I know the thread has been derailed more than a little, but did anyone run the sims for the table that was setup in the original post? I would really like to see the results. It seemed like there was a general consensus on a working BiS setup. Generally it seems that Webbed Death was the best option, and my own simulations from a few weeks ago showed as much, was just looking for some confirmation.
Levva if there are real results, could you update the original post?
Elemental Shaman: You're OOM. Enhancement Shaman: So are you.
I just simmed with the new version and here are the results:
Webbed Death (156.6/1.4): 5707 DPS
Noth Kolben (156.6/2.5): 5678 DPS
Sinnisters Rache (171.3/1.8): 5676 DPS
Die Hand Nerubs (156.6/1.6): 5680 DPS
This sim is just with my own gear and varies with gear differences of course.
Long story short:
WD is the Best OH! It doesnt really matter though which weapon you take - the differences are rather small. (within 25 dps)
Just take what you can get ahold of
PS:
I spent quite some time on configuring enhsim correctly - after using the new version with exported (SAA) data.
Some things are obvoius to correct, like weapon DPS, or Raid buffs, or OH buff.
What took me a while to figure out are the following ones:
- Make sure the enhsim.exe points to the correct file (if you have a seperate program folder for the updated version)
- Spellpower (make sure the 274 SP from flametongue are not added - enhim adds it itself by chosing the weapon imbue)
- Set bonus (not set by default or recognized by SAA)
- Rotation (Kick FS out and add ST with lowest prio) EDIT: Since 3.0.8, use MT!
- Set consumables
- Simulate Mana (add SR to the prio list or disable it)
I hope this helps maybe others who start over with new simulations.
Webbed Death (156.6/1.4): 5707 DPS
Noth Kolben (156.6/2.5): 5678 DPS
Sinnisters Rache (171.3/1.8): 5676 DPS
Die Hand Nerubs (156.6/1.6): 5680 DPS
Not a huge deal but the weapons in ascending order are Webbed Death, Angry Dread, Sinister Revenge, Hand of Nerub when translated (I'm sure we all knew by their dps/speed, but this is just to ensure no confusion).
Originally Posted by Sprinter
WD is the Best OH! It doesnt really matter though which weapon you take - the differences are rather small. (within 25 dps)
I believe for certain min/max'ers it will be a big deal. Also there was a standard config file of an accepted BiS set. To my knowledge this was the config.txt of the new EnhSim build. This would be the set to which tests should be applied in order to conclude this thread as we all know:
Originally Posted by Sprinter
This sim is just with my own gear and varies with gear differences of course.
I was unable to access your config file, could you please re-post it using the code function such that we might peruse your data set for empirical value.
Using the base config.txt found in the new EnhSim build and chardev.org, I ran sim's of the aforementioned weapons. As in the config.txt that was supplied using the BiS gear derived within this thread, the haste percent used in the simulations was taken from the spell haste field of chardev.org. I made no changes to gear, gems, or enchants for any weapon substitution -- no matter how great the value of hit or expertise over their respective caps. I am most certain that you might be able to tweak each OH to gain a bit more out of it with a few minor tweaks to gems the one that comes to mind that would see the greatest benefit would be Split Greathammer as this puts you 9pts over the expertise cap.
For each trial Fish Feast and Flask of Endless Rage were used. No Haste pots were used and the build contained UR (see config files for more info on spec). The attack priority was highest when in the following order and was used as such: MW5_LB, ES, SS, LS, ST, LL. SR. Mana simulation was turned off for these trials.
NAME Type Speed DPS
-----------------------------------------------
Webbed Death Dagger 1.4 5833.44
Angry Dread 1h Mace 2.5 5820.40
Split Greathammer 1h Mace 1.6 5815.45**
Hand of Nerub Fist 1.6 5810.54
Split Greathammer 1h Mace 1.6 5787.16
Sinister Revenge Dagger 1.8 5773.34
Anarchy Dagger 1.8 5765.11
The Stray Fist 2.6 5746.79
Murder Dagger 1.5 5742.75
Twilight Mist Dagger 1.8 5707.47
**Previously mentioned this weapon exceeds the expertise cap, as such, I added a 16AP/+8Crit for yellow meta requirement and 32AP into a free red slot in place of an expertise gem bringing the overall expertise to 26. This was done out of curiosity.
Attached are the config files for each run in order of their listing in the table.
................................................................................
MH:
miss 4497921 9.00%
dodge 0 0.00%
glancing 12461671 24.95%
hit 9081812 18.18%
crit 23913468 47.87%
MH Windfury:
procs/hits 16.63%
procs/swings 15.34%
miss 0 0.00%
dodge 0 0.00%
hit 8766894 49.19%
crit 9055612 50.81%
MH Storsmtrike:
miss 0 0.00%
dodge 0 0.00%
hit 4015224 49.36%
crit 4119104 50.64%
OH:
miss 6506907 9.01%
dodge 0 0.00%
glancing 18034488 24.97%
hit 13126078 18.18%
crit 34552373 47.84%
OH Flametongue:
miss 0 0.00%
hit 48402972 57.59%
crit 35639325 42.41%
OH Stormstrike:
miss 0 0.00%
dodge 0 0.00%
hit 4011474 49.32%
crit 4122854 50.68%
Earth Shock:
miss 0 0.00%
hit 6263220 57.58%
crit 4613920 42.42%
Lava Lash:
miss 0 0.00%
dodge 0 0.00%
hit 5010257 49.14%
crit 5184773 50.86%
Lightning Bolt:
miss 0 0.00%
hit 5927857 57.58%
crit 4367550 42.42%
Lightning Shield:
miss 0 0.00%
hit 10298003 100.00%
crit 0 0.00%
Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM 46.78
flurry uptime 87.83%
unleashed rage uptime 0.00%
elemental devastation uptime 78.57%
elemental oath uptime 0.00%
mh enchant uptime 37.04%
oh enchant uptime 29.10%
trinket1 uptime 20.85%
trinket2 uptime 32.55%
totem uptime 0.00%
set bonus uptime 0.00%
metagem uptime 0.00%
MRPS without overregen
mana regen 0.00 0.00%
mp5 34.98 37.50%
replenishment 34.21 36.69%
unrelenting storm 0.00 0.00%
judgement of wisdom 9.31 9.98%
shamanistic rage 14.77 15.83%
mana potion 0.00 0.00%
misc potion 0.00 0.00%
DPS PPM MPS
white 1796.24 31.47% 101.81
windfury 789.16 13.83% 7.43
flametongue 620.50 10.87% 70.04
stormstrike 300.64 5.27% 6.78 37.35 25.15%
lava lash 131.36 2.3% 8.50 17.07 11.50%
searing totem 343.43 6.02% 1.09 5.24 3.53%
earth shock 601.45 10.54% 9.06 37.44 25.21%
lightning bolt 831.69 14.57% 8.58 51.40 34.61%
lightning shield 292.99 5.13% 0.95 0.00 0.00%
DPS 5707.47
MPS 148.50
MP2min 17819.43
MRPS 99.07
Out of mana time 0.03%
elapsed simulation time: 20000.00h
elapsed real time: 51.74s
simulation speed: 1391653x
In conclusion as stated before this last WoW and EnhSim patch/build, Webbed Death is highest DPS with the standard BiS gear established in this thread. As always Sim everything to determine if it is right for you and your gear-set. But this is a decent guideline for OH's and provides a lot of insight into the co-variation of Stormstrike, Lava lash, Flametongue, and Lightning Shield with each other in regard to weapons speed, flurry mechanic, and stat weight/ilvl.
Please peruse and peer review these data as I am prone to typographical errors and other stupidities.
(e) I apologize, I just realized I ran them all with Draenei in the race field. Hopefully that doesn't skew the results too much. I am more that certain that the relative ranking of these OH's will remain the same though their calculated DPS difference will change slightly.
Config DL Path corrected.
The DPS is overall ~100dps less compared to the default config used in the post above, when changing:
Totem of Hex, Combat Length of 3min, Same Priority
There is no change however to the BiS Weapon - WD.
I also simmed Angry Dead with my gear right now and getting lower numbers then with my Sinister's Revenge, and I found the Webbed Death is best in slot for me.
Not only does Webbed Death sim higher but, it's also worth pointing out that WD and other fast offhands are also "easier" dps. Because they rely more on flametongue, they are simply less dependent on things like latency or having a perfect rotation in general. If during the course of a fight you miss a LL or delay a MW_LB for any reason it will impact dps more with a slow OH than with a fast OH. This is testable in Enhsim, at 0ms latency 1.4 spd WD may come out ~30-50dps ahead of the 2.5 spd Angry Dread, but at 500ms WD should come out ~50-70dps ahead of AD.
Not only does Webbed Death sim higher but, it's also worth pointing out that WD and other fast offhands are also "easier" dps. Because they rely more on flametongue, they are simply less dependent on things like latency or having a perfect rotation in general. If during the course of a fight you miss a LL or delay a MW_LB for any reason it will impact dps more with a slow OH than with a fast OH. This is testable in Enhsim, at 0ms latency 1.4 spd WD may come out ~30-50dps ahead of the 2.5 spd Angry Dread, but at 500ms WD should come out ~50-70dps ahead of AD.
So you're basically saying for people who are "challenged" at the game, Fast OH's are a better alternative? Quite the compelling argument...
So you're basically saying for people who are "challenged" at the game, Fast OH's are a better alternative? Quite the compelling argument...
While this may be true, what he's also saying if you could actually read is that if you have abnormally high latency for whatever reason, a fast offhand does not penalize you as much as a slow offhand. Also, there are certain fights where no matter how good you are it is not possible to keep up a perfect rotation - usually because you have to divert your attention to running out of the fire or something equally as 'difficult'.
While this may be true, what he's also saying if you could actually read is that if you have abnormally high latency for whatever reason, a fast offhand does not penalize you as much as a slow offhand. Also, there are certain fights where no matter how good you are it is not possible to keep up a perfect rotation - usually because you have to divert your attention to running out of the fire or something equally as 'difficult'.
Actually that point requires a lot more testing to be conclusive. I can agree about the high latency, although the effect is minimal, but if you have to move alot then the slow weapon should be better.
This is because the slow weapon will have a significantly larger proc chance per hit with maelstrom weapon. Also the weapons will be "queued" for an instant autoattack hit the moment you get back into melee range and the slow one will do more damage in "jousting" type situations. Stormstrike and Lava Lash will also hit harder so as the instants increase as a percentage of your damage due to decreased time on the target so too will the value of the slower weapon.
I've recently been testing Librarian's Paper Cutter offhand with FT/FT build, EnhSim has been simming it within 5 dps of Webbed Death based on my stats, I assume due to it's extreme speed and the nearly ideal stats on it for the build. Was curious how it held up against the BIS list for the rest of you with your own simming.
Actually that point requires a lot more testing to be conclusive. I can agree about the high latency, although the effect is minimal, but if you have to move alot then the slow weapon should be better.
This is because the slow weapon will have a significantly larger proc chance per hit with maelstrom weapon. Also the weapons will be "queued" for an instant autoattack hit the moment you get back into melee range and the slow one will do more damage in "jousting" type situations. Stormstrike and Lava Lash will also hit harder so as the instants increase as a percentage of your damage due to decreased time on the target so too will the value of the slower weapon.
This is the main reason why I keep sticking to my AD and pass on WD all of the time.
I really don't want to waste all that g on zerking for ~20 more dps on patchwerk.
Last edited by Chinny : 02/18/09 at 6:09 AM.
Reason: typo
I've recently been testing Librarian's Paper Cutter offhand with FT/FT build, EnhSim has been simming it within 5 dps of Webbed Death based on my stats, I assume due to it's extreme speed and the nearly ideal stats on it for the build. Was curious how it held up against the BIS list for the rest of you with your own simming.
Can you expand on this? What was your setup? Since you were doing FT/FT, I take it you were main handing WD with LPC in the OH?
Can you expand on this? What was your setup? Since you were doing FT/FT, I take it you were main handing WD with LPC in the OH?
I'd assume that it's as a replacement for WD in any similar situation... CG/LPC or Caster Weapon/LPC, etc. The Paper Cutter is a really good FT candidate due to it's 1.3 speed. While it may be a blue, it should sim out as a better OH than any 143 dps weapon, and give 155 dps weapons a run for their money.
Using both my current gear and the BiS gear that's been established in this thread, the Webbed Death sims higher. The Paper Cutter may be optimal for lower gearing levels, but it is not a candidate in the least at the end game, which is the original purpose of this thread. The LPC sims in at ~150-200 DPS below the Webbed Death dependant on gear.
If you run WF/FT, the top simmed damage based on this thread is from Calamity's Grasp and Webbed Death.
If you run FT/FT, the top simmed damage is the Torch of Holy Fire and Webbed Death.
I swapped the 23 haste on the cloak with 22 agi because Wraith Strike was simming for more dps with the agi enchant, while both enchants simmed for about the same with Calamity's Grasp. I'm guessing its because with the haste on Wraith Strike + haste enchant, weapon speed was dropping below 1.5 speed.
I also changed the race in EnhSim from Draenei to Tauren so it wouldn't include the 1% hit from racial, and I changed Boss miss from 9% to 8%.
With lag set to: 0-0
Wraith Strike + Webbed Death with Magma totem : 6122.82
Wraith Strike + Webbed Death with Searing totem : 5977.88
Calamity's Grasp + Webbed Death with Magma totem: 6116.76
Calamity's Grasp + Webbed Death with Searing totem: 5957.05
With lag set to: 200-500
Wraith Strike + Webbed Death with Magma Totem : 5895.90
Wraith Strike + Webbed Death with Searing Totem : 5774.99
Calamity's Grasp + Webbed Death with Magma Totem: 5900.46
Calamity's Grasp + Webbed Death with Searing Totem: 5764.68
Here's My updated Config with Calamity's Grasp+Webbed Death
Well someone had to take the plunge. A while ago, in the other thread I said I'd try to post some real world numbers, so here they are. (Yeah yeah, in yet another thread, FT/FT vs WF/FT discussion spreading everywhere, blah blah. This thread is actually about comparing weapons, so here is my real world comparison in order to show fast weapon FT/FT's crazy scaling is more than just theorycraft. If it really bothers people that much that I post this here instead of cluttering up the forum with new threads then I just won't bother anymore.)
Weapon setup: Haunting Call (50 spell power), Webbed Death (Berserking)
Here are my Patchwerk and a Thaddius kills from last week. Currently Thaddius (10317 dps) is ranked at #3 dps for shaman on WMO, and Patchwerk (5503 dps) is not too far off the leader board all things considered.
However, before writing this off as 'not being the best', look at the other factors that make me feel this is worth looking at:
- Gear. Just in case you armory me, since those fights I have picked up a Blue Aspect Helmet (~180EP gain over t7.5), T7.5 gloves (~40EP over T7), and finally swallowed my pride and took the Wrymcrest Necklace of Power (~200EP over CoD) and I'm still a few slots behind the people ahead of me on the meters. I am still wearing a few pieces 10man gear and am far from BIS for example.
Note: Those EP values are based on the numbers I was seeing at the time of the upgrade. Haste was hypervalued for quite a while. I'm at the point where it's worth 3.4EP a point. However, I'm single digits away from having the valuing nosediving to 1.4EP. I suspect this has to do with static shock eating too many stormstrike charges.
- Fight length. We were months slow in putting together a 25 man guild and only now are getting well geared. As a result, fights are longer. Many of the Patchwerk fights on the leader board are a minute faster; that's almost half the fight duration. That is a massive difference in heroism/bloodlust/pot duration. One of the Thaddius fights was 50 seconds faster.
- Comparison to other classes in the raid. While the other people on the meter aren't setting any records, I believe that after you take gear level into account they are still a good comparison to 'normal' DPS. Believe what you will, but the other people in the guild aren't bad. Many frequent EJ, and some do experimentation of their own. Before TBC/WoTLK many were competitive with the top DPS of their classes at the time. Up until right now, thanks to a really good loot week after those kills, I had average gear amongst my guild.
I also might just be talking out of my ass here, but after the Thaddius fight while I was waiting for someone to inevitably post the meter (I just use statiscl and a guildmate uploads to WWS/WMO since I noticed Recount behaving strangely in FT/FT dummy tests) I was thinking that my DPS wouldn't be high and was unhappy with my performance. Without the meter I thought I could have had a substantial improvement. Still do. Especially with the new gear.
For more evidence of FT/FT's crazy scaling you can look at the Loatheb fight too I guess. I didn't post it because my spore spawned in the healers and they didn't' get out of the way so one stole my buff. As a result, my (and some other's) buff uptime is painfully low. Edit: Oh I remember part of the reason why now. I spent most of the time on the 11 debuff side.
As a small suffix: it is worth noting that threat (for the time being anyways) tends to be somewhat of an issue at times. Since Spirit Weapons doesn't effect much of your damage with this setup, I've (rarely) run into some situations where I've had to stop DPS because I was getting uncomfortably high (105%). That being said, if you can bribe one of your paladin friends to toss you a hand of salvation in an emergency, it's more than manageable.
Well someone had to take the plunge. A while ago, in the other thread I said I'd try to post some real world numbers, so here they are. (Yeah yeah, in yet another thread, FT/FT vs WF/FT discussion spreading everywhere, blah blah. This thread is actually about comparing weapons, so here is my real world comparison in order to show fast weapon FT/FT's crazy scaling is more than just theorycraft. If it really bothers people that much that I post this here instead of cluttering up the forum with new threads then I just won't bother anymore.)
Weapon setup: Haunting Call (50 spell power), Webbed Death (Berserking)
Here are my Patchwerk and a Thaddius kills from last week. Currently Thaddius (10317 dps) is ranked at #3 dps for shaman on WMO, and Patchwerk (5503 dps) is not too far off the leader board all things considered.
However, before writing this off as 'not being the best', look at the other factors that make me feel this is worth looking at:
- Gear. Just in case you armory me, since those fights I have picked up a Blue Aspect Helmet (~180EP gain over t7.5), T7.5 gloves (~40EP over T7), and finally swallowed my pride and took the Wrymcrest Necklace of Power (~200EP over CoD) and I'm still a few slots behind the people ahead of me on the meters. I am still wearing a few pieces 10man gear and am far from BIS for example.
Note: Those EP values are based on the numbers I was seeing at the time of the upgrade. Haste was hypervalued for quite a while. I'm at the point where it's worth 3.4EP a point. However, I'm single digits away from having the valuing nosediving to 1.4EP. I suspect this has to do with static shock eating too many stormstrike charges.
- Fight length. We were months slow in putting together a 25 man guild and only now are getting well geared. As a result, fights are longer. Many of the Patchwerk fights on the leader board are a minute faster; that's almost half the fight duration. That is a massive difference in heroism/bloodlust/pot duration. One of the Thaddius fights was 50 seconds faster.
- Comparison to other classes in the raid. While the other people on the meter aren't setting any records, I believe that after you take gear level into account they are still a good comparison to 'normal' DPS. Believe what you will, but the other people in the guild aren't bad. Many frequent EJ, and some do experimentation of their own. Before TBC/WoTLK many were competitive with the top DPS of their classes at the time. Up until right now, thanks to a really good loot week after those kills, I had average gear amongst my guild.
I also might just be talking out of my ass here, but after the Thaddius fight while I was waiting for someone to inevitably post the meter (I just use statiscl and a guildmate uploads to WWS/WMO since I noticed Recount behaving strangely in FT/FT dummy tests) I was thinking that my DPS wouldn't be high and was unhappy with my performance. Without the meter I thought I could have had a substantial improvement. Still do. Especially with the new gear.
For more evidence of FT/FT's crazy scaling you can look at the Loatheb fight too I guess. I didn't post it because my spore spawned in the healers and they didn't' get out of the way so one stole my buff. As a result, my (and some other's) buff uptime is painfully low. Edit: Oh I remember part of the reason why now. I spent most of the time on the 11 debuff side.
As a small suffix: it is worth noting that threat (for the time being anyways) tends to be somewhat of an issue at times. Since Spirit Weapons doesn't effect much of your damage with this setup, I've (rarely) run into some situations where I've had to stop DPS because I was getting uncomfortably high (105%). That being said, if you can bribe one of your paladin friends to toss you a hand of salvation in an emergency, it's more than manageable.
I'm getting a "look at my dps" feel from this post. What is your point?
I'm getting a "look at my dps" feel from this post. What is your point?
Errr yeah, looking at it now does make it come off as looking that way. I think it came from a combination 5am posting, and reading the 'Finding the top Raid DPS' thread for my alt in the DK forum (A thread created to try and find out which spec/gear can do the most DPS). In my mind, WF/FT & FT/FT's gear/style is almost different enough to be called 'different specs'.
I've seen a lot of talk since the WF glyph nerf that 'FT might be better, given the right gear.' Well, talk and simming can only get you so far. Eventually you have to get that 'right' gear and move into the 'real world'. I attempted to do that, and show that FT/FT can do a disproportional amount of damage when buffed. That it scales way better than WF/FT, and that if anything min/max'ers should pick up a caster weapon for fights like Thaddius/Loatheb because the fight mechanics make FT way better.
The point was to highlight the gear setup, not my DPS. The DPS can be improved, that much should be obvious, I am not a special snowflake. My point is that if the other people on that leaderboard used FT/FT, I wouldn't even be on it.
More anecdotal evidence for FT/FT: I ran [Infection Repulser]/[Webbed Death] tonight for the last few fights in Nax. It was a sloppy night so the only clean fight I have was Saph, and I topped the meter by 600dps which is extremely unusual for my normal raid group. I would typically be 3rd-5th on fights like that. I'll post a clean WWS or WMO after next week's Patchwerk, but my initial impression confirms the crazy FT scaling that others have seen.
Well i tried Ft/Ft last night in naxx 25 and didnt even come close to that. My gear is very similar to yours and i only reached 4500 dps on Patch, a bit more cant remenber exact number, only thing I didnt have was UR or similar buff cause hunter D/c in the begining of the fight and I specced out of UR to try the same build has U. 2 weeks ago I did 4664 with WF/FT, but with some diference in gear.
Well i tried Ft/Ft last night in naxx 25 and didnt even come close to that. My gear is very similar to yours and i only reached 4500 dps on Patch, a bit more cant remenber exact number, only thing I didnt have was UR or similar buff cause hunter D/c in the begining of the fight and I specced out of UR to try the same build has U. 2 weeks ago I did 4664 with WF/FT, but with some diference in gear.
There are so many different variables that are in constant flux week to week, it's arrogant to dismiss/praise something after 1 night of testing. We have slow PW kills for our gear level and last week I hit 6400 dps on a 2:12 kill, this week similar length and barely reached 6k(no sunder qq). Fights that quick are poor judges of the actual DPS a spec can do. Actually sit down and analyze your WWS and compare crit rates, buffs, raid comp, kill time, etc; these are all gigantic factors and in fights that take 2 minutes. You can rng the hell out of LB and rock 70% crit one week and come back the next and be lucky to hit 45, likewise with the other 923011 damage sources enhancement has.
Son, to me a robot's just a garbage can with sparks comin' out it.
According to the info in this thread about dps of OH weapons Webbed Death is superior to all other weapons in both WF/FT and FT/FT setups. I want to say that in my current gear (FT/FT) it is 15 dps less, than Sinister Revenge according to the EnchSim 1.58.
Concerning weapon enchants 63 spd is a bit better, than berserk on the MH and equal to berserk on the OH according to the same version of the Sim.
Well someone had to take the plunge. A while ago, in the other thread I said I'd try to post some real world numbers, so here they are. (Yeah yeah, in yet another thread, FT/FT vs WF/FT discussion spreading everywhere, blah blah. This thread is actually about comparing weapons, so here is my real world comparison in order to show fast weapon FT/FT's crazy scaling is more than just theorycraft. If it really bothers people that much that I post this here instead of cluttering up the forum with new threads then I just won't bother anymore.)
Weapon setup: Haunting Call (50 spell power), Webbed Death (Berserking)
Here are my Patchwerk and a Thaddius kills from last week. Currently Thaddius (10317 dps) is ranked at #3 dps for shaman on WMO, and Patchwerk (5503 dps) is not too far off the leader board all things considered.
However, before writing this off as 'not being the best', look at the other factors that make me feel this is worth looking at:
- Gear. Just in case you armory me, since those fights I have picked up a Blue Aspect Helmet (~180EP gain over t7.5), T7.5 gloves (~40EP over T7), and finally swallowed my pride and took the Wrymcrest Necklace of Power (~200EP over CoD) and I'm still a few slots behind the people ahead of me on the meters. I am still wearing a few pieces 10man gear and am far from BIS for example.
Note: Those EP values are based on the numbers I was seeing at the time of the upgrade. Haste was hypervalued for quite a while. I'm at the point where it's worth 3.4EP a point. However, I'm single digits away from having the valuing nosediving to 1.4EP. I suspect this has to do with static shock eating too many stormstrike charges.
- Fight length. We were months slow in putting together a 25 man guild and only now are getting well geared. As a result, fights are longer. Many of the Patchwerk fights on the leader board are a minute faster; that's almost half the fight duration. That is a massive difference in heroism/bloodlust/pot duration. One of the Thaddius fights was 50 seconds faster.
- Comparison to other classes in the raid. While the other people on the meter aren't setting any records, I believe that after you take gear level into account they are still a good comparison to 'normal' DPS. Believe what you will, but the other people in the guild aren't bad. Many frequent EJ, and some do experimentation of their own. Before TBC/WoTLK many were competitive with the top DPS of their classes at the time. Up until right now, thanks to a really good loot week after those kills, I had average gear amongst my guild.
I also might just be talking out of my ass here, but after the Thaddius fight while I was waiting for someone to inevitably post the meter (I just use statiscl and a guildmate uploads to WWS/WMO since I noticed Recount behaving strangely in FT/FT dummy tests) I was thinking that my DPS wouldn't be high and was unhappy with my performance. Without the meter I thought I could have had a substantial improvement. Still do. Especially with the new gear.
For more evidence of FT/FT's crazy scaling you can look at the Loatheb fight too I guess. I didn't post it because my spore spawned in the healers and they didn't' get out of the way so one stole my buff. As a result, my (and some other's) buff uptime is painfully low. Edit: Oh I remember part of the reason why now. I spent most of the time on the 11 debuff side.
As a small suffix: it is worth noting that threat (for the time being anyways) tends to be somewhat of an issue at times. Since Spirit Weapons doesn't effect much of your damage with this setup, I've (rarely) run into some situations where I've had to stop DPS because I was getting uncomfortably high (105%). That being said, if you can bribe one of your paladin friends to toss you a hand of salvation in an emergency, it's more than manageable.
I too decided to take a stab at this. I upgraded my pants from Herois to Valorous yesterday but otherwise my gear is the same as our 25 man naxx clear yesterday. I had 6100 DPS on Patchwerk, and 11300 DPS on Thaddius. This is with Cudgel of Saronite Justice in the mainhand, which simmed as better with 63 SP than Berserking.