I'm not quiet sure if this is the correct thread for my concern...
But I'm european and can't ask my questions in the american Forums.
Was SE and F stealth nerfed?
It looks like the range has been deeply decreased... pre 3.1.2 it rooted correctly in 12 yard range.. now I'm happy if it triggers in a 5 yard radius... it really suxx.. but now the talent seems to be useless...
I think all other elemental shamans i knwo have the same problems
I'm reading mmo-champion and its bluetracker daylie.. and couldn't find anything about this concern..
Has anyone made similar experiences?
Yes, it was nerfed. According to blue, it was down to 10 yards. Though to be honest, it feels like 5. No more pulling rogues immediately out of stealth in Ring of Valor
SEF is still a great talent, the CD on CL is huge when needed for burst.
Sunchips - what is your stance on haste for Elemental in PvP? I've been stacking haste gear, and the quite obvious is my crit has taken a HUGE hit. I see from your gear you favor crit. Is either better than the other for us in PvP? Or is it just a preference?
I never really felt you could get enough haste for it to make a huge difference and LB/CL do a good part of my damage so I just stuck with crit. That said I'm not really playing wow atm so any recent changes to arenas/shamans are going to be out of my reach to comment.
So I'm thinking of trying the above spec the next chance I get and was looking for some feedback. Obviously the main thing here is to go 5/5 Reverberation for the 3 second CD on Frost and Flame Shock and 5 seconds on Earth Shock. The dilemma is what do I take points out of? I also have 1 floating point remaining in that spec that I wasn't sure where to put.
A few other questions I have.
Am I as far over the PvP hit cap as I think I am with 5.99% from gear +1% from talents?
Does anyone have the math on Glyph of Totem of Wrath vs Glyph of Lava? It seems there has to be some spellpower threshold where Totem of Lava becomes mathematically better due to scaling.
Alright I took out the points in toughness, took one point out of unrelenting storms and put it into elemental precision and put 2 points into booming echoes, I cant decide where to put the last 2 points
In determining how I might adjust my spec the other day I found myself looking at Elemental Precision, Thundering Strikes, and Elemental Weapons for the last few points of my spec and decided to try to weight them to figure out which ones were the most efficient talents for my points.
1 point in each of the below talents
Thundering Strikes = 1% crit = roughly 46 crit rating = just under 3 gems.
Elemental Precision = 1% hit = roughly 33 hit rating = just over 2 gems.
Elemental Weapons = 21 damage = just over 1 gem.
Based on this system it would seem that were anyone debating where to put points, Thundering Strikes is the most efficient, followed by Elemental Precision (assuming you aren't hit capped), followed by Elemental Weapons.
While on the subject of crit, hit, and hit caps I also came up with the following:
When debating how to reach the pvp hit cap, gear for the hit rather than talenting Elemental Precision.
This conclusion is based off the fact that:
a. The PvP gear treats hit rating = to crit rating (Furious Cloak, Neck of Dominance vs Ascendancy) (Deadly Gladiator chest, Furious Belt of Dominance vs Wintergrasp facsimiles)
b. 46 crit rating = 1% crit whereas 33 hit rating = 1% hit (both rounded)
c. 1 point Elemental Precision = 1% hit. 1 point Thundering Strikes = 1% crit
d. 46 crit rating = 1% crit = 1 point Thundering Strikes vs 33 hit rating = 1% hit = 1 point Elemental Precision.
In determining how I might adjust my spec the other day I found myself looking at Elemental Precision, Thundering Strikes, and Elemental Weapons for the last few points of my spec and decided to try to weight them to figure out which ones were the most efficient talents for my points.
1 point in each of the below talents
Thundering Strikes = 1% crit = roughly 46 crit rating = just under 3 gems.
Elemental Precision = 1% hit = roughly 33 hit rating = just over 2 gems.
Elemental Weapons = 21 damage = just over 1 gem.
Based on this system it would seem that were anyone debating where to put points, Thundering Strikes is the most efficient, followed by Elemental Precision (assuming you aren't hit capped), followed by Elemental Weapons.
Just remember that spellpower is more useful to an elemental shaman than crit. I'd think that this would become more true as resilience levels go up and crit damage goes down in higher arena brackets. The hit is only useful if you are not already hit-capped (4% for pvp, assuming no other talents in use like CoS).
As an aside, my PVP set still includes two pieces of tier 8, partially because I haven't replaced them yet and partially because, with the 2-piece bonus and glyph of flame shock, it's actually very nice. I have seen a few times where a flame shock tick crit has killed someone.
Have been testing out a 3's team lately witch has come to fit in nicely with out new buffs, Ret/Rogue/Ele. Yes it does sound stupid but it has plenty of CC. Played a few matches vsing mainly healer and 2dps. Started off with Hexing the healer, then they would usually trinket out calling the pally to repentance, (or vise versa) then the rogue would usually sap/blind one dps leaveing us to wipe one of there dps before they could react. Usually after that we mopped up the heals first.
With regards to Carnificuses spec I think it is a great idea, we arn't hard casting that much in 3's so it seems to be a vaiable spec. PLaning on testing it in the next few days to try and see it's full potential
From a CC standpoint, it should play the same as a resto shaman would in the same comp. Open with a sap on the healer. If they trinket, you chain to a blind. Out of blind you repent. Then vanish and resap. Hex can fill in a gap if required. Hex's 20 yard range and the weakness of shaman can make it tough to get in range of a healer who's sapped in the back when it's in your best interest to let stupid DPS overpursue and get blown the fuck up. Over pursuit of dps will probably get you more kills than anything else due to the high burst of ele/ret. If your rogue is good (mine is), warriors won't be able to shield wall or reflect because they'll be dismantled.
If they don't go after you (shaman), position yourself between the healer and the target. When the healer is free from CC, use thunderstorm to separate them from the target (before they drop an instant heal on target). Then chain to a hex while the healer is returning. Remember that Hex and Repent share a DR, so don't intentionally pair them. Hex can be a tough CC to count on, because of it's cast time, short range, and because the shaman is typically under focus fire. If the shaman is the focus, the rogue must keep the vanish/sap option available for mid-combat. If the rogue is the target, the hex is more likely useful - and as elemental you will have to spread CC options to one of the DPS.
Also, I feel it's pertinent to point out that your shaman is not a member of any arena team and you're geared in a mixture which includes greens. Additionally, you don't have the dual spec option engaged. Tread carefully, and fix your profile.
My setup is an enhancement shaman, me (elemental), and a resto druid. This combination works well usually, because I can hex a target immediately, they trinket out, then the other shaman hexxes them after a couple seconds usually... either that or I can root one person down and knock the others away. Sometimes people are dumb and trinket out of the roots, leaving themselves open to a hex. Depending on the target, nuke one person and usually when it's a 3v2 game, we've already won. The druid healer can keep himself up almost indefinitely, and if he gets temporarily CC'd, I can throw quick heals.
Stoneclaw glyph was incredibly useful for arena, as is the roots option for earthbind. I think that if we are given the ability to drop all four totems in one GCD (as the Shaman Q&A said over at mmo-champion), we might see this as a significant buff to arena play.
The only thing we need now is a bit more damage during mobility, though honestly I am usually refreshing GCDs while moving (totems, water shield, shocks) so this is not a huge issue for me.
Oh, and one of the best escape mechanics, Earthbind/roots, then Fire Nova Totem. This can also be used to nuke lower-hp players.
Another thing I thought was funny about the Shaman Q&A:
Originally Posted by Shaman Q&A
Elemental shamans used to have a niche of being able to blow up a wounded target on demand, but we have been trying to back off some of these really high burst moments.
If I throw a flame shock, then a Lava Burst, Chain Lightning (which should hit just before the Lava Burst, given range), then an instant-cast LB from EM and possibly a thunderstorm... that's quite a large amount of damage in about 1-2 seconds of time (CL+LvB+LB, not counting flame shock ticks or possible thunderstorm). I don't know where they're trying to back off some of these really high burst moments.. I hope this doesn't mean a nerf to EM.
My setup is an enhancement shaman, me (elemental), and a resto druid. This combination works well usually...
I looked at this, and then at your team. You are rated 1175, I would not consider than anywhere close to being able to come to the conclusion that the comp works well.
Anyone else think that elemental are going to be monsters next patch?
It seems like the only time I'm struggling in arenas is when it's DK + X + Healer. DKs are getting the nerf bat, we're getting an amazing ghost wolf get away tool.
Resto got a lot of buffs, but I think the ghost wolf change alone might have been the biggest thing that elemental needed and it could be the stronger spec in pvp now.
2s going away, 3s and 5s being the main form of arena now and elemental is already strong(est) there. I'm trying not to get too excited, but man, it's feeling like elemental shaman will be even more the anti cleave.
Which meta gem is best suited for a pvp ele shaman?
Also, I have seen ppl saying to stack crit for burst damage and other who say stam for survivability, once you reach the ideal amount of resil that is. If this is the case, shouldn't I be using stam and resil enchants instead of sp and resil. But less sp = less damage.
Of course, it's early to say, but elemental certainly looks like it will be very strong in 3.2. The last couple patches have really strengthened elemental. Thunderstorm, earthbind root, and fire nova stun are already huge for staying away from cleaves. Add to those tools a no-snare ghost wolf, and elemental shaman start to look like the least favorable target upon which for cleaves to focus. While the ghostwolf change is good for all shaman, it's best for elemental because they don't have to worry about healing themselves while kiting (as a resto would, breaking GW form) nor does it overlap with other abilities significantly (enhance already has a self freedom). With 3 second frost shocks, an elemental can reduce the dps uptime of any melee class significantly. Trying to stay on them in 3.2 will be very frustrating.
As a result, elementals are unlikely to be the focus targets in 3s. Better targets will exist, so elementals can start gearing/gemming out of resilience and into pain-train. Being removed as the focus target makes support work easier, which includes taking full advantage of windshear being off a shared shock cooldown. Additionally, there are lots of opportunities to use tstorm/root/nova to push healers out of position, or to use them defensively to keep baddies off your partners. I'm probably extrapolating too far, but I believe making this ghostwolf change will allow shaman to slip back into their support role for which they were designed. It's much easier to make strategic moves when you aren't trying to hold your intestines in all the time.
Also, fuck DKs. I'm going to laugh when I walk away from their COI spam.
We just started running a disc/ret/ele 3s team to get our team ready for the patch, and I'm quite looking forward to it. With the ghost wolf change, we no longer have a viable first target (I was the obvious one before.) I still feel like any team we are on that depends on CC is going to feel like they wish they had a mage, but we are finally on the right track.
I'm curious what other comps people are looking to try for 3s post-3.2? We are trying to bill ourselves as the poor man's cleave/anti-cleave.
I've been running combat rogue / resto druid / ele for a bit now, and we're really getting the hang of it. Our MMR is ~2150 now and we went 21-4 last week.
Rogues are always the kill target for us, with ret pallies being an exception if they've used wings.
Druid focusses on CCing the healer unless it's a cleave team, then they focus on CCing the 2nd melee dps and I take the healer. I always focus / control the 2nd dps. Once a trinket is blown by the healer, I bloodlust and hex or the rogue blinds, depending who's closer to the healer. Then comes the hammer with flame shock -> lightning bolt -> EM Lavaburst -> frost shock. Rogue uses Killing Spree at the same time. If the target dies, we win. If the target lives, we repeat 45 seconds later or lose
I think that a prot pally healer might be stronger for our comp with freedoms and aura mastery, but a druid cyclones and HoTs definitely help.
BTW, for my spec, I recently replaced the Hit battlemaster's trinket for the WG on use spell power one, so I took elemental precision points for now. Once I pickup the relentless hit gear, i'll probably put those points in reverb.
I acually run that same comp but I think you don't have to worry about a pally freedom enymore since with that comp gw is a freedom druid always has shapshift rogue has cds, and against cleaves and dots druids hots seem to work better, our only problem is heavy casting teams, warlocks mage is a killer against me !! I did a few scrimshes with a bm hunter, rest druid and those teams are going down so hard so fun !! So I wouldn't change a good druid for a pally with you'r comp.
My question though with the change to resiliance things won't blow up as fast I was wondering if a spec without nova and more mana efficiancy would be best since 3s will be a lot longer . Any thoughts?
Thanks guys
With the 3 minute change to innervate, I'd say no if you have a druid.
From what my druid is saying, while glyphed for innervate, he can get a whole mana bar in pvp gear back with the new innervate every 3 minutes as long as we control the offensive dispeller if there is one. This could mean we could get the first innervate in a match (which still gives the druid mana) and they could give the second.
That said, I keep water shield up on me in general and have never had a problem running out of mana as long as I'm using thunderstorm in general.
Ya that did cross my mind about the intervate, as much as I would hate to take one away from my healer but with the buff to mp5 and 3 min on it maybe I won't feel so bad well the only time I had a problem with mana is the end of a draged out fight and it ending up being me vs a healer espcialy those priests!! And one more question for you, do you have any talents in improving you'r mana regin ? I put the one point I needed to go deeper in the tree in my hit talent, would love to link my armory but I can't on my blackberry if you wanna check my spec my shaman is elliss from quil dori thanks a bunch for the reply
I was wondering what people thought of the Flame Shock/Lava Burst changes and its effect on PvP. Basically should a PvP Elemental Shaman continue to Glyph for Flame Shock or switch it up to Glyph of ToW or Lightning Bolt? I assume everyone's other 2 glyphs are Lava and Stoneclaw.
According to Binkenstein's post over on the 3.2 changes dedicated post, the new order of Glyphs for straight dps is:
LB: 175
FS: 153
ToW: 123
Lava: 118
However, we don't have the same luxuries in PvP as in PvE, namely getting the guaranteed full duration of Flame Shock or being able to sit there spamming Lightning Bolts. For this reason I propose that ToW be the new 3rd PvP glyph. Its an extra flat 93 spellpower that can not be taken away from you.
I would further propose that Flame Shock be worse than Lightning Bolt even, due to the high number of Pallies and Priests I see/saw in high end arena. If I saw one of these classes I needed to work to even have the dot still there when I cast my Lava Burst and for teams with both it was nigh impossible.
Since this is the first activity this post has seen in about a month I figure I'd also ask how everyone ended up in Season 6 and how Season 7 is progressing. I ended up with a 3v3 of 2370 playing Destro Lock, myself, Resto Druid. Fun as hell and decently competitive. Unfortunately my Warlock left for greener pastures and my Resto Druid is going casual with school starting again so I'm now starting up again with a different lock and a Holy Pally. So far we haven't played all that much so nothing to report really.
One last thing. I'm running a 59/12 full Reverberation spec and find the 1 sec off Wind Shear and all shocks to be useful as hell since it fits much nicer into a world full of 1.5 second casts/GCDs (Lava Burst, Chain Lightning, Shocks, Totem Calls)
When you talk about the loss of dps from flame shock being dispelled, you also must take into consideration the 30% haste from lava flows procs. I'm no mat mathematician, but i think that those hastened lightning bolts/lava burst would be beneficial.
When you talk about the loss of dps from flame shock being dispelled, you also must take into consideration the 30% haste from lava flows procs. I'm no mat mathematician, but i think that those hastened lightning bolts/lava burst would be beneficial.
People dispelling Flame Shock have given me quite a few wins, especially when they do it when I'm under Heroism/PI.
With the changes to FS, I'm planning on dropping the glyph and running with the Lava Burst in its place, combined with the (hopefully) 4pc t9 by then it should be a nice closer. My glyph makeup will likely be Thunder/Lava/Stoneclaw.
(For reference, I run a Disc/Ele 2s team, so the burst is extremely necessary to beat some of our more difficult comps we come up against.)
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Now that our 2s team has gotten our rating up reasonably high I'm looking at doing threes. I've seen some talk about the "Wizard Cleave" comps, but I frankly just don't know any good PVP locks right now. Has anyone had any luck with anything else? We'd probably stick with the Disc/Ele core and add a third, we had a bit of luck with ret last season, but the burst nerf on Ret hurt the team pretty hard.
I ran elemental / combat rogue / resto druid to 2150 last season, and will probably do elemental / muti rogue / resto druid this season.
Combat was awesome for when we could create those burst moments, but the continued pressure and added cooldowns of mutilate with prep are probably going to be better in the end for us.
Elemental works well with a hunter or warrior too + healer.
I'm trying 2's with a Mut rogue. We're getting used to the comp, but it's going decently. We're floating around lol1350 for the time being. A lot of it seems to be more issues with my play rather than his - I'm still getting used to dropping and redropping totems. We typically try to cc one member of the opposing team with sap/blind/hex and then vanish/sap. We have a lot of trouble with teams using a resto druid, frost mages, and enhance shamans. Given that I play with a rogue, I don't feel like Reverberation is super necessary for interrupts.
05/22/09, 1:18 PM
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