Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Shamans

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03/06/09, 12:51 PM   #91
Trolando
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Arathor (EU)
It might be interesting to implement cooldowns for lava burst and flame shock, a fixed rotation with 1 lightning bolt gives skyhigh dps, yummie.

Also, it might be worthwhile to round the amount of lightning bolts cast in the "priority" styles up or down (depending on whether you want to wait for Lava Burst to become available, or rather finish the cast and lose a bit of Lava Burst / Flame Shock efficiency). After all, you can't cast a partial lightning bolt.

Offline
Old 03/06/09, 4:49 PM   #92
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
Binkenstein's Avatar
 
Pandaren Shaman
 
Saurfang
1) I'm not going to idiot proof it. If you want to use it with one LB, go ahead.
2) The priority system is saying "here's the maximum possible rotation" and going on the assumption that the average LB:FS ratio of the fight will be X.

www.totemspot.com The Shaman Community Site - My blog

Totemspot Guides includes Ele & Enh guides for Mists

New Zealand Offline
Old 03/06/09, 5:18 PM   #93
Trolando
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Arathor (EU)
Regarding 1, well, maybe if I were to insert 4 or 5 lightning bolts, I might go under the CD by a second or so. Will you call everyone with tons of haste who tries to insert a rotation with 4 lightning bolts, an idiot? For the record, I used the "1 lightning bolt per cycle" example just to make the point clear that a few extra checks might be useful. Not everyone realizes they are looking at bad results when they play around with the spreadsheet. You can't expect that from everyone.

Regarding 2, I would say it is fairly obvious that the average LB:FS ratio won't be X, but will be ceil(X) or floor(X), simply because good players tend to stick with a decision, instead of make a different one every other cycle. If you always cast the extra lightning bolt, it will be ceil(X). If you always wait for the Lava Burst cooldown to pop up when it is nearly done, it will be floor(X).
Some playing around with my own calculations suggests that finishing casts (ceil(X)) gives more dps. But feel free to ignore me. I'm just a minor person who doesn't even have a lvl80 shammy. And I don't really mind what you do with your own spreadsheet. I probably suck at constructive criticism as well.

Last edited by Trolando : 03/06/09 at 5:29 PM.

Offline
Old 03/06/09, 7:21 PM   #94
Jezele
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Scarlet Crusade
Sarcasm aside, the idea of using a floor() and ceiling() for the expected DPS values would actually be useful in knowing whether you should cast one more LB or not (I wouldn't bother using it in any of the other calculations, since you'd effectively need to calculate everything twice). I'm assuming that for some value of time left, it's better to wait, although most have shown that continuous casting produces better results, at least in real-world scenarios.

Offline
Old 03/06/09, 10:43 PM   #95
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
Binkenstein's Avatar
 
Pandaren Shaman
 
Saurfang
I have no intention of replicating haste work within SEIC, nor automating it so that it's fool-proof. That said, I do have some graphs & work to be added to the TTT entry soon re: haste

www.totemspot.com The Shaman Community Site - My blog

Totemspot Guides includes Ele & Enh guides for Mists

New Zealand Offline
Old 03/11/09, 1:53 AM   #96
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
Binkenstein's Avatar
 
Pandaren Shaman
 
Saurfang
3.1.0.10: Rebuilt Talents/Buffs/Debuffs system to be on the main page, 3.1 changes (so far), and the damage/mana evaluations for talents are on the EP tab (It's not very tidy/well presented, but it's there if you want to look at it)
Updates ahoy.

www.totemspot.com The Shaman Community Site - My blog

Totemspot Guides includes Ele & Enh guides for Mists

New Zealand Offline
Old 03/12/09, 7:05 AM   #97
Firehand
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Mage
 
Dunemaul (EU)
Great spreadsheet Binkenstein, been using it for while. Just noticed one little thing about newest one, while you can choose Glyph of Totem of Wrath, it doesn't give bonus spell damage to buffs part. It's ofc easy for everyone to fix but just wanted to mention.

Offline
Old 03/12/09, 4:03 PM   #98
Hoochiemami
Glass Joe
 
Hoochiemami's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Thunderhorn
Focus Magic

I am not sure if this is worth its own thread or not, but it would seem like focus magic would be an interesting buff to do some research on. Bink, have you done any number crunching on how much DPS we would gain compared to the other classes out there? I looked in the mage forums and saw nothing about FM. I know our mages buff each other with it, as a "If you boost my DPS, I'll boost yours".

Offline
Old 03/12/09, 5:38 PM   #99
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
Binkenstein's Avatar
 
Pandaren Shaman
 
Saurfang
Originally Posted by Hoochiemami View Post
I am not sure if this is worth its own thread or not, but it would seem like focus magic would be an interesting buff to do some research on. Bink, have you done any number crunching on how much DPS we would gain compared to the other classes out there? I looked in the mage forums and saw nothing about FM. I know our mages buff each other with it, as a "If you boost my DPS, I'll boost yours".
Probably a question for the mages to be honest. It's in the sheet, so that should give you the elemental figure, but given the crit scaling for Elemental, it's probably better to use on other classes.

www.totemspot.com The Shaman Community Site - My blog

Totemspot Guides includes Ele & Enh guides for Mists

New Zealand Offline
Old 03/13/09, 12:19 PM   #100
Jezele
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by Binkenstein View Post
Given the crit scaling for Elemental, it's probably better to use on other classes.
The biggest advantage of putting this spell on us isn't how it affects our DPS, but because our LvB crits guarantee a 100% uptime for the mage. Whether this balances out the couple of extra DPS the raid gains by having another class with the 3% crit buff at the expense of <100% buff for the mage is hard to say, but I suspect it's not an overwhelming difference either way.

Offline
Old 03/17/09, 3:43 PM   #101
Xiar
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Burning Legion
Pretty sure the only class a mage can put it on and guarentee themselves 100% uptime for themselves is elementals.

So it's 3% for us and them with 100% uptime if the mage picks an elemental for it.

Offline
Old 03/17/09, 7:58 PM   #102
Shiyo
Von Kaiser
 
Shiyo's Avatar
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Gurubashi
Originally Posted by Xiar View Post
Pretty sure the only class a mage can put it on and guarentee themselves 100% uptime for themselves is elementals.

So it's 3% for us and them with 100% uptime if the mage picks an elemental for it.
It's possible, but unlikely that a caster will go 10 seconds without a crit. If there's more than one mage, they'll usually put them on each other anyway.

I'm pretty good at parroting others and doing simple algebra.

Offline
Old 03/18/09, 6:15 AM   #103
tufy
Don Flamenco
 
tufy's Avatar
 
Nathaira
Draenei Shaman
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by Hoochiemami View Post
I am not sure if this is worth its own thread or not, but it would seem like focus magic would be an interesting buff to do some research on. Bink, have you done any number crunching on how much DPS we would gain compared to the other classes out there? I looked in the mage forums and saw nothing about FM. I know our mages buff each other with it, as a "If you boost my DPS, I'll boost yours".
I've been wondering this myself, so I've ran a few numbers. General rule of a thumb is: if you have frostfire mage in raid, he should get it, as his gain from the buff is pretty impressive and they tend to have high crit gear themselves. If you don't, put it on boomkin or elemental shaman, former for his tiny bit greater bonus or later for a tiny bit more assured uptime, but the end result is too small to matter.

Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.

Slovenia Offline
Old 03/18/09, 6:41 AM   #104
lrdx
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
It's possible, but unlikely that a caster will go 10 seconds without a crit. If there's more than one mage, they'll usually put them on each other anyway.
If a non-ele shaman caster has 50% crit rate, there is still 1.5% of not critting 6 times in a row (that is 10 seconds with 1.66 average cast time). Also, on average that caster will have to cast twice (1/50%) to get the buff on the mage back, meaning 3.33 sec (2*1.66) downtime. So the overall average up chanse is: uptime / (uptime + downtime) = 97.5%*10s / (1.5%*3.33s + 97.5%*10s) = 99.95%

The elemental shaman Provides 0.05% more uptime. It should be well under the difference of an another mage's and the ele shaman's DPS boost from 3%.

Offline
Old 03/18/09, 11:36 AM   #105
MatsT
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Frostmane (EU)
Originally Posted by lrdx View Post
If a non-ele shaman caster has 50% crit rate, there is still 1.5% of not critting 6 times in a row (that is 10 seconds with 1.66 average cast time). Also, on average that caster will have to cast twice (1/50%) to get the buff on the mage back, meaning 3.33 sec (2*1.66) downtime. So the overall average up chanse is: uptime / (uptime + downtime) = 97.5%*10s / (1.5%*3.33s + 97.5%*10s) = 99.95%

The elemental shaman Provides 0.05% more uptime. It should be well under the difference of an another mage's and the ele shaman's DPS boost from 3%.
Your math is very flawed. the uptime will be more like 98.5%. At any point in time you can look at the chance that the other caster failed to crit any of his 6 last spells, which is 0.5^6 ~1.5% assuming 1.66 sec casting time. 2 sec casting time gives 97% uptime, 2.5 sec casting time gives 94% uptime. In all of these cases, a much bigger deciding factor will be the other persons benefit from crit .

Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Shamans

Thread Tools