This is a short-sighted view. Yes you are correct that at current end-game gear levels, the two setups are roughly equal. However it is already clear that FT/FT scales better, and thus pushing into Ulduar and beyond it will begin to pull ahead, eventually supplanting WF completely if none of the mechanics are changed.
Furthermore, Zayrinoke's setup seems to indicate that FT/FT caps out significantly (500+dps) higher than WF/FT even at current gear levels. The difficulty just lies in getting the items. Note that this is a big enough gap to go far beyond the WF glyph change.
But Blizzard is unlikely to do anything about it in the short term until someone actually goes through the trouble of getting all these BiS caster items over all of the actual casters who want them and posts a 7.3k DPS patchwerk run using this setup. So people are going to start bidding for these items. Then once they nerf it, all of these BiS caster items get to sit in the bank.
This end result is bad for everyone involved, which is why people don't like the current situation.
Hopefully 3.1 patch notes will come out soon and we can stop conjecturing and start really worrying.
To give an impression of how decent enhance gear with just the Cudgel does, my current gear and talent setup sims as 6354.70 DPS in EnhSim with 150-200 MS on a 3 min fight.
Over 170 dps from putting thunder capacitor on in the sim from that setup, otherwise I get the same dps or slightly lower than my current wraith strike with berserking on it. Frustrating that so much hinges on that trinket.
Speaking as someone that only passingly reads this thread, what particular items would you suggest I get in order to test this caster gear FT/FT setup (and spec)? Mostly just the OH, as I have most of the rest of the gear.
Were any horde shamans clairvoyant enough to ever win AND keep a [Blazefury Medallion] ?
From the comments, it says that it adds 2 fire damage to all of your attacks (and that it scales with spell power at a 50% rate). I imagine it would actually become the single biggest upgrade item wise if that's true.
I've just done some simming of my own, webbed death as OH, cudgel and blade of dormant memories are a downgrade from wraith strike as mainhand (wraith strike with wf imbue, fast mainhands with FT). Calamity's grasp is a sidegrade to wraith strike, only real upgrade I can find is Torch of Holy Fire.
These results are without thunder capacitor. With it, they all own calamity's and wraith strike. Much to my frustration, as I didn't keep the item when levelling.
However, this does show that a significant proportion of results from these caster weapons outdps'ing windfury can be controlled by removing thunder capacitor's proc from flametongue by blizzard. Tbh, I hope they will, but it's not enough, just insert the flametongue shared cd across ranks, nerf capacitor, and I'm happy.
So with all the fancy simming values of FT/FT around, isn't anybody worried? Wasn't the reason why Lavaburst was removed form MW the fact that it scaled too well with ele gear, thus making caster gear the optimal setup for enhancement, the designated melee spec of a shaman? I'm quite sure that it won't be too long until the FT/FT way of enhancement gets popular, and i wonder if blizzard will be very fond of the fact that elemental oriented gear is once again top notch for enhancement. Either way, i believe that FT/FT is not the way enhancement is meant to be played in endgame, which is why it will be pushed down below WF/FT
My different tests in EnhSim are showing Haste to have a point where it starts to dramatically lose value, this point seems to be at around 10% haste from gear.
I've just done some simming of my own, webbed death as OH, cudgel and blade of dormant memories are a downgrade from wraith strike as mainhand (wraith strike with wf imbue, fast mainhands with FT). Calamity's grasp is a sidegrade to wraith strike, only real upgrade I can find is Torch of Holy Fire.
These results are without thunder capacitor. With it, they all own calamity's and wraith strike. Much to my frustration, as I didn't keep the item when levelling.
However, this does show that a significant proportion of results from these caster weapons outdps'ing windfury can be controlled by removing thunder capacitor's proc from flametongue by blizzard. Tbh, I hope they will, but it's not enough, just insert the flametongue shared cd across ranks, nerf capacitor, and I'm happy.
Want to add, you can open a ticket to get the TC returned to you. I opened a ticket to get it back when it wasn't even the item I chose as a reward when I did the quest, and they gave it to me.
Were any horde shamans clairvoyant enough to ever win AND keep a [Blazefury Medallion] ?
From the comments, it says that it adds 2 fire damage to all of your attacks (and that it scales with spell power at a 50% rate). I imagine it would actually become the single biggest upgrade item wise if that's true.
Anyone still has that and could test it ?
Just tested with [Storm Gauntlets]. Similar effect only diffenrent value and magic school. I was very disapointed when I dind't see any spell power scaling.
And with regards to GC posting in the "wrong thread", I meant he posted in some thread that "fished for blue", instead of the now 38 page constructive thread on the WF glyph changes.
@Volti: damn straight we're worried, it's a sucky way to have to gear. However, these forums are dedicated to spewing out every little tidbit of dps you can get a hold of, so until it's fixed or changed in some way, you can be sure that people will do their best to exploit it.
@Zay: Hmm, I know that when I've tried to get an old questitem in the past, they said to me that it had to be a week since I chose the wrong item from the quest or less. Do you recall what you wrote to them?
Just tested with [Storm Gauntlets]. Similar effect only diffenrent value and magic school. I was very disapointed when I dind't see any spell power scaling.
Were any horde shamans clairvoyant enough to ever win AND keep a [Blazefury Medallion] ?
From the comments, it says that it adds 2 fire damage to all of your attacks (and that it scales with spell power at a 50% rate). I imagine it would actually become the single biggest upgrade item wise if that's true.
Anyone still has that and could test it ?
Items like that haven't worked with spellpower since the TF days when rogues would forgo their other stats in favor of spell damage(kind of ironic, no?). Oh the days of broken gates and taunt bugged drakes. The trash axe from AQ is another one that I can think of; it was amazingly fun running around in Avenger's lifestealing people for a third of my hp. Nostalgia aside, any time something cropped up as scaling with spellpower it's been subsequently nerfed. I suppose in the four thousand fixes they did for that necklace(breaking sap/gouge/god knows what else, been too long) they could have messed up scaling, but that neck was horrible when it was released. I think that I'd be more amazed if someone actually kept something that terrible around for so long than I would be if it actually scaled.
Son, to me a robot's just a garbage can with sparks comin' out it.
@Zay: Hmm, I know that when I've tried to get an old questitem in the past, they said to me that it had to be a week since I chose the wrong item from the quest or less. Do you recall what you wrote to them?
GM policies change all the time. It's my understanding that presently, there's no time limit that will prevent them from being able to restore the trinket.
Make sure that you don't have any of the other quest rewards from that quest first, and open a ticket requesting the restoration of the capacitor. Make sure you name the quest and the trinket specifically, or else your GM may assume you're hoping to have a deleted item restored. They probably won't be able to verify you deleted the trinket any more, but they will be able to confirm you completed the quest. As long as you 1. haven't asked the GM department for a million things in the past and 2. Don't have any other rewards from that quest in your bank, they should be able to get it back.
@Volti: damn straight we're worried, it's a sucky way to have to gear. However, these forums are dedicated to spewing out every little tidbit of dps you can get a hold of, so until it's fixed or changed in some way, you can be sure that people will do their best to exploit it.
@Zay: Hmm, I know that when I've tried to get an old questitem in the past, they said to me that it had to be a week since I chose the wrong item from the quest or less. Do you recall what you wrote to them?
It was a really simple message, I just said "I accidentally vendored the trinket Thunder Capacitor from the quest "Something that Doesnt Melt" (I think is the name, I looked it up then), is there any way I could have this item restored?"
GM policies change all the time. It's my understanding that presently, there's no time limit that will prevent them from being able to restore the trinket.
Make sure that you don't have any of the other quest rewards from that quest first, and open a ticket requesting the restoration of the capacitor. Make sure you name the quest and the trinket specifically, or else your GM may assume you're hoping to have a deleted item restored. They probably won't be able to verify you deleted the trinket any more, but they will be able to confirm you completed the quest. As long as you 1. haven't asked the GM department for a million things in the past and 2. Don't have any other rewards from that quest in your bank, they should be able to get it back.
I succeeded in getting the item back, he asked if I had chosen that item in the past, and I answered "I think I did". Apparently, that's not a problem, for everyone's info.
I had chosen the automated weapon coater and vendored it like 10 ins before I opened the ticket, just so you know what you can get away with >>
I did the same thing; vendored the weapon coater seconds before opening the ticket and had no issues getting the TC. Was in my mail the next day. Just so you know it wasn't a fluke for Zay. =)
Here is a mini Enhancement enchant update. I know you guys have been itching for this for awhile. It just took the designers some time to sit down and discuss the issue, and then I had to catch up with the discussion after being out.
1) The extra AP for the Windfury Weapon Glyph is not intentional and I believe has been hotfixed.
2) Our goal is WF / FT on main hand / offhand.
3) Our goal is Enhancement generally favors slow weapons for main hand / offhand.
4) To satisfy 2 & 3, we are normalizing flametongue's damage to weapon speed. If you use a fast weapon now for FT, your damage will come down. If you use a slow weapon, your damage will come up. Please keep that in mind as you continue to gear up preparing for patch 3.1.
5) Our intention with these changes is not to nerf Enhancement damage overall. However, we are concerned that Enhancement PvE damage is quite high (compared to where other classes are in the 3.1 space) so it's possible that we will end up lowering your damage slightly. But the changes outlined above are not intended to do that.
6) Overall, we are really happy with the basic attack rotation of Enhancement. Shamans are pushing the buttons we want them to push and generally doing what we expect. PvP utility is still something we are looking at however.
02/22/09, 1:49 AM
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