Have close to BIS gear already and nowhere near 6k, I guess my green gems/lack of good enchants makes a difference, but lack of enchanting/Jewelcrafting are probably a bigger factor. What kind of DPS are you guys pulling on 3D Sarth? Seems like the best fight right now for an elemental shaman, got #1 dps this week.
My dps on average was below what my SEIC spreadsheet says it should be. At the moment, my rotation is FS, LvB, CL, LB...and from here on it's pretty much a priority system, ensuring that FS is up at all times (most of the time). I'm slightly over the hitcap at the moment at 286 due to missing our regular shadow priest/balance druid last night, so I had to use some food to make up the difference. You'll see I have a small miss percentage. Usually, it's 0, last night was the exception. My Glyphs are those as recommended by Bink in his Elemental guide.
I've noticed that some very high dps rotations (in the order of 5k) remove CL completely! Should I be doing this too and what am I doing wrong/what should I change to achieve this? Lag is usually of the order of 150ms on most nights.
Apologies for any stupid questions and Bink is a genius for putting so much time and effort into us Shaman.
I am using the LB, Flameshock, and Flametongue glyphs. I was told by another Shaman on my server who has much more experience than I do that I needed ~30% crit and even with the Flametongue glyph I am only at 28% unbuffed so I haven’t gone ahead and gotten the Lava glyph. Oh, and I do realize all my gems are green, the prices are obscene for rare gems!
I live in the U.S. but raid on the European servers so my latency averages out at around 300. In this particular fight I only used CL once which I have read is a loss in DPS because of the dead time where I either have to wait for LvB or go ahead and cast a LB but clip into LvB. I don’t have a set rotation, and I have the habit of casting Flame Shock late and clipping into my LvB cooldown, or too early and clipping off the last DoT. I don’t use a potion during Heroism /slack I know! I did same my cooldowns, trinket and Elemental Mastery for Heroism. I feel that my DPS is lower than it should be, and I’m having a hard time getting close to 5k. I am the only Elemental Shaman in the 25mans that I run so I also don’t have anyone in game to compare myself to, I guess you could say I’m self-concious.
Unfortunately it appears I have logged off with Earthliving instead of Flametongue
I was told by another Shaman on my server who has much more experience than I do that I needed ~30% crit and even with the Flametongue glyph I am only at 28% unbuffed so I haven’t gone ahead and gotten the Lava glyph. Oh, and I do realize all my gems are green, the prices are obscene for rare gems!
I would respectfully suggest that this person doesn't have a clue.
There is nothing special about 30% crit, crit is our worst stat (point-for-point) and most shamans doing 5k DPS+ will be running at closer to 25% unbuffed than 30%.
The main issue is your crit on LB was only 35%. Thats horrendously low, and especially bad considering you barely used CL, so LB was overwhelmingly your main source of damage. As well as lost damage directly it also means lost clearcasting. Assuming your mages were keeping up the crit buff, then I can only assume you got a horribly bad day with the RNG. Not much you can do about that.
Second point is your rotation could probably be a little better, and I think you could have squeezed in another Lava Burst. I am not going to comb through your combat log (especially in Russian), but I would maybe try and use CL more, as you only cast it twice. If you dropped a LB for a CL in your normal rotation you might find an improvement there.
Other points:
- For rings, I would buy the badge one. Its better than either of the ones from heroics, even if it has horrible Spi on it.
- For gems, you could very slightly improve by using sta/hit rather than sta/spellpower to hit your blue sockets, and then replacing the yellow hit gem with a runed for spellpower.
Thanks mate, i will take your comments into account!
I know i should work on the rotation but the crit is ok, i mean crit from the goods.
I am using the LB, Flameshock, and Flametongue glyphs. Oh, and I do realize all my gems are green, the prices are obscene for rare gems!
Huston, I think we have a problem.
Once more, with less sarcasim/mean-ness: Swap FT for Lava. Replace those green gems with rares, as it's pretty pointless to worry about your damage output if your gear is sub-standard. My rule of thumb is fix the stuff thats easy to fix, being gems/enchants/talents/glyphs, and then worry about rotations.
I've been trying to find numbers on the dps increases during Bloodlust/Heroism in regards to Potion of Speed and Potion of Wild Magic. However, I've been unsuccessful thus far. I don't remember hearing a whole lot of discussion or theory crafting regarding this consumable decision, but I may have missed it. Is the haste the clear winner? Anyone have any info/math on this subject?
I've been trying to find numbers on the dps increases during Bloodlust/Heroism in regards to Potion of Speed and Potion of Wild Magic. However, I've been unsuccessful thus far. I don't remember hearing a whole lot of discussion or theory crafting regarding this consumable decision, but I may have missed it. Is the haste the clear winner? Anyone have any info/math on this subject?
My opinion is - better use haste potion, but not when heroism active. Of course, except maligos 2 "spark" stacked or thaddius. Yes, I know what we may have cast time less then minimum GCD 1sec, but 100%+ damage buff time is too precious
Question regarding Ele Shaman Hit cap: I have read that the caster hit cap for Naxx is 17%. With racial and Elemental Precision (4%) it is 13% for alliance ele shamans. Given that our small guild may not be able to field a moonkin, is my target hit cap 13%? Can I get away with 11-12% in favor of swapping out gear for SP in lieu of hit? If I am waaaay off base please enlighten me.
Question regarding Ele Shaman Hit cap: I have read that the caster hit cap for Naxx is 17%.
Correct. Its also the hit cap for Eye of Eternity, Ulduar, Molten Core and anything else containing a raid boss
Originally Posted by zethorian
With racial and Elemental Precision (4%) it is 13% for alliance ele shamans. Given that our small guild may not be able to field a moonkin, is my target hit cap 13%?
Correct. As things stand a Shadow Priest is the more usual way of giving the buff, although if you don't have one boomkin abuse is better than nothing.
Originally Posted by zethorian
Can I get away with 11-12% in favor of swapping out gear for SP in lieu of hit?
Get away with it in what sense? Hope and pray with all your fingers crossed that the RNG will smile on you and your spells won't miss? Or get away with it in terms of gaining DPS that way? Well, the answer is "no", either way.
Being 1-2% off the hit cap will of course mean that the vast majority of your spells do hit, and so you won't face the total rotation collapse you could get by being 10% short, but its still a bad move.
Again, small guild, limited to 10 mans outside of pugs.
Also, from a few pages back, it was stated that FT glyph was a waste. Should I replace mine with LB? This should help my overall sp.
FT is not a total waste, but LB is better. As for general gear, you have too many blue gems, especially considering two are hitting very poor socket bonuses. Also you would be better off by replacing your relic with, well just about anything.
Oh and don't link your armory when its listed next to your name anyway.
I only pulled off a bit over 4.6k DPS on patchwerk, wich is rather poor in my opinion, seeing that others can do over 1.7k dps more. My best has been between 4.9-5k with worse gear, i guess i got lucky with rng there.
The gear I have at the moment in my armory profile is what i was using on patchwerk, exapt that i didnt have totem of hex by that time, but instead used the +55 one from mechanar.
WWS from patchwerk (its actually not on wws, hosted on our guildsite so they get saved since todays run)
I used potion of wild magic aswell (is the haste one better btw?) to improve my dps but that didnt help grately i guess. I also know i lack still upgrades, but not worth of 1.7k dps tbh.
My rotation was FS - LvB - LB x 5 - LvB, LB x 3 - CL - FS
if i remember correctly. I think in the beginning i did 4x LB + FS when i had to refresh FS, but changed that in the middle of the fight. Now i know i miss a lot of haste to put in 5x LB between LvB's, but if i use a CL i have some split seconds where i dont cast anything.
So, please help and tell me how to improve
Edit// ok i figured its not possible to see the combat log from this page, i will update the post with the "real" WWS when i get it
I just noticed that Ghando in particular broke his 4piece t7 to use cloth leggings. I thought that lava burst was pretty crucial to our dps and therefore assumed that the added crit bonus is definitely important too.
After about 30 runs of VH, I finally have the Mark of the War prisoner. Which means I could upgrade my 7.5gloves for the benefactors which seem to be our BIS. I have blacksmithing so I could sub in a +hit gem and still remain hit capped. But as previously mentioned it would mean I lose my 4piece. (ive had terrible luck with helms... still rockin a resto one). So what do you guys reckon is better, 4piece or the stat boost from benefactors?
/edit - i just realised that i didnt actually ask a question.
But any input over my gearing choices would be appreciated.
Overall my dps has been good. Just about always over 4, usually in the mid 4's. Stays there for entire naxx25 runs for most part.
Been using FS->Lvb->LB LB CL LB LB->Lvb->LB LB LB LB
I know gearing has dropped my spellpower a bit, but a lot of the cloth options are off the table until all clothies get them. I make up for it a bit with Jewelcrafting and Alchemy.
Missing some pieces that just haven't dropped.. haha totem of hex just dropped tonight finally after weeks and weeks of not dropping.
Main question is: is it worthwhile ditching sundial for a spellpower trinket? (we haven't exactly had luck on dying curse) (nor have I seen embrace of the spider drop). I would have to grab the badges SP healing one, until something better showed up.
I just noticed that Ghando in particular broke his 4piece t7 to use cloth leggings. I thought that lava burst was pretty crucial to our dps and therefore assumed that the added crit bonus is definitely important too.
After about 30 runs of VH, I finally have the Mark of the War prisoner. Which means I could upgrade my 7.5gloves for the benefactors which seem to be our BIS. I have blacksmithing so I could sub in a +hit gem and still remain hit capped. But as previously mentioned it would mean I lose my 4piece. (ive had terrible luck with helms... still rockin a resto one). So what do you guys reckon is better, 4piece or the stat boost from benefactors?
/edit - i just realised that i didnt actually ask a question.
At current spellpower levels, I believe the 4-piece Elemental bonus comes out to ~30dps. I won't attempt a mathematical explanation because I was an English major, but it's much smaller than you'd think by reading the tooltip.
I have an elemental shaman, pregnar, on burning blade eu. A week ago i was doing sarth 3d and 1 of my guild mates respecced from resto to elemental. At the start of the fight he did more dps than with his not so very good elemental gear. There was 1 clear distinction between us. His resto gear had about 2300 sp unbuffed. Wheres i dont get past 1995 with my current gear. So once again i sat down at the drawing table to look at my hit/sp.
My current gear and skill, dont get me past 3.5/3.7k dps. I use a priority system for casting. So i start off with FS LVB, than do cl and lb till LVB is ready. After that another cl and lb till refresh of FS and recast LVB.
I have basically 2 qeustions:
A) should i improve my rotation and how? This will probably lie in the adjustment of the rotation to my haste. How can i find out which rotation i should use with an X amount of haste?
B) what should i with my hit problem and low sp?
Currently i have 290 hit. I was thinking about dropping my blue ring with 51 haste rating, getting the t7.5 pants and bringing hit food to all raids. If i drop the ring and get the pants ill drop to 249 hit rating, but i would gain the titanium spelshock ring with 19 sp gem, and another 2 x 19 sp gems in my belt and bracers. I would have to leave the 8 hit 12 stam gem in the bracers untill i get the sapphie/maly quest neck.
Currently it is not possible for me in the guild am in to get the leggings of the wanton spellcaster. The benefactors gloves are a possibility, if i read correctly i should wear those gloves instead of my current t7.5 gloves. Can someone confirm this?
As i reviewed my gear, is it correct that i should only upgrade to, and excluding the items above,
- Voice of reason
- torch of holy fire
Tonight i will post wws of naxx25 and maybe malygos
Thanks
[...]Main question is: is it worthwhile ditching sundial for a spellpower trinket? (we haven't exactly had luck on dying curse) (nor have I seen embrace of the spider drop). I would have to grab the badges SP healing one, until something better showed up.
Sundial proc is +590 spell power during 10sec.
I think this kind of proc has a 45second hiddend CD and is 10% procrate so it is ~ to 1 proc par minute at worst -> +98 spell power (590/6). So sundial is still solid and far better than the healing trinket.
I actually think embrace of the spider may be a bit better than sundial but am not than keen on having haste bonus procrate.
[...]After about 30 runs of VH, I finally have the Mark of the War prisoner. Which means I could upgrade my 7.5gloves for the benefactors which seem to be our BIS.[...]
Well, keep in mind BiS is point of view.
As we have to remain hit capped, there are few single change which are a signifiant upgrade by themself only (mark of the prisonner -> dying curse is an obvious one).
Ie at ~ilvl I consider BiS item the item i have in my bags giving me the more spellpower being hit capped, assuming am not getting that much crit over haste.
In my case I know SEIC values 4t7 ~ 28dps or 20 spell power.
Guys,
I've been wondering how are you getting 4LB and 1 CL between LvB refreshes? With my haste, around 460 rating and more then 500 with food, i can do only 4 LB and have to wait ~0.3sec till LvB refreshed.
My LB casting time with no haste potions and Heroism is 1.3sec, simply for 4 LB it is 5.2 sec to cast and we got 8 sec CD for LvB. So why I can't do 4 LB till LvB refreshed? Is it my latency? During the raid got 250 ping, also got Quartz and spaming LB when cast bar comes to red zone.
[...]My current gear and skill, dont get me past 3.5/3.7k dps. I use a priority system for casting. So i start off with FS LVB, than do cl and lb till LVB is ready. After that another cl and lb till refresh of FS and recast LVB.
I have basically 2 qeustions:
A) should i improve my rotation and how? This will probably lie in the adjustment of the rotation to my haste. How can i find out which rotation i should use with an X amount of haste?
[...]
Hello Pregnar.
Since 3.0.8 on single target you LB~CL, now CL should only be used when lava burst cd is on the verge of being ready as filling the 'wait time' with a 1.5s spell is better than with a 2s spell.
Above that, if rotations are nice to talk about, I think it's still a minor factor of our dps as soon as you understand how it works. I mean, getting FS on, LvB when ready and spam LB to fill blank is not hard and will give you ok numbers if other factors are good.
I mean if you can get no more than 3.7kdps on patchwerk for exemple, unless you're really understuff it's more a matter of gear choice/cd usage. Will try to check when eu armory will be available
edit : armory is online
Regarding the stuff available, your spell power is far too low. Keep in mind that for us :
(hit >) spellpower >> haste > crit
even if it means to lose socket bonus or to put in bags new loots.
When you build your stuff, first thing to do is to reach hit cap using as less socket as you can (assuming ~ilvl). Because a socket is a potential spell power source and you rather leave haste or crit instead of spell power. I do not like hit food for same reason.
Ideally you will only socket for spell power except 2 blue gems if you are not jewler (for meta activation), and if possible use those blue gems to reach spell power socket bonus.
In your case :
*consider using badge off hand instead of naxx 10 shield (hit >> haste)
*consider using cloth belt badge instead of razuvious belt (hit >> crit)
*consider using badge ring instead of anub bring (haste > crit)
*your other ring is not very good (spell power >> haste), if you still need hit on a ring slot the 78 jewelry craft is better (31 hit 3x crit 3x spell power + 1 socket)
*try to find a set up to reach hit cap with no hit gem need, keep the 2 blue in bracers and foot (spell power bonus), +19 spell power gem in all other
*kel'thuzad back is wasted on us, but as you have it it may be better than the craft one.
*as we scale very well with spell power, get exalted with sons of hodir for spaulders enchant
*if you have to choose, i think T7.5 pants + benefactor gauntlets > T7.5 gloves and 4HM legs. You can make calculations but assuming wasted mp5 on gloves and not reachable socket bonus in legs, i am pretty sure of that one.
Guys,
I've been wondering how are you getting 4LB and 1 CL between LvB refreshes? With my haste, around 460 rating and more then 500 with food, i can do only 4 LB and have to wait ~0.3sec till LvB refreshed.
[...]
I think you are wrong somewhere about your numbers. Your latency can't "eat" you 2 second on a 8 second sequence.
By the way 1.3s cast time for lightning bolt with no heroism is suspicious.
I think you are wrong somewhere about your numbers. Your latency can't "eat" you 2 second on a 8 second sequence.
By the way 1.3s cast time for lightning bolt with no heroism is suspicious.
You are right, I was wrong in my previous post, the cast time is 1.7, so its 6.8 for 4 LB, 1.2sec left for LvB CD.
Where I could spend that 1.2 sec if I am late for the LvB CD for 0.3sec?
PS. I provided my WWS on the previous page, but it is in Russian
Have looked through the log. Figured out that during the combat the time between LvB is 10sec and i got 4 LB and 1 CL or 5 LB between LvB. I that ok?
You are right, I was wrong in my previous post, the cast time is 1.7, so its 6.8 for 4 LB, 1.2sec left for LvB CD.
Where I could spend that 1.2 sec if I am late for the LvB CD for 0.3sec?[...]
I am personnally not fan about waiting method even for short time, specially because i feel latency have a bigger impact on wait time than on spam time.
But 1.2s is too big to be wasted anyway, on that case you should use chain lightning which dps is ~ lightning bolt but has a 1.5s unhasted cast time. That's how you use CL nowadays, to fill "wait" time.
That's will give you FS LvB LB LB LB LB CL LvB which you can turn into FS LvB LB LB CL LB LB LvB, because you want to have 2 LB after LvB (clearcasting is up and a LB makes more dmg than a CL if you do not consider cast time) and to maximize chance than clearcasting is up when casting LvB (for +10% dmg) and LB has a better chance to crit than CL (because of overload chance are 20% to 7%) if i am not wrong.
Originally Posted by Alexfix
[...]Edited: Have looked through the log. Figured out that during the combat the time between LvB is 10sec and i got 4 LB and 1 CL or 5 LB between LvB. I that ok?
It sounds right. Min time between LvB is 8s + LvB cast time so 9.2s unbloosted in your case, you can probably do a bit better than 10s but it won't bring you 1000 more dps anyway
Originally Posted by Alexfix
[...]PS. I provided my WWS on the previous page, but it is in Russian[...]
You're in resto stuff in armory so it's hard to say what's wrong because your dps is actually a bit low (even more considering that 2:2x is a good raid perfomance which boost your own dps as proportionnally you spend more time bloodlusted than a 3mn fight).
Usually it's because of bad gear choice (remember (hit >) spell power >> haste > crit), consummables (flask, potion) have some impact too.
Curtis, thank you for your comments mate. I will try the rotation you suggested. Will have my Naxx WWS today evening, some new data to dig
I dig my prevous WWS and found following casting times:
52.05.672 - LvB
52.06.297 - CL
52'09.156 - 1 LB
52'10.875 - 2 LB
52'12.437 - 3 LB
52'14.125 - 4 LB
52'15.422 - LvB
There was no damage about 3 sec between CL and 1 LB and the same data through all rotation in the combat when used the CL.
So, I have the answere to my question regarding 4-5 lb between LvBs, I did 4-5LBs but was not so attentive to the rotation. But here is another problem, why 1LB cast took me almost 3sec to land? after that LB cast seems ok, about 1.688-1.7
[...]So, I have the answere to my question regarding 4-5 lb between LvBs, I did 4-5LBs but was not so attentive to the rotation. But here is another problem, why 1LB cast took me almost 3sec to land? after that LB cast seems ok, about 1.688-1.7
It's because chain lightning immediatly lands when cast is finish, but for LvB and LB you have to be aware there is a travel time (bolt leave your hands, fly to the boss, then hit the boss).
So your 3s = 1.7s of cast time and 1.3s of travel time
edit :
Anyway do not pressure yourself about being that tight about rotations, of course it will help but not that much you can think. I do not use any planned rotation, am a perfect idiot playing the FS/LvB game and spamming LB with a CL here or there, and i always had good figures for my stuff i think (from 4300 with naxx10/blue/healing items not being jewelcrafter to 5200 not being that good with a enhanced glyph, cause as i told you am an idiot -last week, hadn't dying curse, T7.5 helm and KT shield at that time, all on 3mn base fight ~).
I mean setting your gear choice and enchants, proper CD usage, bringing consummables and avoiding 3s brain lag ("omg do i wait or not ???") is 90% of the job, maybe people won't agree but i don't think you gain more than 200-300dps being great at rotation instead of being ok, and being ok is not difficult. Not that you do not want to work them, but imo it is the last thing to do.
02/20/09, 10:49 PM
Similar Threads
