Rouncer

12/16/08 Going back to a single average of of 40% uptime for berzerker and mongoose. Please use the sim to determine a more accurate value of the various enchants for your specific stats.


KT just died and you find yourself with a brand new [Calamity's Grasp] for your mainhand. You bounce around Dalaran showing it off to everyone when you get the question;

"what enchant are you going to put on it?"

Used to be a very simple to answer that one, mongoose, but now it is a little more complicated. There are several new weapon enchants that look promising and many that look pretty bad and then there is the issue of whether Mongoose scales properly at level 80 and if it is worth hunting for those old mats.

This thread is for discussion and theorycraft relating to those Weapon enchants and how well they work for Enhancement.


Lets start with a set of EP values that we are going to use to analyze the various enchants.

Attack Power = 1 = 0.55dps
Crit Rating = 1.7
Haste Rating = 1.5
Agility = 1.7
Intellect = 1.3
Strength = 1.1
Spellpower = 1
Hit (before spell cap) = 3.2
Hit (after spell cap but before duel wield cap) = 1.6
Expertise (before dodge cap) = 2.6

These values are based on my current stats and on the trends I've seen from running the Sim from SWP gear through to my current gear. For more accurate values relating to your specific gear, please feel free to utilize the Sim for yourself as this is meant more as a general guideline.


Mongoose
Proc for 120 agility and 2% haste. Stacks if both weapons are imbued. Proc mechanic thought to be set to 1 PPM. Works out to approximately 40% uptime (based on WWSs). Does not appear to scale down with level. 2% haste = 65.58 haste rating. So each proc should be worth (65.58 x haste EP) + (120 x agility EP) = 302.4 EP. So it should be worth 121EP.


Berzerking
Darling child of Vrykul/Norse mythology, this enchant gives you 400 attack power in exchange for 5% of your armor when it procs. Does stack if used on both weapons. Proc mechanic is reported to mirror mongoose (and current findings appear to validate that model) so it should have approximately a 40% uptime. 400AP = 400EP. So that would make it worth 160EP.

Superior Potency
Adds 65AP = 65EP

Mighty Spellpower
Adds 63 spellpower = 63EP

Black Magic
I had very high hopes for this enchant. 50% chance to place a DoT on the target of any damaging spell cast. The DoT does ~220 damage every 3 seconds for 15 seconds or 73.3dps while active. Problem is the enchant appears to have a 45 second cooldown. Which means that in the best case, where you gain a proc the instant it comes off cooldown, it will have a 33% uptime. 73.3 x 0.33 = 24.2dps or 44EP.

Ice Breaker
Upgraded Fiery enchant. Chance for Fire damage. Playing with the Targeting Dummy I had this enchant as worth 19.4dps or 35.3EP

Executioner
Removes 840 armor when it procs, one of the only things that wasn't converted to Armor Penetration Rating. Too bad it doesn't make it any good. Armor values on Bosses has basically doubled from 70 to 80 while this has stayed static. According to the Sim it has about half of the effect of Mongoose and since it basically has the same mats as Mongoose I can't recommend this enchant. (would love to give real values but it's almost lunch time and any desire to do that much math is superseded by a desire for a sandwich)

Titanium Weapon Chain
Cheap and amazing for PvP. 28 hit rating works out to 89.6EP if you are below the spell hit cap and 44.8EP if you are over it. Not a bad option for a transitory weapon or for one that you may want to use for PvP as well.

Accuracy
If you have made it to the end of the list you are about to be rewarded. This enchant has potential to be very good, especially as an offhand enchant. It gives 25 hit and crit rating. If you are under the spell hit cap (taking this enchant into account) then it is worth (3.2 x 25) + (1.7 x 25) = 122.5EP. If you are over the spell hit cap then it is worth (1.6 x 25) + (1.7 x 25) = 82.5EP.


So it's looking like Berzerker really is the best option to use on at least one, if not both, of your weapons. However unless you have separate weapons for PvP that debuff is going to hurt a little bit (400AP versus giving every melee the equivalent of 77 Armor Penetration Rating) and may not be the best option for high ranked Arena play. Mongoose is a great second choice and if you can use Accuracy to just hit the spell hit cap it's a great option as well. Personally my Calamity's Grasp is wearing Zerker since with the 3.0.8 changes to the enchant the penalty has become more acceptable for regular use.

Please remember to always use the Sim to determine the true value for any of the enchant options.

 

Nevets_69

That is very interesting. Just from intuition I was leaning strongly towards dual Berzerker. Very interesting that Accuracy is worth so much, even after the hit cap.

After reading this, I think I'll definitely be using Accuracy on [Calamity's Grasp]. My major reason for doing this will be so that I can also use it in Arena. While I really like the Berzerker enchant, it obviously isn't a good choice for arena, and I'm not in a hurry to try and get two sets of weapons. As it is I'm going to have to have two different offhands.

Thanks for the info Rounced.

Elemental Shaman: You're OOM.
Enhancement Shaman: So are you.

 

MatsT

Your uptimes for the procced enchants are wrong. A procc with 1 ppm means it will be up for an average (not counting overwrites) 15/60 seconds per minuts. this in itself would indicate a 25% uptime. With flurry, instant attacks and windfury proccs added to that, a 40-50% uptime is more realistic.

 

Rouncer

Except that I used WWSs to determine the uptime.

Actually you are partially correct, I thought the proc was 10 seconds not 15, but that only takes it to 32.5% not to 40-50%. Correcting in the original post.

Alt mage - Rounce

 

Vesham

We are ofcourse going to use our own DEP values for the enchants correct? Because of the current gearing, I'm considering using Accuracy on my MH to bring myself to spell cap and use Berserking on my OH.

If Berserking is 1ppm with a 15s CD, then I'd assume it's about a static 100AP. So for a situation in which Accuracy is superior to Berserking would be:

25(Hit DEP) + 25 (Crit DEP) > 100

Hit DEP + Crit DEP > 4

I would assume this would only happen if you are below spell cap.

This does bring up a question I've been wondering about, though. If you can gem yourself to spell cap instead, would that be better than using the weapon enchant to bring yourself to spell cap and instead using those gems for different stats?

P.S I'm terrible with math, so please correct me if you see something seriously wrong or if you think my calculations are worthless altogether.

Elemental Mastery - Lightning Bolt - Die - Reincarnation - Lightning Bolt - Lightning Overload Procs - Die

 

Rhaegal

That depends on whether or not Accuracy will put you over the spell cap, or if it just brings you to it (or close enough as makes little difference). If you're considering using Accuracy to spell cap yourself, make sure that with gems and other enchants, you're no less than 25 rating from cap. If you are within 25, you should calculate a new EP value for the enchant like so:

Accuracy EP = (X)*[Pre-cap Accuracy EP] + (25 - X)*[Post-cap Accuracy EP]
where X = the rating difference between what you currently have and the spell cap.

Honestly though, I'd stay away from using this enchant to hit cap yourself if you're close, or foresee yourself being close in the near future. As you change other pieces of gear, that X term will vary, and you'll end up spending money regemming all your gear to keep Accuracy from shooting you way over the cap. I'm a much bigger fan of using expensive weapon enchants with a relatively constant value, like Berserking. This is partially why I never used Executioner pre-3.0--even though at times I had plenty of ArP on my gear to make it comparable, I didn't always have full -armor debuffs on the mobs in raids due to certain classes not always being present, and replacing some of my ArP gear with anything else would devalue Executioner further.

Stand back! I'm going to try SCIENCE!

 

Vernichter

At the point where a player can reliably maintain the spell hit and expertise caps by juggling gems, the effective value of those two stats becomes equivalent to the best alternative gem stat. Consider the following example:

Player X has enough expertise to match the 6.5% dodge rate of bosses without exclusively using expertise gems.
The best gem for his EP values also happens to be pure AP, and he has enough of the other stats such that he has already gemmed some slots with pure AP.

If he gets a new item that has no expertise and uses it to replace an item that has expertise, then he will drop below the cap; however, he could swap one of his pure AP gems for a gem with expertise. At that point, the opportunity cost would be equivalent to the budget of the gem and not to his personal EP values. As gems budget exp to AP at a 1 to 2 ratio, the value of expertise on item he would be replacing would be exactly 2 EP.

This principle also applies to the spell hit cap, and can definitely be used justify enchanting with Berzerk instead of Accuracy. It is important to note, though, that it only works reliably when you have plenty of margin over the caps and have enough gem slots to juggle the stats. The same argument applies to general gearing strategy. With expertise in particular, the ultimate goal should be to hit the cap in the most efficient way possible. The upside of hit rating is that although the value decreases when you go over the cap, it does not plummet to zero.

Edit: Sort of beaten, and I definitely agree with Rhaegal about the practical costs of enchanting to hit the cap.

 

Rouncer

Well just keep in mind that AP beats all other gem values once you hit the spell hit cap and the expertise cap so the same rule applies to gemming for hit.

Think about it this way if you are gemming hit and are below the expertise cap then Accuracy is a far better option then Berzerking since you can swap out 24 hit in gems for 24 expertise and 24 expertise is worth more then the difference between Berzerking and Accuracy.

If you can hit the spell hit cap without using any gems then go with zerking (or goose if you are like me and think that debuff makes zerking unusable). Once you start gemming for the hit cap (if you are not expertise capped at the same time) then Accuracy is a better option.

Alt mage - Rounce

 

Squidfury

A very cheap alternative for subpar weapons that you will replace relatively quickly, even if epic, is the [Titanium Weapon Chain]. Not amazing, but cheap and effective if not spell hit capped. 89.6 EP using Rounced listed values. It only requires 2 saronite bars and 1 titanium bar to make.

 

Rouncer

I am in love with that weapon enchant for PvP but I wouldn't use it for PvE, that said you do raise a very valid point so I will add it to the list (and thanks for doing the math for me ).

Alt mage - Rounce

 

Bart00

Actually Berserking does not have a cooldown, I use it on my MH and it reapplys itself a lot.

 

Rouncer

I never said it had a cooldown, I said if it functioned off the same mechanic as Mongoose (which is what has been reported) and it is well known that Mongoose can refresh itself.

Alt mage - Rounce

 

MatsT

How do you measure uptime from a WWS? Also, how do you make sure only the time you are attacking the target is counted?

 

Rouncer

Patchwerk is a great fight for measuring uptime.

Every time you get a proc it shows on the WWS so that number x 15 divided by the number of seconds in the fight spent attacking the mob.

WWS gives your percentage of time spent attacking the target so if not using Patchwerk it's not that hard to determine for certain boss fights. I wouldn't use a fight like Heigan but Loatheb or Gluth or Fearlina aren't bad to use either. For that uptime I just used a composite of patchwerk fights.

Alt mage - Rounce

 

Nevets_69

This will generally give you a lower value for uptime than you will see in game. If it tracks Berzerker procs anything like Flurry or UR, WWS won't acknowledge when the buff is refreshed before it expires.

i.e. you attack a mob for 1 minute, and the buff is up for a total of 25 seconds, because it refreshed itself. Using the above method it will look like a 25% uptime because WWS only saw 1 application. When it reality the uptime was more like 40%.

So if anything, then Rounced numbers are a conservative estimate, and Berzerker may be worth a little more than is indicated.

Elemental Shaman: You're OOM.
Enhancement Shaman: So are you.

 

Rouncer

Under the new combatlog refreshes are shown as well.

It does look like the parser only shows the refreshes when you scan the parsed file, correcting the list for the new uptime.

Alt mage - Rounce

 

hozzer

If I recall correctly, Mongoose can proc from a Windfury attack. It seems to me that this means that there would be a fair bit of disparity between the uptime on a weapon imbued with Windfury and one without. I think it is important to capture information about weapon imbues with any parses that are submitted.

 

Malan

I will shamelessly steal this info for the thinktank wiki once you think you've got the uptimes nailed down on the 'zerker enchant.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Rouncer

NOOOO!

(yah, feel free to steal it whenever you think it's ready)

Alt mage - Rounce

 

Exewut

This is actually a good point, there will be a difference between uptimes on both your weapons since lava lash procs enchants as well.

MH: PPM*1.4 + PPM/60*weaponspeed*(60/stormstrike cd)*1.4
OH (ft): PPM + PPM/60*weaponspeed*(60/stormstrike cd) + PPM/60*weaponspeed*(60/Lavalash cd)

(example with 2.6 weaponspeed)
MH: PPM*1.4 + PPM/60*2.6*(60/8)*1.4 = PPM (1.4 + .40444...) = 1.80444...*PPM
OH (ft): PPM + PPM/60*2.6*(60/8) + PPM/60*2.6*(60/6) = PPM (1 + .2888... + .4333...) = 1.7222...*PPM

(due to the internal cd of wf the uptime on the MH will be a bit lower than the value reported here since not exactly 20% of the hits will proc a wf swing)

 

panny

Are these updated uptimes for the MH or OH? Seeing as most run WF/FT, and with Lava Lash, there might be some differences for each hand.

 

Pitbuller

From Tukez sim:
WF mainhand mongoose uptime: 33.61%
FT off-hand mongoose uptime: 31.79%

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

 

MatsT

I guess something like 33% is a good number to count with then. Should mean something like 134 AEP on mainhand and 127 AEP on offhand. Puts it slightly ahead of accuracy before you reach the spellhit cap, and significantly ahead after you do.

So in conclusion, for PvE always go with dual Berserking if you can afford it and superior potency or weapon chain if you can't. Accuracy is a bit expensive to be used as a "cheap enchant" until you get the best weapons. In PvP you might possibly want to go with weapon chain/accuracy, but considering you will probably have no problem whatsoever to cap spellhit here, you might actually be better off with weapon chain/mongoose.

Rounced: Is it possible to add Deathfrost to the list just for comparative purposes? I've been curious if it could be viable as a cheap enchant or when not raidbuffed due to proccing off both spells and melee.

 

Rouncer

I updated the list to reflect the mongoose uptime shown through the WWSs and I set Berzerker to the same level of uptime (still waiting for Patchwerk parses from people with berzerker to confirm the uptime since I refuse to touch that enchant on general principles).

Trust me, the 52% may be a bit on the conservative side already (sorry about the original estimate - didn't realize you needed to search the actual log for buff refreshes). Last night's Patchwerk parse I had a total of 25 mongoose procs in 3min33sec with dub goose. That would average out to a 59% uptime per enchant. I've also seen parses with only a 45% uptime so 52% seems like a fair estimate for the moment (I am also running with a lot of haste atm so that could be increasing my personal uptime).

As for mainhand versus offhand, keep in mind that the current theory is that Windfury hits can proc Mongoose/Berzerker so those should equivocate the values seen for mainhand versus offhand taking the bonus Lava Lash hits into account. If you would like to devise a test and determine more accurate numbers, please go right ahead and I will be happy to incorporate your findings but this is meant to be more of a general guideline before taking your gear to the Sim for more personally accurate results.


Deathfrost - I thought about trying to include that except they changed the snare so that it doesn't work on characters over level 73. With that in mind I would think that Ice Breaker would be a far superior enchant if you are just looking for some additional damage on the cheap (and a weapon chain would be a far better choice if PvP is involved).

Alt mage - Rounce

 

• Zyla

I would also point out for some of you out there that for certain fights, our ability to generate a ton of threat very quickly and take hits is immensely useful, for say Sartharion +3.

I tend to be quick to get to the portals when there is time and I can immediately start going balls out on the proper acolyte with Shamanistic Rage and Maelstrom, I can self maintain myself even in the 25 man until a healer gets down stars and by that point the mob will have a serious dent in it. Depending on how stretched your strategy for tanking is, you make a tremendous pinch hit tank for those downstairs adds, Adding Berserking to your weaponry removes this utility from yourself in a strongly negative way.

I'm sure for many of you this is not a real consideration, but with years of tanking in my blood, I tend to look out for my healers a lot on loose ads and can do a quick shock and SR to tank it enough till a real tank gets their hands on it. We're surprisingly durable, especially given all of the extra dodge we have now thanks to us using Agility based gear.

Just something to think about.

We don't use words like that...St. Louise is listening!