[Elemental] PVP Specs? - Page 3

tufy · 03/09/09, 5:34 AM

Originally Posted by shellfish

How is 4k significant? Unless there's some huge global damage nerf that's been introduced that I've missed, 4k is nothing. Rogues' gouges crit for half that.

When counterspelled, those 4k may well buy you time to survive the burst. Think of it as an instant 4k heal that can be used when silenced / counterspelled.

MatsT · 03/09/09, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by tufy

When counterspelled, those 4k may well buy you time to survive the burst. Think of it as an instant 4k heal that can be used when silenced / counterspelled.

Additionally, it goes right through mortal strike effects which is pretty significant.

Juice · 03/09/09, 10:30 AM

Let's stop bickering.

Nothing pisses me off more than people without arena teams, or on pathetic arena teams commenting on the relative buff proposed by the development team. If you aren't knee deep in area, you probably don't have a clue and should reserve your comments for some other set of forums.

Elemental Shaman are a long fucking way from being competitive...further than a new glyph (yea, that's what elementals need - more glyphs to juggle) will get them. GC just posted they would be introducing a new mechanic for Elementals in the next PTR build, so just wait and see.

Sunchips · 03/09/09, 10:36 AM

Take it from someone that does do ele competitively in 3s, none of these changes so far are going to help "fix" anything. I play ele/holypally/hunter. Meaning, I rely incredibly on my teammates for any success that we do have. But anytime we play any "real" teams (top 20 teams) that actually play properly, we are pushed into the ground without a problem. None of the listed changes will fix that.

RE: Spell hit. This information was already posted on the first page of this thread, post 14. The spell hit cap is 4%. Not 5. For nature spells you want to go for 6% because you can remove racial resist from blood elves, taurens, and night elves. Whether or not you can remove talented resist was never answered by blizzard and I'm unaware of any testing on the subject.

shellfish · 03/10/09, 12:55 AM

Sorry.

Kaideq · 03/10/09, 7:20 AM

Originally Posted by Sunchips

For nature spells you want to go for 6% because you can remove racial resist from blood elves, taurens, and night elves. Whether or not you can remove talented resist was never answered by blizzard and I'm unaware of any testing on the subject.

I tested this and found you could remove the resist with additional 1% more hit, I however do not have the test results any more as it has been some time since I put in effort into the pvp section of my shaman. I think blizzard confirmed this as well, if I have time later I will look it up.

B-Dawg · 03/10/09, 10:07 AM

On the Booming Echoes subject - I think it's a worthwhile PvE and PvP talent. One of our biggest concerns in PvP is being locked out of our Nature school and you can't say this won't be of help at all when you take into account Reverberation, thereby reducing our 2 non-nature shocks CD to a possible 3 seconds. It just gives us more to work with, instead of running around waiting for CD's to burn off while locked out of nature.

Infuri · 03/10/09, 1:10 PM

For me, I think that the enhancement talents are too good to pass up, so this is the build I'm going to run with for a bit:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?sham...0&version=9614

It gives me 8% more health, 25% less time snared, instant ghost wolf at the cost of a few %hit, range on spells, and 10% less damage while CCed. I think it's worth it.

Juice · 03/10/09, 1:36 PM

That spec is ridiculous.

You trade 10% more damage in Lightning overload for 5% more crit rate.

You trade 10% less damage in CC for 2% more stamina and 6% less time snared.

And totem of wrath and reverb instead of Elemental Reach? I think it's best if we just ignore your spec.

Infuri · 03/10/09, 2:04 PM

Originally Posted by Juice

That spec is ridiculous.

You trade 10% more damage in Lightning overload for 5% more crit rate.

You trade 10% less damage in CC for 2% more stamina and 6% less time snared.

And totem of wrath and reverb instead of Elemental Reach? I think it's best if we just ignore your spec.

I'm not sure about you, but I'm not casting enough lightning bolts, and with the damage nerf to chain lightning, I don't see that 5 points investment being worth it going forward. There are too many other more controllable talents. Last 3s I did as elemental, my damage breakdown looked something like this:
Lavaburst: 30%
Chain Lightning 30%
Lightning Bolt: 15%
ES: 10%
Frost shock: 5%
Flame Shock 5%
Thunderstorm 5%

This is with LO mind you, so the chain lightning and LB numbers would go down without it. It's also not necessarily a trade of 5% crit for 10% damage as those 5 points are needed to get to toughness.

Your argument of 10% less damage while CCed for 2% more stam and 6% less time snared is a tough one for me. It really goes further than that though. The real question is 20% less damage while CCed or 4% stam and 12% less duration on snares. I couldn't decide to go full on either, so I went 1/2 on both.

The points I had in reverb I initially had in reach and precision. That's something I'm going to play around with for sure, but I have a feeling being able to shock .8 seconds more often is going to be better than being able to pick people off from 6 yards further. It's rare that i'm casting against something at MAX range because of the need to be decently close to get hexes, fire novas, earth shocks, and thunderstorms off.

Speaking of CL nerf, do we know if / when that is still happening and what the numbers are going to be? Haven't heard anything about that for a while.

Sunchips · 03/10/09, 3:13 PM

Originally Posted by Kaideq

I tested this and found you could remove the resist with additional 1% more hit, I however do not have the test results any more as it has been some time since I put in effort into the pvp section of my shaman. I think blizzard confirmed this as well, if I have time later I will look it up.

No, you cannot remove talented resist with 1 more %. Paladins and rogues and other specs carry 4% talented resist on top of the 4 or 6 % base from their race. If you are over 6% hit, you will not receive "MISS" on your spells except vs classes with such talents. The only way to test on talented resists (Talents and Racials are different) Would be to go for a 10% or higher cap and try.

Remember this is all for "MISS". If you want to eliminate "RESIST" you need spell penetration.

Kaideq · 03/10/09, 3:29 PM

Originally Posted by Sunchips

No, you cannot remove talented resist with 1 more %. Paladins and rogues and other specs carry 4% talented resist on top of the 4 or 6 % base from their race. If you are over 6% hit, you will not receive "MISS" on your spells except vs classes with such talents. The only way to test on talented resists (Talents and Racials are different) Would be to go for a 10% or higher cap and try.

Remember this is all for "MISS". If you want to eliminate "RESIST" you need spell penetration.

I had some time to look it up now, patch-notes and personal findings disagree with you.

3.0.8
Racial Resistances: These can now be mitigated against by gaining additional chance to hit.

Source;

World of Warcraft Europe -> Patch Notes - Patch 3.0.8

Edit: I see your point, I said resist when I meant missed. That is the incorrect term, sorry.

B-Dawg · 03/10/09, 4:41 PM

Originally Posted by Infuri

This is with LO mind you, so the chain lightning and LB numbers would go down without it. It's also not necessarily a trade of 5% crit for 10% damage as those 5 points are needed to get to toughness.

So why not put the points into imp. shields instead of crit? Crit is the worst possible stat to have in PvP via talents, or gear. I think you'll also get more use out of putting 5 points in the other 2 first tier enhance talents than Ancestral Knowledge. You might as well just taken Convection over Concussion if you're worried about your mana in PvP, which you shouldn't be at all.

Infuri · 03/13/09, 5:12 PM

Originally Posted by B-Dawg

So why not put the points into imp. shields instead of crit? Crit is the worst possible stat to have in PvP via talents, or gear. I think you'll also get more use out of putting 5 points in the other 2 first tier enhance talents than Ancestral Knowledge. You might as well just taken Convection over Concussion if you're worried about your mana in PvP, which you shouldn't be at all.

Why is crit a bad thing to talent into for pvp? And to gear for? What kind of choices do you really have else to gear for in terms of pvp? It's pretty much crit and hit and mp/5. Yes, lava burst doesn't benefit from it, but everything else does. BTW, i'd never gem for it, but I really don't think there's better options for those talent points.

Regardless, lots of changes happened, all of them good. New spec I'm thinking of considering the chances. Elemental reach is now a must as it now increases the range for flame shock as well (although it's currently bugged on the ptr). LO being 3 points makes it a lot easier to put those points into.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?sham...0&version=9614

There's 3 floater points in there right now (2 in elemental precision, one in ToW). I'm actually thinking that the glyph setup would be something like Flameshock / Stoneclaw / ToW considering it's an 80+ bonus to spell power regardless if the totem is down or not.

The 5 second root is definitely going to be fun to play with though, as well as timing Thunderstorm while stunned to break up stunlocks and burst opportunities. Going to try it out on the PTR this weekend to see how if fares.

shellfish · 03/13/09, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by Infuri

Why is crit a bad thing to talent into for pvp? And to gear for? What kind of choices do you really have else to gear for in terms of pvp? It's pretty much crit and hit and mp/5. Yes, lava burst doesn't benefit from it, but everything else does. BTW, i'd never gem for it, but I really don't think there's better options for those talent points.

Regardless, lots of changes happened, all of them good. New spec I'm thinking of considering the chances. Elemental reach is now a must as it now increases the range for flame shock as well (although it's currently bugged on the ptr). LO being 3 points makes it a lot easier to put those points into.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?sham...0&version=9614

There's 3 floater points in there right now (2 in elemental precision, one in ToW). I'm actually thinking that the glyph setup would be something like Flameshock / Stoneclaw / ToW considering it's an 80+ bonus to spell power regardless if the totem is down or not.

The 5 second root is definitely going to be fun to play with though, as well as timing Thunderstorm while stunned to break up stunlocks and burst opportunities. Going to try it out on the PTR this weekend to see how if fares.

I'm not sure I would leave out Earth's Grasp from my PVP spec. Do you have a reason why or?