/Lava question: rough figure = 4000 spellpower is the break even point.


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Old 04/17/09, 2:19 PM   #114
Jezele
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Scarlet Crusade
I noticed that the haste EP value has changed from when you reported these values in the PTR thread (it's now 1.135, which is barely above crit rather than being close to SP's value). Was this due to a calculation change?

Also, there is an error in the Pawnelemental() macro. The second line currently reads:
Range("L4:LM5").Select
I believe it should be:
Range("L4:L5").Select

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Old 04/17/09, 6:15 PM   #115
Dememor
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Nathrezim
I'm curious if the math on the elemental focus stone: Elemental Focus Stone - Item - World of Warcraft is based on the haste or spell power version.

Currently on live it's apparently HASTE not spellpower although the tooltip does say Spellpower.

Last edited by Dememor : 04/17/09 at 6:23 PM.

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Old 04/17/09, 7:54 PM   #116
Binkenstein
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Draenei Shaman
 
Khaz'goroth
The value of haste changes with your latency. Macro fixed.


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Old 04/18/09, 10:08 AM   #117
Warsur
Glass Joe
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Dun Modr (EU)
I think there's an error with hit value. If you decrease hit in your stats to get a value under 17%, total dps and dephit are not changing.

Tested with Openoffice and Excel 2007, macros on.

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Old 04/18/09, 11:00 AM   #118
Jezele
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by Warsur View Post
If you decrease hit in your stats to get a value under 17%, total dps and dephit are not changing.
I believe this is by design. Technically, the EP value of hit once you've reached the cap is 0, since no more hit will improve your DPS. Instead, it still displays a positive value, telling you how much hit is worth if you were not capped. This allows you to compare items that have different hit values when trying to mix and match which pieces you're going to use to reach hit cap.

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Old 04/18/09, 1:05 PM   #119
Warsur
Glass Joe
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Dun Modr (EU)
Ok if you are over the hit cap but you don't do the same dps with 0% hit than with 17%. Dephit should be different as well.

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Old 04/18/09, 5:40 PM   #120
Binkenstein
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Draenei Shaman
 
Khaz'goroth
Originally Posted by Warsur View Post
Ok if you are over the hit cap but you don't do the same dps with 0% hit than with 17%. Dephit should be different as well.
Managing the hit cap is something I have not put in, and have no intention of doing. There are hit inclusive and exclusive lootrank/wowhead links available to use as well.


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Old 04/19/09, 8:51 AM   #121
Warsur
Glass Joe
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Dun Modr (EU)
Perfect. What about priority rotation? Any plans to bring it back?

By the way, thank you very much Binkenstein. There are many better elementals out there because of your hard work.

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Old 04/19/09, 5:29 PM   #122
Binkenstein
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Draenei Shaman
 
Khaz'goroth
Originally Posted by Warsur View Post
Perfect. What about priority rotation? Any plans to bring it back?

By the way, thank you very much Binkenstein. There are many better elementals out there because of your hard work.
No. I'm fairly certain I've mentioned this before


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Old 04/20/09, 7:54 AM   #123
Warsur
Glass Joe
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Dun Modr (EU)
I read it but I suppose that I misunderstood.

Sorry about that.

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Old 04/20/09, 12:26 PM   #124
clanofmiller
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Todeswache (EU)
v 3.1.0.12

Total mana = 4396+(INT-20)*15+20 -- not that this really matters at this moment. You are not including buffs from food/elixirs for stamina (irrelevant), int, haste.

The values I'm to type in the green fields come from paper doll completely unbuffed, are those fixed values in totals for stats the 'naked' lvl 80 values? Or am I assuming wrong? Are you not double counting buffs from anc. knowledge (total int vs. paper doll frame), crit rating (thundering strikes), mana regen from water shield?

A quick question, you calculate EM crit contribution over the duration of the CD of non/glyphed versions, however, say the combat lasted the default 3 mins and you are glyphed for EM (yeah, right), would it make sense to use 0.15*15*EM segments/fight duration=avg EM crit contribution?

-- EDIT --
water shield =/= mana shield

Last edited by clanofmiller : 04/21/09 at 5:53 AM.

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Old 04/20/09, 5:56 PM   #125
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Khaz'goroth
Fixed Int, Crit (was doing some double counting of AK, and adding TS on), mp5 didn't include WS. Not sure where you're getting that total mana calc from though.

I figure using an average bonus for EM is better, as you may or may not get 2 uses off in a 3.5 min fight.


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