jonnaei

30% Uptime for 400 AP is 120 AP. 120 AP > 65 AP. You don't need to test it, simple math.

 

PhyerFly

Saw this in the new PTR notes for 3.0.8
Reduced the armor penalty granted by the Berserking weapon enchantment.
World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> PTR Patch 3.0.8 Notes

That sunder affect is what has made me stick with mongoose, but if they lower the armor reduction and it hits live servers I'll be one happy shaman spacegoat.

 

jonnaei

Indeed. It delayed my getting Berserker for a while as well as I'm the focused target in arenas 90% of the time. Just makes an already squishy shammy squishier.

Is there anyone with access to the PTR who could do some tests on what kind of armor redux we're looking at now?

 

Daenerys

I would think regardless of the amount, any sunder effect on us in arena is bad news given our bad survivability. I just use separate weapons for PvP due to DWing berzerker on my PvE weapons.

 

PhyerFly

I stay my blue ass out of the arena most of the time, but being a focused target unless they completely remove the armor reduction I still think a weapon chain + goose would be a safer bet.

EDIT:
Here's the new armor reduction value from mmo-champ
Enchant Weapon- Berserking now reduces your armor by 5%. (Down from 25%)

 

bithalver

This is one of the best news from the patch notes ! 25% armor reduction is / was a lot if you want to do any non-RAID activity, however 5% is IMHO bearable even with dual berserker enchant.

 

Skiace

I thought the whole point of the armor debuff was to push people away from using the enchant in PvP. Is -5% enough to do that still?

 

Mizerok

Sounds like it still might be, any kind of uncontrollable armor loss to a class that is already kinda soft is a bad thing.

 

PhyerFly

I don't think that 5% will make or break you in most PvP encounters, but if you're a serious arena player it probably would still matter. In any case where you're taking the kind of melee damage where 5% armor would matter you'd be swapping to a shield anyway.

Regardless, we've got bigger survivability issues that probably make this a moot point...but hooray for PvE usage and something else to spend my money on.

 

• Zyla

Having 10% less armor in pvp means you get to live approximately .000000000000000000000000000000000013 seconds shorter. Having that armor, all it really does is decrease the overkill number on the rogue's second mutilate.

We don't use words like that...St. Louise is listening!

 

Evidicus

Keep in mind as well that armor only benefits you against physical attacks, making it is useless against spells and spell effects, including many DK and Paladin abilities. On the other hand, the AP you get from Berserking will help you in every single encounter you face, PvE or PvP. Personally, I wouldn't let a minor armor debuff (post-patch) scare me away from dealing out as much pain as I can. This is especially true in the current PvP scene where burst DPS is the key to the vast majority of fights.

 

Rouncer

The other side to that coin is that Mongoose's proc also has some very nice defensive properties. Each proc should be worth ~2.3% dodge based of the info on Combat Ratings at level 80

Post patch Berzerker becomes a much more attractive enchant, I don't think anyone is in disagreement over that. 25% armor reduction was, to be blunt, retarded especially since it stacked. 5% armor reduction is much more reasonable and now it becomes a real choice for people who also happen to PvP with the same weapons. That's pretty much the end of the line for discussion on the topic in this thread since this thread is really meant to focus on the enchant's pure value in PvE.

If you want to discuss PvP options for weapon enchants then perhaps it would be worth starting another thread since enchants like the weapon chain and Black Magic have additional benefits that make them potentially more valuable then zerker when PvPing (Black Magic supposedly is not removed by CloS nor cleansed/dispelled so it may limit the ability to restealth which makes it worth considering for PvP).

Alt mage - Rounce

 

SentinelBorg

I would like to add, that now, that a very fast weapon like Webbed Death is generally considered to be the best off-hand, Accuracy can be valued on par with Berserking on your off-hand, if your hit-rating is under the spellhit-cap.

For example: My simulations show, that chardev.org - a World of Warcraft Character Planner - x (with Berserking and 20 Hit on gloves) is on par with chardev.org - a World of Warcraft Character Planner - x (with Accuracy and 44 AP on gloves).

 

Malan

What does that have to do with a fast weapon? That's always been the case.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Nevets_69

I think the idea is that fast weapons tend to have lower uptimes for Berserking. (Each instant attack having a lower chance to proc the enchant, etc.)

Elemental Shaman: You're OOM.
Enhancement Shaman: So are you.

 

Rouncer

There is some validity to that thought but the more compelling reason is that when you use a Fast weapon with Flametongue it's benefit from AP is decreased when compared to the benefit it obtains from Hit and Crit Rating.

Our offhand mechanics are pretty bad at the moment. They scale in bizarre ways and their scaling with certain stats conflicts with scaling with other stats.

Flametongue scales best with a fast weapon and off of spellpower, haste, crit rating, hit rating and expertise. It's scaling with AP and Agility is minimal.

Lava Lash scales best with a slow weapon and off of attackpower, crit rating, agility and expertise. It gains nothing from haste or hit rating (once you are past the melee specials cap of 8% or 2% with 3/3 Dual Wield Spec.).

So they conflict with each other and that is why it is so important to assume nothing and to simply Sim out everything especially if it has anything to do with your offhand.