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Old 01/30/09, 5:19 PM   #16
aureon
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Black Dragonflight
I just made a spreadsheet that is incredibly easy to use, and giving you the information you need to excel in a raid environment. My spreadsheet is currently a work in progress, there is currently no implementation of Nature's Blessing, so if you add int to check for upgrades, be aware that you will need to manually adjust the spellpower; this seemed the lesser of 2 evils, since for the easiest use the end user would rather just copy their stats out of the character pane.

Here's the link to the google code page: Google Code
Here's the link to the Gameriot download page: Gameriot; this one is going to be updated more often.

Feature's I'm currently looking at:
1. Engineer a solution for theoretical +int to translate into extra spellpower; along with that an entire raid buff menu that's simple to use.
2. Simple healing rotations such as Chain heal -> LHW -> LHW, and showing the HPS and MPS from that.

Last edited by aureon : 01/30/09 at 5:59 PM.

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Old 02/06/09, 6:06 PM   #17
Handyhoof
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Paladin
 
Lightbringer
I have created a healing Shaman spreadsheet. It is currently very powerful, taking into account all talents, buffs, glyphs, and meta gems. It is however still in Beta and needs feedback and testing.

Resto.ods - FileFront.com

There are macros that have functionality only in OpenOffice, but they only control the buttons in the talent calculator and the HEP calculator. The talents can be entered by hand, and I haven't figured out an elegant way to do the HEP calcs without a macro yet.

Last edited by Handyhoof : 02/10/09 at 10:18 AM.

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Old 02/11/09, 3:04 AM   #18
Jerem
Von Kaiser
 
Jerem's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Les Sentinelles (EU)
I am currently having a look at your sheet Handy (thanks for the time you invested, by the way).
If it is not too much trouble for you, I suggest you upload a .xls version of it as well.

As it is now, I had to download the file, open it in Google Docs, and save it as .xls, to finally open it in Excel.
From what I've seen in the Hunter Spreadsheet thread(s) over the past year, you can expect multiple questions about that, I'm afraid

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Old 02/11/09, 8:50 AM   #19
Handyhoof
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Paladin
 
Lightbringer
I saved my current file in Excel format. I'm fairly certain it broke at least the HEP calculator macro. All the base fuctionality should still be there, though. I'm not going to go out of my way to support an Excel version, but when I update the file I'll make sure to convert it and post it.

Edit:
I would also recommend against loading it into Google Spreadsheets. I tested that as a hosting service, but it does not have a level of fidelity with which I'm comfortable.

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Old 02/25/09, 4:15 PM   #20
Brohuld
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Drek'Thar (EU)
I have worked some time on another Excel model for Restoration Shamans out there. Hope somebody can find it useful. Appreciate any comments of course- have tried to debug as much as I could but you nerver know.

Restoration Shaman Simulation

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Old 02/26/09, 2:55 PM   #21
Daidalos
Great Tiger
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Korgath
I've updated my sheet a bit. I've added in HPS HEP calculations for lhw, hw, and ch. I left out riptide due to the hot nature of it and it being a small part of our healing but if people really want to see it I can include HEP for it as well.

I am debating adding in HEP for regen but it really boils down to crit and replenishment and mp5 as our only regen so its going to vary on your raid make up and rotations a lot. Do people want this or is this more of a based on my experience kinda thing?

Also I added in the glyph for earth shield assuming it a 1.2 multiplier after all other calculations are applied.

Last edited by Daidalos : 03/01/09 at 1:26 PM.


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Old 03/01/09, 11:00 AM   #22
Skyhoof
Don Flamenco
 
Skyhoof's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Cenarius
Daidalos:

This is a great addition to an already extremely useful spreadsheet! And it confirms mathematically what many of us have suspected: Haste is more valuable than crit. Keep in mind the HEP doesn't take into account the hard-to-quantify benefits of criting such as Improved Water Shield and Ancestral Fortitude. This makes crit more valuable than it looks on paper but probably never as good as haste.

Some observations
  • HPS is about the same for HW and LHW using this model (and we know that HW overheals more often in reality)
  • Chain Heal has the highest HPS (as long as you hit multiple targets)
  • Regardless of how much spellpower you have, Haste is worth about 2.95 times as much as Crit using Chain Heal
  • Regardless of how much spellpower you have, Haste is worth about 1.7 times as much as Crit using HW and LHW
  • At 2500 spellpower with 400 haste and 24% crit (38% on heals), you would get the following HEP values
    • CH: 10 spellpower = 9 haste = 3 crit
    • HW/LHW: 10 spellpower = 12 Haste = 7 Crit

Does Haste really benefit LHW as much as the spreadsheet shows? Tidal Waves lowers the cast time of LHW by 30%, which results in a cast time of 1.05 before we take into account haste from your gear. So in reality, the benefit that haste provides to LHW is capped at about 100 haste from gear if you take Tidal Waves into account. This might be quite difficult to show on the spreadsheet but it's worth keeping in mind when trying to establish some HEP values. Also, it would seem that Haste is actually MORE valuable for Chain Heal since there is no other way to decrease CH cast time while you can use Tidal Waves to cast HW and LHW more quickly.

We should try to establish some HEP values using this spreadsheet as a baseline and adjusting the values as necessary for other game mechanics.

The chart below is based on having 400 haste and 24% crit (38% on heals) with only the amount of spellpower changing
hep1.jpg

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Old 03/01/09, 2:12 PM   #23
Daidalos
Great Tiger
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by Skyhoof View Post
Daidalos:

This is a great addition to an already extremely useful spreadsheet! And it confirms mathematically what many of us have suspected: Haste is more valuable than crit. Keep in mind the HEP doesn't take into account the hard-to-quantify benefits of criting such as Improved Water Shield and Ancestral Fortitude. This makes crit more valuable than it looks on paper but probably never as good as haste.

Some observations
  • HPS is about the same for HW and LHW using this model (and we know that HW overheals more often in reality)
  • Chain Heal has the highest HPS (as long as you hit multiple targets)
  • Regardless of how much spellpower you have, Haste is worth about 2.95 times as much as Crit using Chain Heal
  • Regardless of how much spellpower you have, Haste is worth about 1.7 times as much as Crit using HW and LHW
  • At 2500 spellpower with 400 haste and 24% crit (38% on heals), you would get the following HEP values
    • CH: 10 spellpower = 9 haste = 3 crit
    • HW/LHW: 10 spellpower = 12 Haste = 7 Crit

Does Haste really benefit LHW as much as the spreadsheet shows? Tidal Waves lowers the cast time of LHW by 30%, which results in a cast time of 1.05 before we take into account haste from your gear. So in reality, the benefit that haste provides to LHW is capped at about 100 haste from gear if you take Tidal Waves into account. This might be quite difficult to show on the spreadsheet but it's worth keeping in mind when trying to establish some HEP values. Also, it would seem that Haste is actually MORE valuable for Chain Heal since there is no other way to decrease CH cast time while you can use Tidal Waves to cast HW and LHW more quickly.

We should try to establish some HEP values using this spreadsheet as a baseline and adjusting the values as necessary for other game mechanics.

The chart below is based on having 400 haste and 24% crit (38% on heals) with only the amount of spellpower changing
Attachment 4551
This is why I might add crit regen. I could make MP5 Equiv Points / MEPs (makes me of Beaker from the muppets for some reason) or some such. In my sheet I do not calculate LHW using TW cast time at all. So basically I count LHW as gcd time. Haste lowers the gcd so LHW scales nicely with haste. The fact that the actual time to heal is lower than the gcd doesn't really affect any math here (although its a great benefit for landing a heal before someone dies.)

As for the numbers you listed HEP means healingpower equiv points. So if haste has an HEP of 1.2 then 1 haste equals 1.2 healing. To convert this 1.2 healing to crit you div by the crit HEP then mul by the amount of haste you are converting from. I added a little conversion between crit and haste so you won't have to actually do this.

When I look at the numbers for the stats you list I get
CH: haste HEP = 0.91, crit HEP = .31
so we can see healing is the best followed closely by haste then distantly crit
10 haste rating= 9.08 healing = 29.70 crit rating

here we see haste is the most valuable followed by healing and not too far back crit,
HW/LHW: haste HEP = 1.20, crit HEP = .68
10 haste = 11.96 healing = 17.28 crit rating

I think this makes crit a good stat for hw/lhw considering the increased mana back as its decent hps gains but this is really only good for single target healing.

Last edited by Daidalos : 03/01/09 at 2:45 PM.


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Old 03/02/09, 6:35 PM   #24
Daidalos
Great Tiger
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Korgath
I added INT HEP and haste crit and int MEP calcs. Feel free to dissect, find errors, or give feedback


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Old 03/03/09, 10:09 AM   #25
Slurpeedelic
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Daggerspine (EU)
Can anyone please give me the formula for Chain heal HPS? I've been looking through the forum, but cant find it.
would really appriciate it. thanks

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Old 03/03/09, 10:26 AM   #26
Nagisamuro
Piston Honda
 
Nagisamuro's Avatar
 
Orc Hunter
 
Cho'gall
Originally Posted by Slurpeedelic View Post
Can anyone please give me the formula for Chain heal HPS? I've been looking through the forum, but cant find it.
would really appriciate it. thanks
Shaman: Restoration

Healing Done = [Base + ((cast time / 3.5) * 1.88 + TidalWaves) * spell power + relic] * Talent multipliers * GlyphBonus *OtherBonus
Using the above formula, you can ignore TidalWaves as it only applies to HW/LHW, and GlyphBonus as there is no such glyph for chain heal.

For each jump of the chain, divide the whole thing in half.

Finally, divide by cast time to get HPS.

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Old 03/03/09, 10:48 AM   #27
Daidalos
Great Tiger
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by Nagisamuro View Post
Healing Done = [Base + ((cast time / 3.5) * 1.88 + TidalWaves) * spell power + relic] * Talent multipliers * GlyphBonus *OtherBonus
You need () around spell power + relic

Healing Done = [Base + ((cast time / 3.5) * 1.88 + TidalWaves) * (spell power + relic)] * Talent multipliers * GlyphBonus *OtherBonus

Also you can always look at spreadsheets to find forumalas and coef for things if you don't see exactly what you need in a post.

Last edited by Daidalos : 03/03/09 at 11:00 AM.


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Old 03/03/09, 12:28 PM   #28
Handyhoof
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Paladin
 
Lightbringer
It's not pretty or trivial, but here's what I use for CH HPS

((1-Crit+Crit*(1.5+0.03*If(RevitalizingMeta)))*((1130+((CHRelicBonus+Healing)*(1.88*2.5/3.5)))*(1+0.02*PurificationRanks)*(1+0.1*ImpCHRanks)*(1+IF(T7>=4;0.05;0))*(1+IF(T6>=4 ;0.05;0)))*(2-1/(2^CHJumps))*(1-CHOverheal)+(0.2+0.05*If(ELWGlyph))*(1-ELWOverheal)*(652+Healing*1.88*4/11)*(1+0.02*PurificationRanks)*CHJumps)/(2.5/(1+Haste))

If you want to simplify it, you can remove the ELW part and/or set overhealing to 0.

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Old 03/03/09, 3:56 PM   #29
Vuldunobetra
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Cenarius
Riptide -> CH bonus

Based on Daidalos's spreadsheet, with 25% crit and 2500 sp, I calculated what the net bonus to Chain Heal is. This includes the amount of the HoT consumed. To maximize it, you need to land the CH 12-15s after casting the RT, so that only the last tick is consumed. And if you follow up the RT with a CH on the same target, it is a net loss in healing.

4 target Chain Heal = 13.933 total
25% Bonus to CH = 3,483
Each Riptide HoT = 884

Ticks left - Net Heal - Net Bonus to CH
1 2,599 18.7%
2 1,715 12.3%
3 831 6.0%
4 -53 -0.4%
5 -937 -6.7%

It might be beneficial to have Grid display Riptide ticks so we can time the CH better. Anyone have any ideas?

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Old 03/03/09, 4:07 PM   #30
Nagisamuro
Piston Honda
 
Nagisamuro's Avatar
 
Orc Hunter
 
Cho'gall
Originally Posted by Vuldunobetra View Post
It might be beneficial to have Grid display Riptide ticks so we can time the CH better. Anyone have any ideas?
To borrow a technique I first saw in the hunter's forum, you can add:
/qt Riptide 12
to a riptide macro if you use Quartz. This will put up a small timer bar counting down from 12 every time you cast riptide. You can adjust the number if you want to use some other duration.

edit:
I added this to my riptide mouseover macro the other day. It does the job well enough, I guess. I have it set to 12 seconds to account for the chain heal cast time, so as long as I start casting before the timer completely drains to 0 it should land while riptide is still on the target.

Cons: You can only have one timer bar (of the same name) up at a time, so if you recast riptide in those twelve seconds you'll get a new timer overwriting the old one. Also, you have to remember who you cast it on - there's no indication of that on the timer itself. Configuring Grid to show a colored dot on units with the riptide HoT should cure that, though. (I didn't think it would be hard to remember who I cast it on <15seconds ago, but after a few 40 man WG battles, I proved myself wrong on that one.)

Last edited by Nagisamuro : 03/05/09 at 10:24 AM.

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