[Elemental] WWS & Gearing help thread - Page 72

Arkal_de · 08/19/09, 4:42 AM

Originally Posted by Ghando

Algalon is a very melee-friendly fight and I wouldn't expect to perform that will on the meters. Before 3.2 I felt like we were actually competitive on Algalon; I was the top ranged DPS on our first kill. But since 3.2 our damage has just fallen off relative to other classes who received various buffs to their damage, and without another band-aid buff a la Totem of Wrath Glyph it'll probably stay that way for a while. For reference, here's our Algalon kill from last week:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I don't recall having to move more than usual on that kill, though I have no quantitative way to back that up. FWIW, I don't use a Wild Magic potion during Bloodlust because the fight is so long that I feel the benefit is minimal (to be fair, the benefit is always minimal on a 6-minute fight). I use a Speed Potion in conjunction with my second EM during Phase 3. It's not a big deal either way.

Im doing almost 1k dps less than you on Algalon. After looking at your logs i found some weired things. For example, while this 6min fight your critrate is above the theoretical average, mine on the other hand is below the theoretical average. For the encounter we both have 100% uptime from: Moonkin Aura, Totem of Wrath, Retribution Aura and a ~95% uptime from Imp Scortch. We even had a higher uptime on Ebon Plaguebringer. Still i cant figure out why your critrate is so much higher (rng?) and you Lightning Bolt is hiting so much harder.

Here some averages from your and my log (all stats are with full raidbuffs):

	  Spellpower  Average LB  Simcraft average LB	Disparity    Critrate    Effective Critrate	Disparity
Arkal          3488           4474                     4443        0.70%      50.01%                45.60%      -4.41%
Ghando      3292*          4523                     4261        6.10%      49.53%                 55.60%      6.07%

* This is including Dying Curse uptime of 20%

Any help figuring out how Ghando can exceede theoretical averages by arround 6%?

Ferala · 08/19/09, 5:34 AM

It all really depends on the fight.

Fights with special haste stuff going on favor us. I am usually no1 dps on Vezax (we also don't go oom with Clearcasting) and Hodir (make sure to pick up a lot of storm buffs).

Fights where we dont have to move much i am usually subtop (XT - around 4th place since i have new totem). But Mimiron i am usually no1 dps (often not that much movement, especially when you are on head killing duty in p3). In p4 CL really shines and you can get ahead of the pack.

Fights with a lot of AOE (like razor), well forget about the dps and be happy it is over soon.

Since 3.2 i am relatively better off in the dps lists. All i got extra was the new totem.

Ongor · 08/19/09, 10:03 AM

i have been reading that the new t9 totem is better than hex due to the constant proc. i beleive blink said it was worth almost a 200-300dps increase.

is it worth the triumph badges to buy this or save up for the triumph tier. I have almost 50 badges and am waiting to get closer to decide if i want a trophy in order to get a peice of tier.

Ferala · 08/19/09, 10:38 AM

My guess: get the totem. With the tier item you might have to break the 4 piece bonus and you will need 2 to get the new 2 piece bonus. So if you want a direct upgrade take the new totem.

Wolfies · 08/19/09, 5:13 PM

I have the new totem now btw. But sometimes I'm still low on the meters in beginning of XT and sometimes I'm not. It also doesn't help that we move A LOT on Mimiron at least how we do it anyways. We basically have two groups that constantly move. Sigh. I feel as if its RNG. Because I never do anythign different and sometimes im top 8 but sometimes I'm near last.

Ghando · 08/19/09, 7:58 PM

Without question, you should get the Totem of Electrifying Wind (triumph badge totem) as soon as you can scrape together 25 badges. Even with some movement, the 200 haste rating has a 100% uptime. It's excellent and everyone should get it ASAP.

Junox · 08/20/09, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by Ferala

It all really depends on the fight.

Fights with special haste stuff going on favor us. I am usually no1 dps on Vezax (we also don't go oom with Clearcasting) and Hodir.

Here is some (really fun) proof of the hodir part:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Never thought I'd be able to sustain this, but with 37% crit (buffed, not including talents) it happened.

Ongor · 08/20/09, 2:11 AM

I am having a huge headache when it comes to fucking Algalon DPS.

here is a WoL of one of our better attempts of the night.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

any idea why its so low?

This link is Ghando's Parse from a 25m Algalon Kill:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Mylandah · 08/21/09, 1:06 PM

Originally Posted by Ongor

I am having a huge headache when it comes to fucking Algalon DPS.

here is a WoL of one of our better attempts of the night.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

any idea why its so low?

This link is Ghando's Parse from a 25m Algalon Kill:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Your kill time is 30 seconds longer than his, it may not be much that means you had less heroism uptime through the entire fight.

Also it depends on positioning....

Are you close to a black hole (in your groups assigned position) without moving for the Big Bang?

Are you constantly having to move from Cosmic Smashes?

You did about 150% the amount of Flame shocks he did, so I assume you had to run more... Thats why your DPS is most likely lower. You could also assign /target Algalon into your Lightning Bolts assuming you never deal with Stars, this will let you target him instantly after a big bang, however the DPS increase of doing that is 30 or less I can only assume.

I believe I did 5150 our last Algalon week (well a 7% enrage... we didn't kill him, dead people /sigh!) My assigned spot was next to Black Hole #4 (the one we keep up to run into) and most of the ranged is on the opposite side (of the black hole spawn) so I don't have to worry too much about Smashes.

In summary, Algalon DPS is relavent to movetime, less you move more you do!

Btw Junox thats pretty crazy :p 77% uptime on Storm Power D: Best I've done on Hodir is 15500 I think, but maybe only 3 or 4 storm powers xD Its mindboggling thinking of getting 5

Ghando · 08/21/09, 2:04 PM

Pretty much what Mylandah said. The key to Algalon more than anything else (there probably isn't much disparity in gear between high-end Ele Shamans at this point) is minimizing your movement and being as efficient as possible with that movement. This is true for most fights with movement (Firefighter, for example), but Algalon I think is more controllable.

Ghando · 08/25/09, 4:35 AM

Haste is good in that it becomes more valuable as you stack it. If between Bloodlust and Berserking your Lightning Bolts are under 1.0 seconds, you're haste capped and you should probably space those cooldowns out. In all likelihood they're still over 1.0 and you're getting the full benefit, which means you should continue to stack everything at the start where you know you won't have to move.

I was actually pretty happy with my Algalon DPS this week, though as usual it's near the bottom of the meters. The Vezax and Mimiron kills were pretty good as well:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Snoopy484 · 08/28/09, 1:26 PM

I have a few things I'd like to ask about, and I'm not sure if this is the right place to be asking all of these questions.

I have been looking at the stat weightings used in both spreadsheets and noticed that in Binkenstein's SEIC spreadsheet, haste is weighted heavier than spellpower by about 0.07, whereas the ESSE spreadsheet has haste weighted quite a bit below spellpower. I'm not really sure of the reasoning of either of these and was wondering if anyone could clarify on it.

Next, I'm proud to say that I have acquired my first trophy and am just about ready to pick up my first Tier 9 piece, and am trying to figure out which piece would be the better first buy:

The World of Warcraft Armory

I have all 5 pieces of T8.5, but dont have much flexibility yet in terms of rings to drop some hit for the pieces with hit(I am aware of the glove enchant, I'm waiting to do it myself).

Thanks in advance for your advice

Lisa · 08/28/09, 6:36 PM

I have the same question as snoopy - I'm looking at tier 9.5 and want to know which piece to get first - I'm thinking helm or chest but am not sure. I'll probably have to temporarily give up the shoulders i have and go back to the 4 piece t8 when i get the piece.

The World of Warcraft Armory

Falcon213 · 08/28/09, 9:17 PM

I would go for the helm, as it has no hit and it takes the place of your only non-set slot right now.

Ghando · 08/29/09, 5:54 PM

There's no particular piece of T9 that's hands-down better than another. Just look at your available gear and use the piece that allows you to most optimally keep the T8 4-piece bonus.