I'm very excited about the new Stoneclaw Totem glyph as well. Since survival is the biggest weakness of Elemental Shaman I think this will help with that area nicely, keeping us alive long enough to do our damage while also making us immune to pushback from melee since this should act like a shield. I tested it today and looks like Stoneclaw absorbs 1080 damage going to your totems so the shield on the player should absorb about 4K damage which is pretty significant, especially on a 30 sec CD.
I disagree with what Kaideq said on Booming Echoes. I'm fairly certain that with Echoes, Frost Shock will do more damage than Earth Shock and be on less of a CD giving an Ele Shaman more instant burst damage more often. This will be especially useful when your Nature school is locked out (and it WILL be locked out). Also, with Flame Shock being a necessary cast for Lava Burst crits, having it on less of a CD following an Earth Shock will be useful.
This is the spec I'm looking at post 3.1 Elemental PvP http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?sham...0&version=9658
Glyphs will be Lava, Flame Shock and Stoneclaw Totem.
As for speccing into Frozen Power, you'll lose Shamanism which will send your damage output back to the realms of pre 3.08. Lava Burst will crit for about 2K less than it does now etc. The root is useful really only in 1v1 2v2 and maybe 3v3 situation where you can concentrate on kiting around a melee class. Might be fun in BGs, but has no place in competitive arena.
I'm very excited about the new Stoneclaw Totem glyph as well. Since survival is the biggest weakness of Elemental Shaman I think this will help with that area nicely, keeping us alive long enough to do our damage while also making us immune to pushback from melee since this should act like a shield. I tested it today and looks like Stoneclaw absorbs 1080 damage going to your totems so the shield on the player should absorb about 4K damage which is pretty significant, especially on a 30 sec CD.
How is 4k significant? Unless there's some huge global damage nerf that's been introduced that I've missed, 4k is nothing. Rogues' gouges crit for half that.
Got a question, what is the caster hit cap in pvp? It used to be 3%, and now I'm guessing it's 4% since that 1% of guaranteed resist was done away with? Or did that only apply to boss mobs and not players?
Hit cap against even-level targets is 4%, but keep in mind that there are racials and talents that will add to that.
How is 4k significant? Unless there's some huge global damage nerf that's been introduced that I've missed, 4k is nothing. Rogues' gouges crit for half that.
This is a stupid comment, 4K ekstra HP is and will be a huge buff nomatter what you say.
How is 4k significant? Unless there's some huge global damage nerf that's been introduced that I've missed, 4k is nothing. Rogues' gouges crit for half that.
When counterspelled, those 4k may well buy you time to survive the burst. Think of it as an instant 4k heal that can be used when silenced / counterspelled.
Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.
When counterspelled, those 4k may well buy you time to survive the burst. Think of it as an instant 4k heal that can be used when silenced / counterspelled.
Additionally, it goes right through mortal strike effects which is pretty significant.
Nothing pisses me off more than people without arena teams, or on pathetic arena teams commenting on the relative buff proposed by the development team. If you aren't knee deep in area, you probably don't have a clue and should reserve your comments for some other set of forums.
Elemental Shaman are a long fucking way from being competitive...further than a new glyph (yea, that's what elementals need - more glyphs to juggle) will get them. GC just posted they would be introducing a new mechanic for Elementals in the next PTR build, so just wait and see.
Take it from someone that does do ele competitively in 3s, none of these changes so far are going to help "fix" anything. I play ele/holypally/hunter. Meaning, I rely incredibly on my teammates for any success that we do have. But anytime we play any "real" teams (top 20 teams) that actually play properly, we are pushed into the ground without a problem. None of the listed changes will fix that.
RE: Spell hit. This information was already posted on the first page of this thread, post 14. The spell hit cap is 4%. Not 5. For nature spells you want to go for 6% because you can remove racial resist from blood elves, taurens, and night elves. Whether or not you can remove talented resist was never answered by blizzard and I'm unaware of any testing on the subject.
For nature spells you want to go for 6% because you can remove racial resist from blood elves, taurens, and night elves. Whether or not you can remove talented resist was never answered by blizzard and I'm unaware of any testing on the subject.
I tested this and found you could remove the resist with additional 1% more hit, I however do not have the test results any more as it has been some time since I put in effort into the pvp section of my shaman. I think blizzard confirmed this as well, if I have time later I will look it up.
On the Booming Echoes subject - I think it's a worthwhile PvE and PvP talent. One of our biggest concerns in PvP is being locked out of our Nature school and you can't say this won't be of help at all when you take into account Reverberation, thereby reducing our 2 non-nature shocks CD to a possible 3 seconds. It just gives us more to work with, instead of running around waiting for CD's to burn off while locked out of nature.
It gives me 8% more health, 25% less time snared, instant ghost wolf at the cost of a few %hit, range on spells, and 10% less damage while CCed. I think it's worth it.
You trade 10% more damage in Lightning overload for 5% more crit rate.
You trade 10% less damage in CC for 2% more stamina and 6% less time snared.
And totem of wrath and reverb instead of Elemental Reach? I think it's best if we just ignore your spec.
I'm not sure about you, but I'm not casting enough lightning bolts, and with the damage nerf to chain lightning, I don't see that 5 points investment being worth it going forward. There are too many other more controllable talents. Last 3s I did as elemental, my damage breakdown looked something like this:
Lavaburst: 30%
Chain Lightning 30%
Lightning Bolt: 15%
ES: 10%
Frost shock: 5%
Flame Shock 5%
Thunderstorm 5%
This is with LO mind you, so the chain lightning and LB numbers would go down without it. It's also not necessarily a trade of 5% crit for 10% damage as those 5 points are needed to get to toughness.
Your argument of 10% less damage while CCed for 2% more stam and 6% less time snared is a tough one for me. It really goes further than that though. The real question is 20% less damage while CCed or 4% stam and 12% less duration on snares. I couldn't decide to go full on either, so I went 1/2 on both.
The points I had in reverb I initially had in reach and precision. That's something I'm going to play around with for sure, but I have a feeling being able to shock .8 seconds more often is going to be better than being able to pick people off from 6 yards further. It's rare that i'm casting against something at MAX range because of the need to be decently close to get hexes, fire novas, earth shocks, and thunderstorms off.
Speaking of CL nerf, do we know if / when that is still happening and what the numbers are going to be? Haven't heard anything about that for a while.
I tested this and found you could remove the resist with additional 1% more hit, I however do not have the test results any more as it has been some time since I put in effort into the pvp section of my shaman. I think blizzard confirmed this as well, if I have time later I will look it up.
No, you cannot remove talented resist with 1 more %. Paladins and rogues and other specs carry 4% talented resist on top of the 4 or 6 % base from their race. If you are over 6% hit, you will not receive "MISS" on your spells except vs classes with such talents. The only way to test on talented resists (Talents and Racials are different) Would be to go for a 10% or higher cap and try.
Remember this is all for "MISS". If you want to eliminate "RESIST" you need spell penetration.
No, you cannot remove talented resist with 1 more %. Paladins and rogues and other specs carry 4% talented resist on top of the 4 or 6 % base from their race. If you are over 6% hit, you will not receive "MISS" on your spells except vs classes with such talents. The only way to test on talented resists (Talents and Racials are different) Would be to go for a 10% or higher cap and try.
Remember this is all for "MISS". If you want to eliminate "RESIST" you need spell penetration.
I had some time to look it up now, patch-notes and personal findings disagree with you.
3.0.8
Racial Resistances: These can now be mitigated against by gaining additional chance to hit.
This is with LO mind you, so the chain lightning and LB numbers would go down without it. It's also not necessarily a trade of 5% crit for 10% damage as those 5 points are needed to get to toughness.
So why not put the points into imp. shields instead of crit? Crit is the worst possible stat to have in PvP via talents, or gear. I think you'll also get more use out of putting 5 points in the other 2 first tier enhance talents than Ancestral Knowledge. You might as well just taken Convection over Concussion if you're worried about your mana in PvP, which you shouldn't be at all.
So why not put the points into imp. shields instead of crit? Crit is the worst possible stat to have in PvP via talents, or gear. I think you'll also get more use out of putting 5 points in the other 2 first tier enhance talents than Ancestral Knowledge. You might as well just taken Convection over Concussion if you're worried about your mana in PvP, which you shouldn't be at all.
Why is crit a bad thing to talent into for pvp? And to gear for? What kind of choices do you really have else to gear for in terms of pvp? It's pretty much crit and hit and mp/5. Yes, lava burst doesn't benefit from it, but everything else does. BTW, i'd never gem for it, but I really don't think there's better options for those talent points.
Regardless, lots of changes happened, all of them good. New spec I'm thinking of considering the chances. Elemental reach is now a must as it now increases the range for flame shock as well (although it's currently bugged on the ptr). LO being 3 points makes it a lot easier to put those points into.
There's 3 floater points in there right now (2 in elemental precision, one in ToW). I'm actually thinking that the glyph setup would be something like Flameshock / Stoneclaw / ToW considering it's an 80+ bonus to spell power regardless if the totem is down or not.
The 5 second root is definitely going to be fun to play with though, as well as timing Thunderstorm while stunned to break up stunlocks and burst opportunities. Going to try it out on the PTR this weekend to see how if fares.
Why is crit a bad thing to talent into for pvp? And to gear for? What kind of choices do you really have else to gear for in terms of pvp? It's pretty much crit and hit and mp/5. Yes, lava burst doesn't benefit from it, but everything else does. BTW, i'd never gem for it, but I really don't think there's better options for those talent points.
Regardless, lots of changes happened, all of them good. New spec I'm thinking of considering the chances. Elemental reach is now a must as it now increases the range for flame shock as well (although it's currently bugged on the ptr). LO being 3 points makes it a lot easier to put those points into.
There's 3 floater points in there right now (2 in elemental precision, one in ToW). I'm actually thinking that the glyph setup would be something like Flameshock / Stoneclaw / ToW considering it's an 80+ bonus to spell power regardless if the totem is down or not.
The 5 second root is definitely going to be fun to play with though, as well as timing Thunderstorm while stunned to break up stunlocks and burst opportunities. Going to try it out on the PTR this weekend to see how if fares.
I'm not sure I would leave out Earth's Grasp from my PVP spec. Do you have a reason why or?
I'm not sure I would leave out Earth's Grasp from my PVP spec. Do you have a reason why or?
You'd dump 2 points into Earth's grasp even last patch, not doing it in 3.1 is just plain stupid.
The thunderstorm glyph is major , it has been listed incorrectly for a while. So you'd be dropping the TOW glyph for pvp either way, if the thunderstorm one was minor you'd very likely still be using lava as number 3 as well.
Wasting points on elemental precision without taking elemental weapons is just silly.
Some quick attempts to head off questions:
Convection and Unrelenting Storm: As a Shaman I find I'm dead long before I get close to OOM so these just aren't needed in PvP
Reverberation: When compared to the new Booming Echoes this talent is just WAY overcosted in my opinion. If it was 3 points I'd probably get it. It is also one of those talents that I consider "all or nothing" talents. Going anything between 0 and 5 points will just throw off your GCDs.
Elemental Precision: The 1 point here is just so I can ascend higher up in the tree. Needed to put it somewhere.
Still have 2 points to play with, not sure where I want them to go yet so suggestions would be helpful.
As for glyphs I'm pretty sure Stoneclaw will be a must have for any Shaman. I also think that the Flameshock glyph is still essential for setting up LvB crits and triggering the new Lava Flows. Currently I had the 3rd slotted as Glyph of Lava though I'm wondering if the Totem of Wrath glyph wouldn't be better. Around 200 more damage for LvB (which is really 400 more damage cause it always crits) vs 84 damage for all spells. Thoughts on this as well would also be helpful.
You'd dump 2 points into Earth's grasp even last patch, not doing it in 3.1 is just plain stupid.
The thunderstorm glyph is major , it has been listed incorrectly for a while. So you'd be dropping the TOW glyph for pvp either way, if the thunderstorm one was minor you'd very likely still be using lava as number 3 as well.
Wasting points on elemental precision without taking elemental weapons is just silly.
Good point, dumping 2 points from Ancestral knowledge to earth's grasp makes more sense. I've been resto too long...
Flame Shock / Stone Claw seem to be the only required ones for elemental. The third I could see going a lot of different directions. Hex, ToW, Lava, Shocking, Fire Nova, Thunderstorm could all be decent choices.
There is one point wasted on elemental precision on that build, the other build has to be in or near there to get down to the bloated tier stuff. This is the modified spec with people's recommendations: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?sham...0&version=9614
As for glyphs I'm pretty sure Stoneclaw will be a must have for any Shaman. I also think that the Flameshock glyph is still essential for setting up LvB crits and triggering the new Lava Flows. Currently I had the 3rd slotted as Glyph of Lava though I'm wondering if the Totem of Wrath glyph wouldn't be better. Around 200 more damage for LvB (which is really 400 more damage cause it always crits) vs 84 damage for all spells. Thoughts on this as well would also be helpful.
One important note here is that Glyph of ToW isn't magic, i.e., it can't be removed from us short of killing us. You'd sacrifice extra damage on one spell every 8 sec for extra damage on all dps spells and totems. I've also been playing with the idea of Elemental Mastery, given that it's now 30 sec less on instant spell, giving slighty shorter "burst recovery", but I'm not sure if it's worth it. Will have to test it out.
Also, while I'm here: I've been playing around with Hex for a bit. CloS, Vanish, Intimidating Shout don't work while Hexed, so it seems the old bug was finally solved. I ran out of time (first being primary scribe, followed by Thorim trials (and kills) :p) to test bandage or totems - someone should do those too, imo.
Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.
Been saving honour / WG marks / emblems looking to get into Arena S6. I'm elemental for PvE (4.2k-ish PvE dps, not fully H/Naxx geared yet having swtiched mains a month or so ago.)
My most likely partners would be an excellent HPal and either a good DK or a mediocre Fury Warrior. I personally have very little PvP (and no Arena) experience on my Shaman, but did quite a lot of Feral Druid (to Challenger rank with a Warlock S2) and Hunter Arena (mostly S3, only 1700 rating or so :-( ) back in TBC.
With those potential partners, is Ele (or variant Ele 44/27 Frostschawk! for example) likely to be viable, or paired with melee and healer should I be looking to go Enhancement (or go Resto for 2s, or even dual-healer 3s?)
03/06/09, 7:31 AM
Similar Threads
