Ghando

Figure out what your stats would be in an optimally gemmed and enchanted setup with the gown and with the T7 chest. But yeah, the Maly10 chest is stupidly good..

I'm a Shaman.

 

Manpile

Figure I'll ask in this thread as well for optimal results!

The World of Warcraft Armory

(I am probably logged out in my valorous earthshatter kilt but imagine the 226s in their place) Tonight I picked up [Leggings of the Wanton Spellcaster] and the hit on them is absolutely ridiculous. I replaced my [Valorous Earthshatter Kilt]

Unfortunately they put me a little overhit cap, but I can't do anything about that until razuvious drops my belt. But anyway some questions arose. How good is the 4 piece bonus? Is the 10% critical strike bonus additive or multiplicative? Does anyone have any ideas as to how much of a DPS boost it is?

Second question, partly related, is whether or not I should go for [Valorous Earthshatter Gloves] The hit rating on them is great but I will have way more hit rating than I'll know what to do with, likely going to opt for wraith strike over my current weapon. But the gloves, as everyone knows, are horribly itemized. The mp5 is absolutely atrocious, to the point where I'm not sure whether it's worth getting my 4 piece if it means resorting to inferior gear like that.

tl;dr version:

Valorous Helm/Shoulders/Chest/Legs

vs

Valorous Helm/Shoulders/Chest/Hands with 226 legs

vs

Valorous Helm/Shoulders/Chest with 226 legs and non-terrible gloves

and what is the ep value of our 4 piece? It will improve next patch as the spell damage coefficient gets better too right?

 

tufy

Basically

With set bonus: [base damage] + 0.545 * (1 + [elemental fury] + [lava flows] + [T7 4-set]) = 1 + 0.545 * (1 + 1 + 0.24 + 0.1) = 2.2753

Without set bonus: 2.2208

Difference: 2.2753 / 2.2208 = 1.0245 -> 2.45% damage on each LvB.

Since LvB represents roughtly 25% of our damage, that's 2.45 * 0.25 = 0.61%

As you can see, the bonus is extremely low.

P.S.: Wraith Strike <3

Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.

 

Cragen

Right now I'm so close to my dream gear it's almost scary.

Only miss Torch of Holy Fire and Signet of Manifested Pain from heroic Kel'Thuzad, and Illustration of the Dragon Soul and Pennant Cloak from Sartharion.

That is about it really. So I just need that and get 375 jewelcrafting for the 3x prismatic 32 spellpower gems and I might as well take a long break till Uludar :P

Now I havn't done any math on this gear, but just used commen sence really. But from what you guys have written it should be close to the best gear we can get without wasting stats.
I only use two 16 hit gems, and one 8 hit/9 spellpower to be completely hit capped, and you don't get any
useless stats like MP/5 or spirit (except for the 15 MP/5 on the mace, but unless we can magicly learn to use swords it's the best item in slot for us)

But, right now the only item, I'm a bit unsure about is Embrace of the Spider. If I should stick to that or use Sundial of the Exiled. Would test it out my self, but Kazzak is lagging like crazy so have yet to get a proper Patchwerk
kill to use as a baseline when it comes to my personal dps.

 

Vistol

Maybe i'm just an idiot but do we have an existing model for what the [Chaotic Skyflare Diamond] is worth?

Ohh great i have 8 Main tanks signed up again and 4 healers.

 

Ezareth

At max current gear in a raid environment it works out to 60 DPS.

If you can get the equivalent of 50-60 more spellpower by dropping the set bonus, then do it.

And chaotic Skyflare is so good that nothing has approached it in terms of being nearly as useful for DPS.

 

Mmootimus

What its worth is dependant on your gear. What it does is make your crits do 209% of base damage.

I believe Bink valued the set bonus at 23 DEP, and my calculations come very close to that also. Personally I would definitely prefer even as little as 30 spellpower over T7 4-pc.


@Katalyna
As for the Gown from Malygos, yes, its very good. Personally my one big gear mistake in WotLK so far was passing on it - although at least one of our priests has more reliable MC now.

Its not entirely clear whether you are able to maintain the 4-pc bonus or what your gear options are. Its also going to matter where you stand in relation to the hit cap. All I can say really is that imho the Gown is a better item than T7, and a very "cheap" way to get +hit in terms of the stats lost. If you are breaking the T7 set bonus just to use it though then the benefits will be very marginal.

 

Vistol

Yes i get that it is a function of spellpower, cirt, and average spell usage. however my multi variable calculus is very much out of practice and i was looking for a functional model if one existed.

Ohh great i have 8 Main tanks signed up again and 4 healers.

 

Bromance

In regards to Benfactor's Gauntlets...

I'm pretty happy with my gear right now, even my Tier 7 gloves. I think I have the best ring combo (Manifest Pain / Wyrmrest) because there's just no good hit ring in the game right now, so I settle with mp5 (I'm debating a Titanium Spellshock Ring, even though it's only an extra 7 SP). I picked up Benefactor's Gauntlets and ya they're pretty nice but I don't know how I could possibly equip them and remain hit capped.

With a Runed Scarlet Ruby in Valorous gloves (96 SP total), it's hard to pass up on them. Benefactor's would give less SP, and it's not like I need the crit and haste. Ideally, very little of my gear will have mp5 on it anyway, so I don't mind having some on my gloves. Yes Benefactor's Gauntlets are arguably BIS and I'd love to wear them but I see absolutely no logical way to make it work.

 

Mmootimus

[Signet of the Malevolent]?

I would also say [Signet of the Kirin Tor] and [Band of Guile] are better than Wyrmrest, although to be fair its pretty marginal.

 

Starcrossed

There is always more than one way to skin a cat, but [Benefactor's Gauntlets] is BiS and here's an ideal set that one can consider:

Helm – [Valorous Earthshatter Helm]
Neck – [Wyrmrest Necklace of Power]
Shoulders – [Valorous Earthshatter Shoulderpads]
Cloak - [Pennant Cloak]
Chest – [Valorous Earthshatter Hauberk]
Bracers – [Bands of Mutual Respect]
Main Hand – [Wraith Strike]
Shield – [Voice of Reason]
Totem – [Totem of Hex]
Hands – [Benefactor's Gauntlets]
Waist – [Girdle of Recuperation]
Legs – [Valorous Earthshatter Kilt]
Feet – [Eruption-Scarred Boots]
Ring 1 – [Signet of Manifested Pain]
Ring 2 – [Signet of the Malevolent]
Trinket 1 – [Dying Curse]
Trinket 2 – [Illustration of the Dragon Soul]

I always appreciate the discussion here (although rarely ever contribute). Best regards.

 

Mmootimus

@Starcrossed
Exactly what I am aiming for. With the exception that Torch of Holy Fire is preferable to Wraith Strike. Considering its best-in-slot for us and Shadow Priests (and possibly other DPS) its not unreasonable to ask for it, despite the mp/5.

And now I will try and stop posting in this thread so much.

 

Bromance

If I use Signet of the Malevolent, I'd be hit capped (with precision enchant) and could then equip Benefactor's Gauntlets.

I would gain 38 crit / 51 haste, and lose 29 sp / 34 mp5. I hate losing SP, especially with the buffs coming, but that could be a better combo, good call man

 

Tarwin

I like Footsteps of Malygos in the Feet slot better. Assuming you are putting a Runed Scarlet Ruby in the Eruption-Scared Boots, you are gaining 18 Haste while losing 7 SP, 1 Crit and 5 Int by going with the Footsteps. The advantage of the Eruption-Scared is a gem slot if you are not hit-capped.

 

• Binkenstein

No, we do not. Given the fact that I can unequivocally say that CSD is so much better than any other meta gem available, I am really worried that so many people want a) "values" or models for it, and b) want to know the same thing for other metas. Is 9% extra damage when you crit really that hard to compare to say, a 25 sp meta with 2% bonus int?

[sarcasm]Thanks for that stellar contribution. [/sarcasm]

I think we should stay away from "I want this gear" or "this is my BiS gear list" discussions. This thread should be for people going "I need some help improving my dps. I'm doing blah blah blah" with important details such as WWS postings (We can get armory links from your profile). Then we can say "I think you should re-gem this" or "have you considered getting item X?".

 

Vistol

Well it is preaty clear that [Torch of Holy Fire] is best in slot by a fairly big margin, most likely you would be doing your guild a disservice by taking it over [Wraith Strike] (at least early on) with its much more limited class usage.

Should be noted in any gear listings.

Ohh great i have 8 Main tanks signed up again and 4 healers.

 

Starcrossed

I thought that this thread was an "[Elemental] WWS & Gearing help thread." I was attempting to help him get a feel for what gear he can find for hit and was sincere in my intentions. My list was not a "'I want this gear' or 'this is my BiS gear list'" discussion, but - rather - a way that one can look at it (not a final word).

 

Ghando

I'm not sure how big a margin. 60 SP is a lot, but at the same time you're trading a good chunk of crit for what is essentially a wasted/useless stat in mp5. Torch will remain BIS just because SP scales better than anything else but it's not a as big an upgrade as you might think.

I'm a Shaman.

 

Ezareth

I wouldn't. The 4 Piece bonus is definately increasing your damage more than 30 SP would unless you are in horrible gear, in some solo environment.


Torch is easily best in slot to its item level, but I'd never take it over a healer. MP5 is wasted stats for us, but useful for them. If your guild lets you bid on it great, but I'd personally just feel guilty.

 

Sjera

I would dispute this. My best calculations for it show it to be worth 24dps.
I've recently abandoned the t7 4 piece bonus in favour of grabbing more haste.

If I get any noticeable loss of dps I'll let you know - but I think the claim that its worth 60 spell power is doubtful at best.
I guess if I'm wrong, I'll notice at the next Patchwerk fight.

 

uffdabock

I have been comparing level 200 items & also 213 items that I will shooting for in 25man content. I know that I will want spell dmg, hit rating, haste rating and crit rating. (intellect and mp5 are not even worth looking at imo).

Once you are geared with 10 man loot and prepared for 25 man content, especially if you are a JC, you shouldn't have to G.I.M.P yourself by taking lower level items just to get hit capped. You can always accommodate by re-gemming. As a JC I get to use 3x [Rigid Dragon's Eye], combined with [Snapper Extreme] thats 121 hit Rating. Having Heroes' Earthshatter helm/chest/shoulders/legs will give you ~110 more hit rating even with socketing for the bonuses. I recommend using [Plush Sash of Guzbah] to get 69 more rating (using a belt buckle with 2 hit gems). Just by having 4/5 t7 & that belt you have ~300 hit rating with gems and consumables. Adding 3% more from talents and 3% from Misery/Faerie Fire and your close to capped.

By looking at how blizzard values each stat in their gems: 19/32 spell power = 16/27 rating<haste/hit/crit>, I use that as a guideline and treat any [1] point of rating = to any other point of rating or [~1.2] spell damage. (19/16 = ~1.2)

So to me, [1] socket is worth 16 rating, if it's blue, I usually can just put a dragon's eye gem in there and still get the bonus.

Looking at the boot gear slot: There are 3 level 213 boots that avoid the dreaded healer stats (mana/5 & spirit)
Here is how I recommend comparing their stats:

[Boots of Impetuous Ideals] 37hitR+55hasteR=92R + 88sd [88x1.2=~106] so 92+106 = 198 gear points
42critR+38hasteR=80R + 16R<socket> =96R + 78sd + 5sd<socket bonus> [83x1.2=~100] so 96+100 = 196 gear points
[Footsteps of Malygos] 41critR+56hasteR=97R + 90sd [90x1.2=~108] so 97+108 = 205 gear points

Assuming I had 4 piece t7 I wouldn't have an available dragon's eye gem. So I would have to decide If i wanted to socket with a purple/green gem to get the bonus or a better gem to avoid wasted stats. But when I make these comparisons I just like to treat every socket = 16rating + gaining the bonus. However, dealing with a blue socket is a reason I will try to avoid getting these boots.

So what I have determined using my system is that the [Footsteps of Malygos] are nice upgrade over the other 2 boots. There are two things I have noticed. Any item with more stamina then an equal item level item for that slot, will have less dps stats, and should be avoided. Also, because +hitR gives you the most % per rating point, gear with +hit will have less gear points then gear with haste & crit. But that is not the case for gems.

This is why I recommend using +hit gems and [Snapper Extreme] to acquire the cap. Not using lower level items or items that end up having less stats because they have points wasted in mana/5, stamina, spirit & intellect. Once you are hit capped deciding the value of critR vs hasteR vs sd is up to the simulator.

 

Mmootimus

There is 25-man content you need to prepare for? Damn, must have missed that. Anyway, I digress...

In response to you and someone else who mentioned it, yes, I would agree the Footsteps of Malygos are a small upgrade over the mail boots from 25 man Naxx. I am not sure how much point there is continuing the best-in-slot discussions, but
regardless I would personally treat them as a bonus and aim for pure Mail gear, as you may not get a roll on cloth/leather depending on your guild.

As for your system of determining stats, whilst its not the worst way in the world of doing it, you are ignoring an awful lot of good advice in terms of what stats would actually boost your DPS the most. Blizzards itemisation budget =/= a good stat weighting for Ele shamans, and you will hurt your DPS if you assume it does. A fairly easy thing to correct though - given how much info there is on stat weighting here - including a very well made spreadsheet.

And since you posted in the gearing help thread, I would just like to say - please stop gemming for crit...

 

uffdabock

My ele / resto gear is pretty bad atm, as you can tell. Today is my first day as elemental or resto spec since level 70. I gemmed for crit so I can use the shoulders / pants / helm / belt for elemental and resto spec. I would have gemmed for pure spell power, but my saronite ore only wants to produce monarch topaz's >.>

 

drock903

Hmm. This is in direct contrast from this post.

http://elitistjerks.com/1037363-post17.html

Anyone else have any thoughts?

 

Mmootimus

Its not that hard to do a ratio of spellpower (or spellpower equivalent) lost to hit gained, and work all this out. On this basis then its easy to see that Snapper Extreme is a marginally better choice than +hit gems (although personally I haven't used that food generally, as I don't want to be under hitcap if I ankh, and it gives me options if we lack a SPriest).

If we are talking about getting close to best in slot, then gems are a good, but not the ideal way to get hitcapped, unless you are also hitting a decent set bonus (as with T7 legs or Plush Sash). A lot of the item choices discussed over the last few pages are really about the "cheapest" way to get hit, in terms of other stats lost.