stassart

shaman_hep2.0 is up on Curse atm:

2.0:
Added more buffs to the buff report.
Added a totem report for the combat uptime of your totems.
Added a talent report that shows stats for all your talents.
The Focused Mind talent report includes a silence report.
Nature's Swiftness includes a report on what was cast using it
(including if any cast proced Ancestral Awakening).
Added a glyph report that shows stats for your glyphs.
Split the configuration off into a separate configuration file.
Shows actual over healing for hots.
Shows the effect of healing way.
Shows average cast times for spells.
Shows uptime of spell power and haste trinkets.
Shows for each chain heal hop how many were boosted by riptide.
Tracks haste capped cast

Known bug, the HEP value assigned to Darkmoon Card: Greatness is wrong and way low. This is fixed in 2.01 which has been uploaded to Curse and is awaiting approval.

shaman_hep Healing Equivalency Point combatlog parser

 

lrdx

Daidalos, could you please add a Pawn import string to your spreadsheet? In the current sheet, for Stats1 it should be: (For Stats2 obviously change the cells.)

 

Daidalos

Ok I added that for stats 1 and 2 but since I don't use pawn let me know if I need to fix anything

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

stassart

shaman_hep 2.13 uploaded to Curse. For some reason it is listed as the most recent version and if you click download, that is the version you get, but in the listed files below it still shows 2.05 as the latest. So if you want the latest version, make sure you grab shaman_hep213.zip.

2.13:
Added Ulduar spells Gravity Bomb, Light Bomb, and Rune Detonation to ignored mana cost table so that they do not generate unknown spell warnings.
Now assigning a HEP value for Glyph of Earthliving Weapon.
Added increased Earthliving proc effect to Blessing of Eternals (and removed note saying that it was not considered).
Added ASSUME_ANY_MANA_SPRING, ASSUME_RESTORATIVE_TOTEMS, and MANA_SPRING_BOW_STACK to config file for better Mana Spring Totem 3.1 support.
Added mana to Pawn string.
BUGFIX: Fixed typo that was causing Mana Tide Totem to still use mana in 3.1.
BUGFIX: Fixed Earth Shield uptime report.
BUGFIX: Fixed some possible uninitialized variables. This may have caused run time errors for people with Totemic Focus.
BUGFIX: Reported time spent healing did not include chain heal (Oops, I even had a comment that chain heal would be handled separately, but I had forgotten to implement that code).
BUGFIX: Fixed mana spring totem uptime for 3.1.
BUGFIX: Fixed case of the p in Mp5 for Pawn string.

As a note to Daidalos on the last bugfix to shaman_hep, Pawn seems to accept Mp5, and not MP5 in its import string. It looks like your spreadsheet also uses MP5 like the post in this thread suggested.

shaman_hep Healing Equivalency Point combatlog parser

 

Daidalos

OK thanks for the pawn fix. I keep expecting them to fix the mana spring and BoW stacking but I'm finding the mana useful for now.

In addition i'm adding in HEP/MEP weights for riptide, earth shield, and healing stream totems. I found that not using the exact same healing break down as I get in game was really weighting haste and crit a little too much. I still can't decide if riptide "benefits" from haste or not since it depends on how you use it. On the one hand it does nothing to make the hot tick faster or reduce the cooldown, but on the other it does decrease cast time allow you cast other spells after it faster.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

• Nagisamuro

GC today confirmed the bug and their intent to fix it. World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> So can we get an answer? BoW+ManaT intented?

 

stassart

Daidalos, found another item in your spreadsheet that reflects what the tooltip says, but not how the game actually behaves.

Water Shield rank 9 tooltip says 400 for orbs, but you actually get 428 for orbs (with no talents or set bonuses).

If you check combatlogs for enhancement and elemental shaman without Improved Shields you will find they get 428.

A resto shaman with 3 points in Improved Shields gets:

428 * (1 + (3 * 0.05)) = 492.2 (combatlog will show 492)

If you have Improved Shields and 2 pieces of Tier 7 you get:

428 * (1 + (3 * 0.05) + 0.1) = 535 (combatlog will show 535)

I need to fix how shaman hep credits Improved Shields (I credit it with (535) - ((535) / 1.15) = 69.8 (23.2 per talent point)), but that is only correct if you do not have 2 pieces of Tier 7 (492 - 492/1.15 = 64.2 (21.4 per talent point)). It should credit it with 5% of the base (428) per talent point = 21.4.

Edit: My bad using wowhead tooltip, the tooltips in game are correct.

shaman_hep Healing Equivalency Point combatlog parser

 

Handyhoof

You get max rank Water Shield at level 76, and it scales up to 428 for a level 80 environment. Someone a while back saw this discrepancy and did that math as if it were a healing spell being scaled, and 428 was the number they derived. In actuality, it's not a bug in the tooltip or the combat log, because of the scaling.

 

stassart

Daidalos, the cast time of your RT / LHW / LHW rotation does not look like it includes tidal waves. You may want to add a LHW 9 (w AA, tidal waves) row to give a more accurate comparison of LHW vs. HW.

Your RT / HW / HW / RT / HW / HW cast time is too low. You assume that you will be able to cast the second RT after 4.24 seconds, but even with Tier 8 2-piece, it is not available until the 5 second mark. The rotation is actually limited by the RT cooldown, the cast time of rotation is actually 10 seconds with Tier 8 2-piece (if you have at least 6.9% haste, and in a raid with wrath of air and improved moonkin/swift retribution you have 8.15% just from raid buffs) or 12 seconds with Tier 8 4-piece (no haste needed).

It is worth noting that if you switch to the RT / HW / HW / RT / HW / HW rotation with Tier 8 2-piece from the RT / HW / HW / CH / HW HW rotation some shaman currently use now, haste becomes a worthless stat for the double riptide rotation when you have improved moonkin/swift retribution and wrath of air totem.

Another bug I noticed is that Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution do not seem to be used anywhere, so cast times are lower than your spreadsheet has.

You are correct, the tooltips in game are correct.

Very interesting, you wouldn't happen to know where you saw that? I would be very interested in the math used for that calculation.

Edit: I went through the old threads and could not find it, but if you hunt for it I checked these threads pretty carefully:

Resto Water Shield Data and Calculations
Restoration WotLK Talents and Discussion

Anyone have any ideas on the best way to assign a value to the new Tier 8 2-piece set bonus?

While it is nice to have riptide on a shorter cooldown, if you are using it as a tool when people get low if available or while moving, this set bonus is not really raising your hps any.

It can be used to switch from a RT / HW / HW / CH / HW / HW rotation to RT / HW / HW / RT / HW / HW rotation when tank healing, so I guess the difference between those two rotations could be used for a HEP difference? But that does not really work because you do not know how the CH would have bounced, even when tank healing CH can bounce to the melee depending on positioning.

Any better ideas?

shaman_hep Healing Equivalency Point combatlog parser

 

Grektar

I am pretty new to resto shaman and I was wondering what priority I should be looking for in stats. I am currently in a guild that is raiding 25-man Ulduar, and have been gearing/gemming for haste and Mp5 because most of the time I am spamming CH. I also use the haste elixir, and coupled with WoA my CH becomes a 1.9 second cast. I don't really have mana issues on fights so stacking haste isn't too much of a problem with the use of mana-tide and runic mana pots. I just wanted to know if I should keep stacking haste, or should I start to gem for raw sp and int? My armory link is The World of Warcraft Armory

 

Jessamy

This approach wouldn't work for a spreadsheet, but for a parser, could the time between Riptide casts be tracked? If so, perhaps the program could draw a conclusion about how many more times the spell was cast than would have been possible without the bonus. This would provide a simulation on paper of the in game effect of a fight where we are forced to move around a lot.

 

Jessamy

To get you started, you could try using the resto shaman module for rawr. However, the best way to decide what stats will improve your healing is to run the shaman_hep perl script on a combatlog of your personal in game healing, and then plug those stats into lootrank.com or a wowhead filter. You can find shaman_hep here:

shaman_hep - Addons - Curse

For proof that different shaman healers find much different values for stats, a couple of walkthroughs for installing and using the tool, and some sample numbers for you to consider before you have your own numbers, you can check the thread where some of us have posted output reports from the parser here:

[Resto] shaman_hep reports

 

stassart

It would be very easy for shaman_hep to tell you how many riptides were cast using the T8 set bonus before they would have been able to be cast otherwise. However, that just means it was cast earlier than it would have been, not that it was necessarily cast more. It will probably be a useful statistic to display, but I do not see how a value can be reached by this statistic.

shaman_hep Healing Equivalency Point combatlog parser

 

Daidalos

Why would I include tidal waves cast time in a LHW rotation when tidal waves doesn't reduce the gcd?

You are right about the RT HW HW RT HW HW rotation. I personally don't use RT HW HW CH HW HW but I'll think about adding this and maybe RT HW HW HW RT HW HW HW rotation or something. I use alot of my gaps between RT HW HW and the next RT to move ot refresh WS/ ES etc but it depends on the fight obviously.

Looks like I totally forgot about moonkin aura I'll fix that as well.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

stassart

The comment in shaman_hep226 (which is what I assume you downloaded):

I value feedback, but do you have any suggestions for making that clearer?

shaman_hep Healing Equivalency Point combatlog parser

 

TeKniciaN

Not to derail the current discussion, but I wanted to request a citation to a test that Tidal Waves does not affect the GCD, anecdotal evidence from my in game use seems to indicate that a Tidal Waved LHW GCD is 1.0 seconds under TW, but its 1.3-1.4 with my haste from gear (without the TW buff).

Also if no one has actually definitively tested it is there any kind of script I could run to determine the exact length of the GCD when I cats LHW under TW?

 

stassart

The actual cast rate may feel faster due to latency, but you can confirm with a combatlog that the actual healing output does not go up with lesser healing wave tidal wave spam.

A brief test I did after 3.1 was released to verify that TW does not lower the gcd on lhw:

http://www.stassart.org/shaman/WoWCo...-lhw-tidal.txt
http://www.stassart.org/shaman/WoWCo...hw-notidal.txt

The gap between lhw casts is on average the same with and without tidal waves according to the combatlog and the closest I could get two lhw together was 1.2 sec.

shaman_hep Healing Equivalency Point combatlog parser

 

Daidalos

You can easily test this for your self. Cast RT then LHW LHW. If you spam your LHW button you will see a "not yet recovered" when the cast fails between the first and second LHW. This is due to the fact that the first LHW has finished but you are still under the GCD and cannot cast the second LHW (you will see the same message if you try to cast after the RT before the gcd is up). In the future if you feel the well known facts are in question its up to the person wishing to challenge them to disprove since others have already done the work to prove this in the beginning.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

TeKniciaN

Thanks, I did exactly that and that's why I said according to anecdotal evidence in game it appeared to that TW reduced my GCD to 1.0 seconds, since the lockout seemed to be very short, I attributed it as the difference between my cats time (0.8-0.9 secs) and the GCD cap (1.0 secs). However as stassart showed with the log he supplied this was just due to lag or my inability to differentiate the 0.2-0.3 seconds through mere observation. I attempted to find the evidence or reference proving TW did not affect the GCD because of my observation and was unable to do so, which led me to post. Thanks stassart for doing what I was unable to.

 

Daidalos

If you had done the test with 0 haste on and no haste buffs you would see that LHW with tidal waves drops to about 1s but you still get the same message until the 1.5s is up.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Sprout

I checked this thread, the HEP thread and the gear thread and I dont see an answer on this.

Is the T8 4 piece set bonus applied before haste or afterwards. (3.0* haste% from gear + 5% haste from totem)-0.2s or (3.0.-0.2)* (haste% from gear + 10% haste from totem). I got my 4 piece bonus this weekend and could check if someone could let me know if the math above looks right, but Im not 100% sure I am not missing something.

 

Handyhoof

I've been working on the assumption that it reduces the base cast time of the spell before Haste. The second of your examples looks the most correct. If you have the gear and could spend a few minutes to nail it down for us, it would be the first real data we have (as far as I know.) Up to this point, I believe we've been working off conjecture.

 

Harrylee

seems like T8 4pc bonus is reducing the base casttime of chainheal only.

 

stassart

I am not sure where you are getting 2.0 from or a 10% haste totem (Wrath of Air is 5%).

I have the 4-piece T8 bonus and the equation I use in shaman_hep for the T8 4-piece bonus is:

((chain heal base) - (T8 set bonus))/ (1 + (current haste percent))

For example:

((2.5) - (0.2)) / (1 + 0.1369) = 2.02 which matches the in game tooltip

Also remember that most haste effects are multiplicative. With wrath of air down example:

((2.5) - (0.2)) / ((1.1369) * (1.05)) = 1.93 which also matches the in game tooltip

Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution, bloodlust, a haste trinket proc if you use one, etc. can all reduce it further.

shaman_hep Healing Equivalency Point combatlog parser

 

Gbits

So can someone suggest a formula to calculate the approximate value of the T8/8.5 4pc bonus if you don't actually have the pieces yet for accurate shaman_hep calculations? I'm trying to determine, after running hep (absolutely fabulous script, thanks so much Stass!), whether I'm best off going for straight BiS for my hep values or whether I should be aiming for the 4pc. I confess I use RT steadily but not constantly, so the 2 pc bonus will probably happen by accident but I won't be gunning for it. Been juggling the T7.54pc for the moment.

I can't tell you what my hasted CH is at the moment (sorry), but I have around 520 rating.

If it helps.. armory link (which may or may not show me in enhance gear for questing):
The World of Warcraft Armory

I'm typically in 4-pc T7.5, [Quartz-studded Harness], [Torch of Holy Fire]/[Voice of Reason], [Life-Binder's Locket].

I don't have a WWS for this parse, sorry. It's a short run, so not 100% accurate and I won't be posting all the details, but close to the values I've been seeing over normal 25 man Uld raids. This was Ignis-->Freya Uld10 (I was offspec enhance DPS for the rest).