Not sure where to put this but in the think tank for Elemental SHaman
"Spell Use
Proper spell use is very important to maximising dps. For Elemental, it revolves around making sure that LvB is used as often as possible, maximising FS dot ticks, and making sure that LB is used as little as possible while not wasting time."
Is that a correct statement?
use LB as little as possible?
I believe that was written pre-3.08 when CL was relatively a much stronger source of DPS. As such there was at the time a lot more TC about cramming in as many CLs as possible,
However, until Ulduar arrived CL was still better DPS - albeit marginally - than LB. When you pick up the additional haste from Ulduar gear, and 4-pc T8 bonus, that may change. However, for the average shaman right now that advice is just about still technically correct. Given the small DPS gain of using CL, most do now only use it as a filler though.
I believe that was written pre-3.08 when CL was relatively a much stronger source of DPS. As such there was at the time a lot more TC about cramming in as many CLs as possible,
However, until Ulduar arrived CL was still better DPS - albeit marginally - than LB. When you pick up the additional haste from Ulduar gear, and 4-pc T8 bonus, that may change. However, for the average shaman right now that advice is just about still technically correct. Given the small DPS gain of using CL, most do now only use it as a filler though.
So is itsaying that rotation ishould be CL filler between FS / Lvb /Lvb ? And in the Haste section LB is used to show DPS. So I'm just wondering if there is something Im missing.
I've recently switched from mainly raiding as resto to now being elemental, and I have a lot of the gear to support it, except any true DPS trinkets. I finally got enough hit to where I don't necessarily need a hit trinket and am looking into what to use until I get some true caster trinket drops. My choices are a combination of [Forethought Talisman][Je'Tze's Bell] and I could buy a [Sundial of the Exiled] with badgesif it is really better. I could also use [Elemental Focus Stone] for hit and dump my ring with hit to get the crafted ring made if that seems better.
I know we scale really well with spellpower and that crit is a poor stat, but I wasn't sure how much the healing and Mp% procs make my current trinkets a poor choice in the interim.
I have one fast question out of curiousity. I'm still hammering out some math, but as an engineer, I just got a hold of the parachute enchant (18SP to cloak). Would it be more optimal to pick that over our traditional 23 haste? I know engineering is very gimmicky, but given we want SP a great deal, what do ya'll think?
I think all three of the last posters could do well by finding some stat weightings and go a long way to answering their own questions (downloading the SEIC spreadsheet and using the ones there is a good start).
@ Tongpro - Your gear looks fine. There are better rings than the Titanium one easily available, and you have chosen two strange gems to hit your meta, but otherwise its looks perfect.
Conqueror's Worldbreaker Headpiece(Resto Version)
Pendant of Fiery Havoc
Conqueror's Worldbreaker Shoulderpads
Conqueror's Worldbreaker Hauberk
Belt of the Fallen Wyrm
Bindings of Winter Gale
Conqueror's Worldbreaker Gloves
Conqueror's Worldbreaker Kilt
Treads of the False Oracle
Drape of Mortal Downfall
Signet of Manifested Pain
Frozen Loop
Flare of the Heavens
Illustration of the Dragon Soul
Soulscribe
Wisdom's Hold
Totem of Hex
This is giving me 72 Stam, 100 Int, 286 Spellpower, 2.56% Haste, 3.27% Crit, and .42 Hit over my BIS pre-3.1 gearing.
This is the breakdown of the items with socketing, enchants, etc. BIS Spreadsheet
I was able to get 2 piece T8 tonite and [Thunderfall Totem]. I lost 4PC T7.5 but thought the damage from thunderfall totem would make up for it. I replaced [Glyph of Lightning Bolt] with the totem of wrath glyph. I was just curious as to if this was a smart decision. Also if it would be smart to switch the Thunderfall Totem and the glyph of totem of wrath back to the original 2 once i get 4PC.
I was able to get 2 piece T8 tonite and [Thunderfall Totem]. I lost 4PC T7.5 but thought the damage from thunderfall totem would make up for it. I replaced [Glyph of Lightning Bolt] with the totem of wrath glyph. I was just curious as to if this was a smart decision. Also if it would be smart to switch the Thunderfall Totem and the glyph of totem of wrath back to the original 2 once i get 4PC.
No, you should be reading this thread and Bink's blog. Totem of Hex is better, and you should be replacing Glyph of Lava, not Glyph of Lightning Bolt.
Conqueror's Worldbreaker Headpiece(Resto Version)
Pendant of Fiery Havoc
Conqueror's Worldbreaker Shoulderpads
Conqueror's Worldbreaker Hauberk
Belt of the Fallen Wyrm
Bindings of Winter Gale
Conqueror's Worldbreaker Gloves
Conqueror's Worldbreaker Kilt
Treads of the False Oracle
Drape of Mortal Downfall
Signet of Manifested Pain
Frozen Loop
Flare of the Heavens
Illustration of the Dragon Soul
Soulscribe
Wisdom's Hold
Totem of Hex
This is giving me 72 Stam, 100 Int, 286 Spellpower, 2.56% Haste, 3.27% Crit, and .42 Hit over my BIS pre-3.1 gearing.
This is the breakdown of the items with socketing, enchants, etc. BIS Spreadsheet
Leggings of the Enslaved Idol would be better then T8.5 as long as you keep the set bonus', also I think Eye of the Broodmother would be a better trinket then Flare of the Heavens. I don't have charts to back it up, but it would make more sense to have the 125 SP and 1.9% crit from the Broodmother then the chance on proc damage with 2% crit from Heavens.
I think Eye of the Broodmother would be a better trinket then Flare of the Heavens. I don't have charts to back it up, but it would make more sense to have the 125 SP and 1.9% crit from the Broodmother then the chance on proc damage with 2% crit from Heavens.
Why would it make more sense exactly? Assuming the Flare proccs once per minute, then its spellpower is equivalent to ~140. Meanwhile the bonus from the Eye will also always be slightly less than 125SP in any fight, due to the charge up time at the start.
Edit: To avoid confusion, actual stats on the Flare are not as listed on WoWHead. They are: Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 120
Equip: Your harmful spells have a chance to increase your spell power by 850 for 10 sec
Why would it make more sense exactly? Assuming the Flare proccs once per minute, then its spellpower is equivalent to ~140. Meanwhile the bonus from the Eye will also always be slightly less than 125SP in any fight, due to the charge up time at the start.
Edit: To avoid confusion, actual stats on the Flare are not as listed on WoWHead. They are: Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 120
Equip: Your harmful spells have a chance to increase your spell power by 850 for 10 sec
Ah, ya Wowhead was showing it was like the Extract of Necrotic Power which I though he was going for because of Flame Shock and the T8 4 Set bonus.
But even so, wouldn't the constant 125 SP (Once charged up) scale better with the T8 4 set bonus over the burst of the proc of the flare? Although fights are somewhat long now, so you get alot of use out of the Flare, soon people are gonna get to the point where boss' are lasting 3-4 mins which, if the Flare procs 1/min, is only 2-3 useful procs. And thats saying that it procs off the first Flame Shock at the beginning of the fight which is somewhat unlikely every time you go into a boss battle.
I personally don't care for the procing trinkets. There is too much movement in the new fights to optimize them. You are correct obviously in which is better in theory but in practice I am of the differing opinion.
I hadn't experienced this issue before this week's clear, but there's clearly a lot of damage missing from Lava Burst. I was having a hard time cracking 5 digits all night.
Why would it make more sense exactly? Assuming the Flare proccs once per minute, then its spellpower is equivalent to ~140. Meanwhile the bonus from the Eye will also always be slightly less than 125SP in any fight, due to the charge up time at the start.
Edit: To avoid confusion, actual stats on the Flare are not as listed on WoWHead. They are: Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 120
Equip: Your harmful spells have a chance to increase your spell power by 850 for 10 sec
Assuming the Flare averages out to 140 sp is probably a worse assumption than saying the eye averages to 125 spell power; as proc's can proc at inopportune times.
In fact much like many people already do with the dragon soul, you could pre-load the stacks before you start the pull.
Ohh great i have 8 Main tanks signed up again and 4 healers.
Ezareth's BiS list got me thinking; Is the thinking we will now have to start gemming or chanting for hit more frequently now? I'm thinking it might be easier to use the Living Flame off of Razorscale 25 in place of the Illustration just to get capped nice and quickly.
Leggings of the Enslaved Idol would be better then T8.5 as long as you keep the set bonus
The only way to keep the set bonus while also switching to those pants would be to switch his helm choice to the ele helm instead of the resto helm... and now you've given him a pointless 70 extra hit. He'd have to change his gearing all around to accommodate them.
Conqueror's Worldbreaker Headpiece(Resto Version)
Pendant of Fiery Havoc
Conqueror's Worldbreaker Shoulderpads
Conqueror's Worldbreaker Hauberk
Belt of the Fallen Wyrm
Bindings of Winter Gale
Conqueror's Worldbreaker Gloves
Conqueror's Worldbreaker Kilt
Treads of the False Oracle
Drape of Mortal Downfall
Signet of Manifested Pain
Frozen Loop
Flare of the Heavens
Illustration of the Dragon Soul
Soulscribe
Wisdom's Hold
Totem of Hex
This is giving me 72 Stam, 100 Int, 286 Spellpower, 2.56% Haste, 3.27% Crit, and .42 Hit over my BIS pre-3.1 gearing.
This is the breakdown of the items with socketing, enchants, etc. BIS Spreadsheet
The only way to keep the set bonus while also switching to those pants would be to switch his helm choice to the ele helm instead of the resto helm... and now you've given him a pointless 70 extra hit. He'd have to change his gearing all around to accommodate them.
So, instead of Frozen Loop he could use Pyrelite Circle. That would be 283 hit rating just from gear, and would give an extra gem slot in the pants plus the extra SP on the pants alone.
I personally don't care for the procing trinkets. There is too much movement in the new fights to optimize them. You are correct obviously in which is better in theory but in practice I am of the differing opinion.
I am sure people are thinking about procc vs static bonus trinkets in the wrong way.
Look at it in the long term. Sometimes the procc will go off at a great time (eg. in a cloud at Hodir with BL up). Sometimes it will go off at an average time (eg. normal nuking), sometimes it will go off at a bad time (eg. just as you start to move from AOE).
The fact is the same is true of a static trinket. Sometimes it gives you more benefit, sometimes average, and sometimes none, depending on the situation. If you spend 20% of a fight not casting, then you will waste 20% of a static trinket's benefit, just as you will miss 20% of the proccs on average from a procc trinket.
You could argue that a procc trinket is a more variable source of damage, especially in the short term, but in the long term there is no reason a procc based trinket will lose any more of its benefit to movement etc. than a static one.
Two weeks ago, Lava Burst performing as expected with a delta of a couple thousand damage on top-end crits:
I hadn't experienced this issue before this week's clear, but there's clearly a lot of damage missing from Lava Burst. I was having a hard time cracking 5 digits all night.
Not sure if this is the best thread to post this in, but looking for a query about elemental shaman design
I raid Ulduar and occasionally we have another elemental shaman. Which brought up the question about dropping other fire totems.
Is Elemental Shamans DPS supposed to include the DPS from a searing or Magma totem, or is it based on the concept that we drop ToW?
By my basic calculations Searing totem would grant:
105 average base damage.
16.67% coefficient per attack
2919 spell power (when raid buffed)
Total 592 damage per shot
1.15 for call of flame
1.13 for Earth and moon/CoE/Ebon plague
1.03 from ret paly
592*1.13*1.15*1.03 = 792 damage per shot
(unsure if elemental Oath 10% more spelldamage would affect Searing totem or not?)
Crit rate of about 45%, gives 792*2.09*0.45 + 792*(1-0.45)= 1180 average damage, per 2 seconds. = 590 DPS.
That's about 10-12% of my theoretical Maximum DPS.
So is the DPS of elemental shaman supposed to incorporate this 590 DPS (e.g. we are 5% behind Mages including this 590 DPS), or is this additional to our normal DPS?
Its probably been talked about before, but now we have WotLK and there are no unique buffs, are there any other classes that have to drop DPS in order to provide buffs to their raid? Even Ret paladins now get their +3% damage buff no matter their aura.
So, anyone know if we're expected to drop ToW as part of our design, and when we don't have to we are 10-12% over our designed DPS, or we're designed to drop searing totem and by dropping ToW we are performing 10-12% sub optimally?
TBH, if we could use searing totem (even if its a PITA to use) its non-burst additional DPS which means it could be included without affecting our PvP burst which people already complain about.
I found one comment that said "If we could drop searing totem we'd be catching up with Mage/Warlock DPS". Maybe that's intended? Couldn't find anything else about this so far on EJ. Sorry if I missed something.
I am sure people are thinking about procc vs static bonus trinkets in the wrong way.
Look at it in the long term. Sometimes the procc will go off at a great time (eg. in a cloud at Hodir with BL up). Sometimes it will go off at an average time (eg. normal nuking), sometimes it will go off at a bad time (eg. just as you start to move from AOE).
The fact is the same is true of a static trinket. Sometimes it gives you more benefit, sometimes average, and sometimes none, depending on the situation. If you spend 20% of a fight not casting, then you will waste 20% of a static trinket's benefit, just as you will miss 20% of the proccs on average from a procc trinket.
You could argue that a procc trinket is a more variable source of damage, especially in the short term, but in the long term there is no reason a procc based trinket will lose any more of its benefit to movement etc. than a static one.
Once agian, I agree with your theory, but not with your conclusion. As you said, a proc trinket will go off at great times, average times and bad times. Put all those times together and you get the average amount that that trinket is worth for the fight. That average(whether is be a long fight or short fight) more than likely will not it's full theory value, and in some cases not even close. So, it comes down to whatever that average is versus the static trinket's worth; which I believe will be lower due to the mechanics in ulduar.
I hadn't experienced this issue before this week's clear, but there's clearly a lot of damage missing from Lava Burst. I was having a hard time cracking 5 digits all night.
Welcome to the club )=
I just noticed it this week myself. I'm dreading having to spend hours to exactly pinpoint the problem.....I was kind of hoping Blizzard would be able to do that for us.
Originally Posted by Igtenos
Once agian, I agree with your theory, but not with your conclusion. As you said, a proc trinket will go off at great times, average times and bad times. Put all those times together and you get the average amount that that trinket is worth for the fight. That average(whether is be a long fight or short fight) more than likely will not it's full theory value, and in some cases not even close. So, it comes down to whatever that average is versus the static trinket's worth; which I believe will be lower due to the mechanics in ulduar.
I disagree. Average in this case is what the trinket is "balanced" around which gives it better stats than any static trinket.
04/27/09, 3:43 PM
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