[ELEMENTAL] Upcoming changes

nokomisa · 12/13/08, 11:44 AM

I took a gander at the PTR patch notes, and saw some things that interested me, but when the changes go through it may change the class mechanics quite a bit.
-New Talent:Shamanism- lightning bolt gets an additional 2%/4%/6%/8%/10% and lava burst gains an additional 4%/8%/12%/16%/20% of your bonus damage effects.
-Storm, Earth and Fire: Moved up in the tree, talent points reduced to 3 from 5, and wind shock is included in the range. Flame shock bonus damage increased to 20%/40%/60%.
-Unrelenting storm:Point cost reduced to 3 from 5, now does 4%/8%/12%.

At quick glance, this is great. Making LB do more damage should take away chain lightning on boss fights, and lava burst getting an additional 20% from bonus damage is great too, since it helps to fix the problem it gives us by not scaling with crit and devaluing haste. The extra flam shock damage is somewhat trivial, but the increased wind shock range is nice, no more pulling aggro. Finally, condensing talents will make for less points spent in useless talents. My question is how is this going to affect our dps? it will go up, obviously, but will we be able to compete with all the other casters now?

Mmootimus · 12/13/08, 11:54 AM

a) For gawd's sake at least try and avoid typo's in the thread title.
b) At least some theorycraft has already been done on these changes and how they will affect Ele DPS. Look around a little.
c) You are missing out this - World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Please answer Elemental Shaman concerns

Hopefully this won't get buried here.

Here is what we are thinking about to try on the PTR for Elemental:

Elemental Oath -- In addition to existing effects, now increases spell damage done by the Shaman by 5/10% while Elemental Focus Clearcasting is active.

Elemental Mastery -- Overhauled. Now increases the Shaman’s critical strike chance by 20% for 30 seconds. Cooldown remains 3 minutes. We recognize this might be a slight nerf in certain PvP situations where players relied on the shaman to nuke an injured person to death. Still, I'm betting most shamans will prefer the new design.

Glyph of Lightning Bolt -- No longer affects cost. Now increases damage by 4%.

nokomisa · 12/13/08, 12:37 PM

well, those aren't in the PTR patch notes right now, so until they are added they shouldn't be taken into consideration.

Binkenstein · 12/13/08, 5:08 PM

They were posted by Ghostcrawler. When we first heard about the current PTR changes, it was from him, so I'd say it's highly likely that they are accurate.

Graze · 12/13/08, 5:25 PM

Any thoughts on how good the Elemental Oath/Mastery changes might be? I'm afraid that the Oath buff will only work for any spells that lands when then buff if active, and only work on the first of the two charges and thus be very minor.

Elephantgun · 12/13/08, 6:13 PM

Originally Posted by Graze

Any thoughts on how good the Elemental Oath/Mastery changes might be? I'm afraid that the Oath buff will only work for any spells that lands when then buff if active, and only work on the first of the two charges and thus be very minor.

Doubtful. Considering how the Lavaburst mechanic and similar mechanics (Shatter, for instance) work, it'd be when the spell is released not when it lands.

Binkenstein · 12/13/08, 7:49 PM

Given that clearcasting uptimes are pretty high already, it should be fairly good. For example, a Patchwerk kill on the 3rd of Dec had a 60% CC uptime. My spreadsheet estimates a 89-91% uptime with the changes.

Also, it's probably important to note that back when ClearCasting was changed to the 2 charge system, it was a "nerf" at crit levels above a certain figure. I can't remember exactly what that figure was, but it was somewhere in the 50-60% range, which is somewhat attainable nowdays.

Ghando · 12/13/08, 8:14 PM

We'll absolutely pass that 50-60% mark with Elemental Mastery active. Obviously the proposed changes (20% more crit for 30 seconds) will make it a vast improvement over its current incarnation, but we have a buttload of crit already without adding 20% on top of that.

missiletoad · 12/13/08, 9:52 PM

I'm typically horrendous at math, hence why I just sit back and enjoy the theorycrafting that others do... but am I correct in thinking that the new Lightning Bolt glyph (4% more damage) will be better than the Flametongue Weapon glyph in all situations post-Shamanism addition, especially in single target situations?

Related random thought - whoever can get around to it first when glyph changes goes through, I'm curious if the LB one also increases LO procs.

Binkenstein · 12/13/08, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by missiletoad

I'm typically horrendous at math, hence why I just sit back and enjoy the theorycrafting that others do... but am I correct in thinking that the new Lightning Bolt glyph (4% more damage) will be better than the Flametongue Weapon glyph in all situations post-Shamanism addition, especially in single target situations?

Related random thought - whoever can get around to it first when glyph changes goes through, I'm curious if the LB one also increases LO procs.

Yes, it is, and it will.

The odd thing though is that Glyph of Flametongue is actually better than Glyph of Lava.

Eightythree · 12/14/08, 12:39 AM

So is CL now dead for single target DPS?

Agash · 12/14/08, 4:11 AM

Originally Posted by Eightythree

So is CL now dead for single target DPS?

Not quite dead yet. It will still give a minor DPS increase (though probably not worth the mana cost) but it's main use now is really to make things fit into that LvB CD.

I think the EM/EO change is great. 80-90% uptime on 10% increased damage with maybe 70% crits through most of the duration of a Bloodlust is going to be pretty effective.

Mmootimus · 12/14/08, 9:06 AM

Originally Posted by Binkenstein

Yes, it is, and it will.

The odd thing though is that Glyph of Flametongue is actually better than Glyph of Lava.

Could you explain how you came to this conclusion, or point me towards how I could work it out for myself using SEIC?

My own calculations estimate Glyph of Flametongue as equal to 43 sppower equivalent and Glyph of Lava at 84.

If I am using it correctly, according to SEIC Glyph of Flametongue is worth 49.2 DEP. How is Glyph of Lava worse less than this, when it is basically giving a 10% increase to Lava Burst damage on its own?

I don't mind being proved wrong and looking stupid, but I would like to understand your thinking.

Rouncer · 12/14/08, 12:02 PM

New issue - based on some limited PTR testing, they increased the damage of magma totem but the cap appears to be set incredibly low. Capped at 1554 damage with a base of 414 per tick and scaling set at 10% spellpower per tick. Is 1554 the current AE cap for Magma or is Magma totem supposed to start capping out at 3 mobs?

The no aggro component of the new totem is functioning though so that's a good thing.

Binkenstein · 12/14/08, 2:52 PM

Originally Posted by Mmootimus

Could you explain how you came to this conclusion, or point me towards how I could work it out for myself using SEIC?

My own calculations estimate Glyph of Flametongue as equal to 43 sppower equivalent and Glyph of Lava at 84.

If I am using it correctly, according to SEIC Glyph of Flametongue is worth 49.2 DEP. How is Glyph of Lava worse less than this, when it is basically giving a 10% increase to Lava Burst damage on its own?

I don't mind being proved wrong and looking stupid, but I would like to understand your thinking.

Lava is 10% more spellpower for Lava Burst, while Flametongue is 2% more crit. So even though the actual bonuses of each put Lava ahead, since we use LB more than LvB, FT comes out ahead.
Of course, Lava scales better with Spellpower, FT scales better with haste. To be completely honest though, it's probably going to be a case of "six of one, half a dozen of the other" (ie: the differences are really minor).