Could anyone tell me what exactly shamans are meant to do to reach the hit cap now? After the removal of a lot of our +hit talents, I don't really know what to do about it. I haven't seen any mail gear with hit on it in any heroics or 10-man Naxxramas, and to get to 17% hit by just gemming my tier gear seems a little....much. So far, I've just been picking up cloth and leather pieces with hit on them to fill in the gaps, but it really sucks to wear gear that has spirit on it. Are we not expected to reach the hit cap now? Is there something blindingly obvious that I'm missing? Feel free to berate me unmercifully if there is, but please tell me while doing so.
Last edited by thundermoose : 01/22/09 at 1:49 PM.
Reason: dumb spelling mistakes irritate me
Could anyone tell me what exactly shamans are meant to do to reach the hit cap now? After the removal of a lot of our +hit talents, I don't really know what to do about it. I haven't seen any mail gear with hit on it in any heroics or 10-man Naxxramas, and to get to 17% hit by just gemming my tier gear seems a little....much. So far, I've just been picking up cloth and leather pieces with hit on them to fill in the gaps, but it really sucks to wear gear that has spirit on it. Are we not expected to reach the hit cap now? Is there something blindingly obvious that I'm missing? Feel free to berate me unmercifully if there is, but please tell me while doing so.
You still get 3% from talents, and another 3% from raidbuffs, so you need to get 11% from gear. Try to get rings, cloaks, necks, trinkets and weapons with hit on them and gem the rest.
There is nothing wrong with using cloth and leather, but if possible try to stay away from the spirit gear. It's generally meant for healers, and there are cloth and leather with good dps stats and no spirit that you can use if you cannot find the hit elsewhere.
Going from 52 to 366 was annoying to think of, but less of a chore than I thought it would be.
Some useful sources of hit are:
+Icewalker boot enchant
+Plush Sash of Guzbah 35 badge belt w/ belt buckle +16 hit gem x2
+Mark of the War Prisoner from heroic VH
+Green 55 hit trinket from Dragonblight quest.
+Naxx10 trash BoE 10 man neck with +hit +haste +spell on it (cannot recall it's name).
+Neck from completing Sapphiron/Malygos
+Dying Curse trinket
+40 hit food (snapper extreme)
And so forth. Right now I'm an idiot and running at 250ish hit and relying on hit food to reach 290 hit (we raid with 1-2 shadow priests and one moonchicken). It's not the best way of doing things, but works out decently enough. If there isn't a moonchicken or shadow priest around though, 350-366 is usually the # to aim for, if I am not mistaken.
You still get 3% from talents, and another 3% from raidbuffs, so you need to get 11% from gear. Try to get rings, cloaks, necks, trinkets and weapons with hit on them and gem the rest.
I'm new to elemental, I spent all of BC as resto; could you tell me what classes give us the 3% hit in a raid? 11% looks to be a lot more manageable. 14% just seemed a little too much, since I'd have to gem exclusively for hit to get it.
O ok thank you Ezareth. I was not completely sure on the number, however, since it still seems somewhat low-medium amount do I need to bother putting an EP value for hit? For example when I am searching lootrank or determining an items value via EP. thanks
No I would not bother.
If we had a wide variety of choices in gear and enchants then I try to calculate the value of these items.
There are only a few items out there that are itemized well for us with hit, I would grab all of those items first.
Signet of the Malevolent
Dying Curse(or Mark of the War Prisoner)
Tier 7 Pants
Tier 7 Shoulder
Malygos Quest Neck
Icewalker Boot Enchant
Getting these items and gemming all of your yellow/prismatic with +hit gems will ensure your hit is capped.
You can make up another 20 hit at the cost of 28 spellpower by putting 20 hit on your gloves if you are missing a piece or two...as well as use a cheap +40 hit food.
I currently am only using one non yellow gem with hit on it, once Epic +20 hit gems come out that will be the first to go.
I've never been a fan of people putting "Values" to items and running through all these calculations on them. It is easy to "eyeball" which item is best for you.
I made a google spreadsheet of all the gear I wanted before WOTLK came out....it hasn't changed since then.
Some people on here I think take it a bit too far theorcrafting the best gear by including cloth etc in their gear, but the DPS gains by swapping out a couple pieces for cloth gear because it happens to be the only Ilvl 226 piece that is perfectly itemized doesn't justify it IMO.
Originally Posted by thundermoose
I'm new to elemental, I spent all of BC as resto; could you tell me what classes give us the 3% hit in a raid? 11% looks to be a lot more manageable. 14% just seemed a little too much, since I'd have to gem exclusively for hit to get it.
Form what I've seen Moonchickens dont take Imp FF because it screws up their rotations, so Shadow Priest is pretty much it. Either way I see no reason why any serious raiding guild wouldnt have a shadow priest in their lineup. Express to your guild leaders the need to recruit one.
The gear I listed above is all you need for raids to be hitcapped if you gem your gear properly. The cloth Badge waist is also a good hold-me-over plus gemming Hit/Mp5 blue gems in your blue slots while you are waiting on the rest to drop.
I would never use any of the other +hit items listed that include green etc unless you had nothing better to wear. Mark of the war prisoner and that +hit flame scalpel dagger are the only two blues with hit on them worth using IMO.
WWS Loading...
This is from Tuesday after the patch. And WWS is being stupid slow right now ><
The World of Warcraft Armory
Using the Benefactors Gauntlets, the 7.5 gloves are for my hit set i just forgot to take them off, and my ring gem....my JC slave didn't have the recipe and there weren't any in the AH so I had to compromise.
My question is how closely should I be paying attention to my LvB:FS ratio, doing my best to keep a priority type rotation and I was so excited to see the dps boost that I was a little sloppy on some of those fights. But in quite a few of them I am seeing 11:7 LvB:FS like on Grand widow. I know I refresh FS more than I need to but on some fights I'll just refresh it while I'm moving because I cant do much of anything else.
Losing 10 spellpower for 3 hit isn't a good trade.
If he missed .5-2% there was probably not a Spriest in his raid. I never miss and I'm 2 hit short of cap, that will correct itself when I upgrade to the 25 man neck from the 10 man sarth/maly neck.
Anecdotal evidence is not proof of something.
If you are 3 hit rating short of the cap, there is a 0.115% chance that you will miss a spell. Sure, you may not have noticeably missed any spells recently, but that does not mean that you won't.
Hey guys, finally got the guts to put up a post and see how to optimize my DPS.
First things first: Armory Link
-------------------- WWS from last nights Naxx run.
First of, i use a prioritized rotation of FS > LvB > CL > LB and "using" my trinkets/CD's whenever they're up. I just have a few questions about this though. Do we only use FS when it needs refreshing? Or spam it every 6 seconds its up? I tend to be doing a opener of FS, LvB, CL then LB spamming whatever is off CD. Then refreshing my FS dot whenever it reaches the 1-2 second mark.
Another question in terms of my DPS, i see plenty of shamans here able to get nearly 4.8K and above on a fight like Patchwerk. While i was only able to get around 4,323 DPS when a few hic-ups along the way where i would do a CL instead of a LvB when both are off cooldown at the same time. So what I'd like to know if there is any way that i can personally increase my DPS beyond gear and rotations? (Like to do the best i can in raids, so if its possible to hit 5K i want to hit it).
And finally (apologies for making the post run too long), but I'd like to get your guys opinions on whether the choices of gear i have gone for has indeed been correct:
* [Eruption-Scarred Boots] vs. [Footsteps of Malygos].
Personally i have been using the footsteps seeing that even though if i gem my Eruption-Scarred Boots it wouldn't still be worth losing stats between them. Though i did think that if i did gem my Eruption Boots with a [Rigid Autumn's Glow] i can then switch out one of my 27+ Hit gem with a 32+ SP one i can get another 32SP without the cost of losing too much Hit.
If you are 3 hit rating short of the cap, there is a 0.115% chance that you will miss a spell. Sure, you may not have noticeably missed any spells recently, but that does not mean that you won't.
Just wanted to add that this doesn´t change the fact that 10 spellpower is obviously better than 3 hit rating for dps regardless if you need it.
Just wanted to add that this doesn´t change the fact that 10 spellpower is obviously better than 3 hit rating for dps regardless if you need it.
Which was my entire point.
Reaching hit cap should be everyone's first priority when faced with the choice of stats.
Reaching hit cap at the expense of everything else should not.
I've been seeing a growing amount of people making faulty advice like the above based upon the assumption that if it puts you at hit cap it is the best choice.
Floating a some point slightly below hit cap will be a reality for a lot of people as they are waiting on a minor hit upgrade like my 10 man maly neck to the 25 man version or something similar.
A one in a thousand chance to miss against a boss is not worth the benefits of 10 spellpower, especially considering 17% hitcap isn't applied on trash or boss-trash.
I still have people trying to convince me that the Tier 7.5 gloves are our best in slot and it is getting frustrating trying to communicate to people a sense of understanding when everything to them is in black and white.
Originally Posted by Archicage
Hey guys, finally got the guts to put up a post and see how to optimize my DPS.
First things first: Armory Link
-------------------- WWS from last nights Naxx run.
First of, i use a prioritized rotation of FS > LvB > CL > LB and "using" my trinkets/CD's whenever they're up. I just have a few questions about this though. Do we only use FS when it needs refreshing? Or spam it every 6 seconds its up? I tend to be doing a opener of FS, LvB, CL then LB spamming whatever is off CD. Then refreshing my FS dot whenever it reaches the 1-2 second mark.
And finally (apologies for making the post run too long), but I'd like to get your guys opinions on whether the choices of gear i have gone for has indeed been correct:
* [Eruption-Scarred Boots] vs. [Footsteps of Malygos].
Personally i have been using the footsteps seeing that even though if i gem my Eruption-Scarred Boots it wouldn't still be worth losing stats between them. Though i did think that if i did gem my Eruption Boots with a [Rigid Autumn's Glow] i can then switch out one of my 27+ Hit gem with a 32+ SP one i can get another 32SP without the cost of losing too much Hit.
[Footsteps of Malygos] have 7 less spellpower, 1 less crit, 5 less int, all for 18 more haste and 10 stamina than [Eruption-Scared Boots] with +19 Spellpower.
However if you put the prismatic Spellpower gem in the eruption boots, they would have 18 More Spellpower, 1 more crit and 5 more int while having 18 less haste and 10 less stamina which makes the Eruption boots much better and you are sticking with mail.
If you want someone to check out your gearing/build please ensure you don't log out in PVP gear it makes it really hard to see if what you consider "BIS" is the same for us.
- There is not much difference between the boots, but personally I would favour the Footsteps of Malygos. This has been discussed earlier in the thread, and I think most people came to that conclusion, although its a small upgrade at best.
- As for your DPS, I think you have highlighted your main problem, in that you have a major flame shock addiction. The way you are using it right now you are wasting good DPS time by reapplying the FlS dot far too early. At Patchwerk for example you were casting FlS every 11.8 secs on average. That means you are wasting ~50% of the dot damage by over-writing your own buff.
As I understand it the ideal way to max DPS it to come as close to 100% FlS uptime as possible. However I think it is better to be 0.5 secs late with FlS, so it briefly drops off, than be 0.5 secs early and waste an existing dot tick.
E: Go back to post #160, and you will see 5K+ on Patch is quite possible . Those will a more skillful rotation than me, and true BIS gear will no doubt push it a few hundred higher at least.
- There is not much difference between the boots, but personally I would favour the Footsteps of Malygos. This has been discussed earlier in the thread, and I think most people came to that conclusion, although its a small upgrade at best.
- As for your DPS, I think you have highlighted your main problem, in that you have a major flame shock addiction. The way you are using it right now you are wasting good DPS time by reapplying the FlS dot far too early. At Patchwerk for example you were casting FlS every 11.8 secs on average. That means you are wasting ~50% of the dot damage by over-writing your own buff.
As I understand it the ideal way to max DPS it to come as close to 100% FlS uptime as possible. However I think it is better to be 0.5 secs late with FlS, so it briefly drops off, than be 0.5 secs early and waste an existing dot tick.
Yeah remember the dot is a TICK so cutting it off early isn't really .5 seconds....but 3 seconds in reality since it is a 3 second tick and you cut off the last 3 seconds of damage from the spell.
Rule of thumb is wait for flame shock to fall off then reapply on your next spell.
The only exception I can think of is if you get your rotation screwed up and your lava burst cooldown is coming up and you need to get your flame shock off in order to not clip your lava burst. In that case it is worth cutting off the last flameshock tick but normally in a rotation that shouldnt happen.
Yeah remember the dot is a TICK so cutting it off early isn't really .5 seconds....but 3 seconds in reality since it is a 3 second tick and you cut off the last 3 seconds of damage from the spell.
Rule of thumb is wait for flame shock to fall off then reapply on your next spell.
The only exception I can think of is if you get your rotation screwed up and your lava burst cooldown is coming up and you need to get your flame shock off in order to not clip your lava burst. In that case it is worth cutting off the last flameshock tick but normally in a rotation that shouldnt happen.
One thing I've been trying out is to actually leave flame shock off the target for around 2 to 3 seconds, and reapply it when there's around 2 seconds left on the Lava Burst cooldown. That way I never run in to the problem with having Lava Burst land right when your flame shock drops off and thing like that, it becomes more predictable.
But if it's in the end a increase or a decrease in my dps I'm not sure. I need to do more testing.
One thing I've been trying out is to actually leave flame shock off the target for around 2 to 3 seconds, and reapply it when there's around 2 seconds left on the Lava Burst cooldown. That way I never run in to the problem with having Lava Burst land right when your flame shock drops off and thing like that, it becomes more predictable.
This is exactly what I do. I apply Flame Shock immediately before every other Lava Burst so my cast sequence ends up being extremely regular. Like Cragen says, there's a trade-off here and because I'm bad at math I don't know exactly what is ideal. You're objectively losing damage probably about equal to a FS tick (you have less than 3s of downtime per cycle but you're also losing a little more damage from the initial nuke by not applying it earlier). On the other hand you're not going to lose a guaranteed LvB crit if you lag a little at the end of the FS DOT and you're not going to clip your LvB cooldown and you're not going to cause yourself a little extra dead time by having to re-apply FS when you have, say, 1.8s left on your LvB cooldown. I think the damage is ultimately a small difference and the convenience/reliability is really nice. In a high-lag environment this practice is even more advantageous.
My alt is a squiddy bugzapper and I am unsure whether the 4pc T7 bonus is really worth the loss in stats in the gear.
As far as I can tell, the T7.5 Hat, Shoulders and Pants are best in slot. I was planning on using the [Fallout Impervious Tunic] and [Benefactor's Gauntlets] instead of the tier. I mainly pug with my shaman, but I have the malygos robe socketed with veiled which is my no shadow priest chest, but I dont think I would use it if I had raid hit.
I use 2 Rigid Dragon's Eye and 1 Runed for hit purposes, so that seems the best sink for my hit troubles.
After reading the thread I will probly pick up the hit offhand instead of the badge resto shield, so I might convert another Dragon's eye to Runed. Thanks for that.
If you want someone to check out your gearing/build please ensure you don't log out in PVP gear it makes it really hard to see if what you consider "BIS" is the same for us.
- As for your DPS, I think you have highlighted your main problem, in that you have a major flame shock addiction. The way you are using it right now you are wasting good DPS time by reapplying the FlS dot far too early. At Patchwerk for example you were casting FlS every 11.8 secs on average. That means you are wasting ~50% of the dot damage by over-writing your own buff.
I'll keep it in mind, I'm amazed at the amount of DPS you were able to do. Hopefully the [Dying Curse] will finally drop since i really like the stats on the thing.
I'll keep it in mind, I'm amazed at the amount of DPS you were able to do. Hopefully the [Dying Curse] will finally drop since i really like the stats on the thing.
Thanks alot btw =D
Whilst I appreciate the compliment, having seen your gear you should be capable of the same or more DPS yourself, assuming a decent raid group composition, and a server no laggier than mine (which isn't saying much).
Only other pointer I can give you is that assuming you raid with a SPriest you are way over the hit cap. Replacing some +hit gems with +dmg ones will give you a slight boost, but to be honest its fixing your rotation that will help you the most.
01/22/09, 1:17 PM
. Those will a more skillful rotation than me, and true BIS gear will no doubt push it a few hundred higher at least.
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