I'm not sure how hard it would be to incorporate, but since you're providing HEP for various items, it might be nice to toss in a chart at the end, something along the lines of:
Tier 7 2-piece bonus HEP value: W
Tier 7 4-piece bonus HEP value: X
Tier 8 2-piece bonus HEP value: Y
Tier 8 4-piece bonus HEP value: Z
That'd answer those questions directly when trying to put together a gear set that is "best in set" for your particular casting style.
Measuring the healing benefit of the T8 2-piece bonus is complicated. During a fight with lots of movement, it's great. When using RT-HW-HW, it can increase output. But how much of an increase does the bonus give over what we would have been able to do otherwise? It's not an easy mathematical bonus like the T7 bonuses, but rather it frees us up to have a more flexible healing style. How do you measure that? Providing hep values for the other bonuses will undervalue T8 gear, since the T8 2-piece bonus has value, even if it can't be quantified.
I agree - the 2 pc is almost entirely based on playstyle. I'm pretty sure calculating the 4 pc bonus would be worthwhile/possible, though. I'm just too math-challenged to do it myself - hoping someone might be able to help.
I agree - the 2 pc is almost entirely based on playstyle. I'm pretty sure calculating the 4 pc bonus would be worthwhile/possible, though. I'm just too math-challenged to do it myself - hoping someone might be able to help.
Its not that hard to do the 4pc. I'll see if I can throw it in to my sheet.
Edit: added it to my sheet. Assuming CH spam is a reasonable amount of your healing it pretty much guarantee that 4pc t8 will trump any other gear.
Updating my sheet for the proposed 3.2 changes. I'll update further as I learn more. The change to the CH bounce looks like it will make a nice difference. Also ff you get the full mana back from WS on any ch bounce CH is going to be extremely cheap.
Edit: I am leaving my stats2 calculations as current live calcs if you want to use live calcs or want to compare 3.2 vs live.
Edit2: Updated stats1 calculations with latest info.
Sheet is updated with 3.2 mechanics and added t9 bonus HEP calcs. After last night I've noticed ch is now a greater % of my overall healing making 4pc t8 now out weighing both t9 bonuses. I also changed my wowhead loot rank to use epic gems. Seems likely I'll keep 4pc t8 around for a ch set unless I can get 325 haste from 4 pcs of t9 without losing any other stats.
I wonder if Spell Power (Stats C7) should include Nature's Blessing effect (Stats F24)?
Without it, intellect does not seem to have effect on healing calculations.
Also, it might be worthwhile to integrate crit bonus from Intellect buffs (MotW/GotW, AI, BoK), since now raidbuffed intellect is proper, while crit is not.
Since nature's blessing is already included when you look at your stats in game I opted not to factor int into base spell power. However for my int HEP calculations the spell power is taken into account. If you wanted an option to enter spell power before nature's blessing (if you were building a BIS or something) I could add an option to add in the extra spell power.
In other news I'd added overhealing calculations so that haste's HEP will go up to some extent and crit HEP will go down to some extent due to crit over heals.
Actually, I was trying to model my idea about partial intellect gemming (since Rawr.RestoSham module is broken beyond repair, your spreadsheet remains the only source of reliable math I know of), and I was looking at how much LHW/CH would heal for -- when I found out that changing intellect does not affect those values, I thought that there's some kind of an error in there =) So, yes, an option to include intellect in in +healing would be a good thing.
I created an option to add in the spell power from nature's blessing. I will set it to 0 by default since I assume most people just put in what they see in the characters stat screen, but simply change it to 1 and it will add in the spell power from int.
In the stats 1 and stats 2 sheets I have added some haste cap calculations. I added haste rating needed to hit the 1s gcd cap with and without lust for 1.5s casts, HW with tidal waves up, and 2.5 s casts.
I've been using Shaman_hep for quite some time now and I decided to pop numbers into Diadalos' spreadsheet for the first time. Thus, I have a somewhat newb question to ask about how to use the spreadsheet.
On the Overview tab where it asks the weightings of the various healing spells, it it looking for the percentage that you *cast* those heals? Or are we putting in what percentage of our healing numbers that spell provides? In other words, can I take the "% of player's overall" stat from a Shaman_hep report and plug it into the weightings on the spreadsheet? Or do I need to calculate the percentage of casts that particular spell uses?
I've been using Shaman_hep for quite some time now and I decided to pop numbers into Diadalos' spreadsheet for the first time. Thus, I have a somewhat newb question to ask about how to use the spreadsheet.
On the Overview tab where it asks the weightings of the various healing spells, it it looking for the percentage that you *cast* those heals? Or are we putting in what percentage of our healing numbers that spell provides? In other words, can I take the "% of player's overall" stat from a Shaman_hep report and plug it into the weightings on the spreadsheet? Or do I need to calculate the percentage of casts that particular spell uses?
Thanks in advance for the assistance.
You don't need to figure out percentage of casts, its simply the healing breakdown in recount/World of Logs or % of player's overall.
You will get a little different results from Stass's mod simply because I decided to adjust overhealing into HEP values a little differently. I use my sheet for a "what if..." and then play with stats and see the result. Stass's mod is "What is.."
I also just added haste cap amount for various cast with and without bloodlust and berserking.
You will get a little different results from Stass's mod simply because I decided to adjust overhealing into HEP values a little differently. I use my sheet for a "what if..." and then play with stats and see the result.
Exactly what I was hoping for. "If I change gemming/gear like X, how does that affect Y?"
Thanks again for your help and for the great tools.
Yes I have just been swamped with work (end of year deadline) so I have not had time. I am typically much better about this kinda thing so I apologize but 12 hours days and weekends (plus actually trying to raid with my guild) mean no time for spreadsheet right now. Things should be better in a couple weeks but I won't really have time until then.
After reading most of this thread and looking at the spreadsheets, I would really appreciate if someone could break down the formula I'm seeing used for Healing Wave. I understand most of it except for the 1.88 and how to calculate Tidal Waves into the equation also.
Neither of these stats are in the game anymore though, we now have spell power instead. When they made the conversion, healers typically went from 2000 bonus healing down to 1000 spell power. To make up for the difference, all healing spells in the game are now multiplied by the difference between the old system and the new system.
So I'm a little new to all of this, and i was wondering if anyone could help me out with determining the final amount of a spell, Earlier i saw this....
Where Cast time is obviously the cast time of the spell
TotalModifier is basically all talent increase or anything else like, Blah increase Blah by 10% (or 1.1)
And SpellPower Is your Paper Doll Frame Spellpower at that moment
Also, Do modifiers Scale off one another or do they just stack
like does 10% increase healing + another 20% increased healing equal 30% or 32%
Any help is appreciated, I'm trying to figure this stuff out so i can start doing it on my own, and hopefully carry it over to other classes
EDIT: NEVERMIND! I found my answer in the TTT so I don't think i need help any more
Evaluation of the T10 bonus for four pieces:
Let a shaman with c% critical ( c% of his heals produce 150% of the normal value).
The heal potential is also : 1x(1-c%) + 1.5*c% = 1 + 0,5xc%
The T10 bonus is 25% of the critical heals produced : 0.25 x 1.5 x c% = 0.375 x c%
The increase of the heal is also 0.375 x c% / (1 + 0,5 x c%).
In the usual range (c% is between 10% and 60%), the formula can be simplified without big error : 0,25 x c%.
For example
with 20% of critical, the chain healing produces 5% more
With 50% of critical, 12,5 % more
With 70% of critical, 17,5 % more
I don't know exactly if only the first heal gives the T10 bonus or all heals. The calculation above assumes that all critical heals generate a T10 bonus. If it's not the case, the final result should be divided by about 2.
I think that the influence of this bonus on the heal produced is very big. Probably, the HEP values should be corrected (especially the value of the critical should be increased)
Actually, I was trying to model my idea about partial intellect gemming (since Rawr.RestoSham module is broken beyond repair, your spreadsheet remains the only source of reliable math I know of), and I was looking at how much LHW/CH would heal for -- when I found out that changing intellect does not affect those values, I thought that there's some kind of an error in there =) So, yes, an option to include intellect in in +healing would be a good thing.
If the errors are never reported, then they can never be fixed. Also, it just recently got a massive over-haul that was long overdue. I'm currently checking all the math inside it against Daidalos' sheet to make sure I've got it all sorted out.
Yes, I'm sorry about not reporting problems instead of complaining, but there were just too many of them, so I decided to go and fix them instead of reporting -- recently I submitted some patches (my other nick is onyxmaster), mostly based ony the formulas found here =)
The main task behind those changes was proper calculations of base values (heal values, cast times, rotations). I'm almost sure I got those right. Latency modeling is a bit wrong now (server-side queueing isn't modelled properly), and overhealing model is not properly implemented (it assumes overhealing is a constant value in percent -- while such assumption might be good for verirfication, it won't give you more or less accurate picture of upgrade paths, i.e. stacking spell power above everything else just won't cut it in real raids).
Ah, so you're the one I have to thank for that. Unfortunately, the original model was off someone elses code, and I've not gained enough knowledge in C# as of yet to re-write from scratch, so your patches were an extreme help that fended off a re-write. Cleaning up the latter half is a lot less daunting now, so I thank you very much for the patches.
However, that patch is the main reason I'm finally back here. I've been a little too absorbed in trying to fix the old model instead of seeing what needs to be done/added, so here I am. I'd give it it's own thread if not for the post count issue, but that's not going to stop me from finding out what that needs.
I'm also working on some ideas with the over-heal side to make it possibly a little more realistic.
Currently, the spreadsheet it definitely helping more then Rawr at the moment, so I'm trying to find the specific differences, which are so far many small but major differences.
Anyone else having any luck figuring out the exact mechanics behind the T10 4-piece? My delay releasing T10 4-piece support for shaman_hep has been trying to get the results to match what the calculations expect them to be.
If you take a chain heal hop that crits, multiple it by 0.25 (the value of the T10 4-piece), and then divide by 3 (ticks) and keep a running total of that until the hot falls off it matches most of the time.
The hot can definitely stack past 3 between several hops, but I have not found any data where a single hop stacks past 3 and matches the expected results.
The debug values are the expected values of the tick based on each hop that had crit.
2/17 19:05:24.468: "Chain Heal hot (T10 4P)", amount: 1313, over: 1313, crit: No
debug: hop_1: stacks: 2, last_amount: 360, total amount: 965
debug: hop_2: stacks: 3, last_amount: 115, total amount: 347
Sometimes the data just doesn't match what I am expecting it to be:
2/17 18:05:46.187: "Chain Heal hot (T10 4P)", amount: 1388, over: 1388, crit: No
2/17 18:05:46.187 Warning: T10 4-piece expected tick of 2087, got 1388.
debug: hop_1: stacks: 2, last_amount: 1038, total amount: 2087
I am trying to find the conditions that cause it not to match the expected value so that I can determine exactly how T10 4-piece scales with SP.
05/15/09, 3:21 PM
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