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Old 08/10/09, 8:34 PM   #101
Binkenstein
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Khaz'goroth
Bringing this discussion here rather than the Simple Questions thread. Here's the comparisons between our calculation methods:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...QdnVXc3c&hl=en

Mine has grown to be a little more complex. I'm doing things by each half of the rotation (one with a FS cast, one without), compare dps for that with the dps for an extra LB adjusted by the wait time. For the second half (with the FS recast) I'm also adjusting the LB wait dps figure down by the dot damage/3 * rotation total time less 18 seconds. This adjusts for the "lost" dps from not having FS up and ticking, and prevents any dips from adding more haste.

As you can see from the graph there, Method 1 (aka: my method) and Method 2 (yours) are the same except for 23.25%-25% and 39%-31.25%, where mine jumps ahead.

Have a look and see if you can spot any flaws there, but I'm fairly certain that I've got both calculation methods correct.


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Old 08/11/09, 9:13 AM   #102
Lord Helmchen
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Wow, thank you very much for this comparison.
Your wait2 is exactly wait1 - GCD.
It shows me that our calculations are in the end exactly the same, because I take the necessary FS recast GCD into account while comparing against the wait time and building the rotation iteratively.
You could not have known this beforehand because I did not mention it.

I will try to program a small application, that will print out Rawr.Rotations as spreadsheets based on fixed, entered stats so that we can compare our calculations better.

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Old 08/12/09, 10:57 AM   #103
Lord Helmchen
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Release v2.2.13.0
Elemental Changes:
Reworked the Rotation code.
Added Bloodfury and Berserking.
T9 bonuses added.

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Old 08/12/09, 5:23 PM   #104
Lord Helmchen
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Originally Posted by Binkenstein View Post
...
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...QdnVXc3c&hl=en
...
Have a look and see if you can spot any flaws there, but I'm fairly certain that I've got both calculation methods correct.
While trying to get the same numbers, that you did I noticed a few differences between our spell damage calculations:
  • Lightning Overload seems to be missing the 50% damage modifier for LB and CL.
  • Is the Damage multiplier 1.1639 the spelldamage debuff + clearcasting?
  • Why don't affect your total damage multiplicative bonuses like Concussion, LB Glyph and Call of Flame the base spell damage aswell? It wasn't the case for Lightning Bolt, but for Chain Lightning.

Last edited by Lord Helmchen : 08/12/09 at 5:43 PM.

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Old 08/12/09, 5:35 PM   #105
Binkenstein
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The overload calculation isn't a flat 50% figure (see ldrx's ESSE thread for more information, but you have to halve everything then add the full 10% bonus from shamanism).
Damage multiplier is 1.13*1.03, and from the looks of it I didn't include clearcasting in there.
The multipliers only add, and they are affecting the spellpower damage within each spell.


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Old 08/12/09, 5:49 PM   #106
Lord Helmchen
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Where does the 1.03 come from?

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Old 08/12/09, 6:12 PM   #107
Binkenstein
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That's the damage buff from BM/Ret


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Old 08/12/09, 7:25 PM   #108
Lord Helmchen
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Okay I learned something new since I didn't even know this buff existed .
I changed most of my values already, however I don't understand, yet, why Electrified has the 0.2 bonus on it's spellpower coefficient.

*edit
And do critical Lightning Overload Bolts add the Electrified DoT to the target?

Last edited by Lord Helmchen : 08/12/09 at 8:14 PM.

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Old 08/12/09, 9:59 PM   #109
Binkenstein
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It should have, I think I copied it's formula from Overload and didn't change it.

Overloads don't proc Electrified.

I've updated the sheet again, but it doesn't make any changes to the overall results.


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Old 08/14/09, 9:31 PM   #110
Binkenstein
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Khaz'goroth
There's still something odd with the rotation calculations in 2.2.13

I think it comes down to how you're handling the wait time on the second half of the rotation. When I'm looking at it I see a 0.41 second wait at 17.99 seconds, then the next line is at 18.8 seconds with ... (ie: redo from start). For some reason it's adding the wait time there twice, and skewing the results a bit. If you look at my calculations, a wait of 0.41 seconds on the second half means that you cast another LB with that time.


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Old 08/14/09, 9:43 PM   #111
Lord Helmchen
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Yes I am currently in the state of fixing these issues.
Thanks for the note on the wait.

*edit
I settled using a simple comparison between the rotation results, since I did not have a great idea on how to decide whether to cast another LB or not without knowing the whole rotation, yet.

Last edited by Lord Helmchen : 08/16/09 at 11:04 PM.

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Old 08/31/09, 8:10 AM   #112
Lord Helmchen
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Release 2.2.14:
* Added Flame Shock DoT calculation.
The DoT is consumed now in the damage calculation
* Changed the way additional Lightning Bolts are calculated.
The Dps of whole rotations is compared against each other and the best one is chosen.
* Added Thunderfall Totem parsing.

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Old 09/17/09, 10:36 AM   #113
Lord Helmchen
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in 2.2.17 there is an error in the dps calculation without the flame shock glyph. Assume it as mandatory at the moment. This will get fixed for patch 3.2.2.

# 2.2.17
* The Flame Shock dps calculation had an error. This valued the 2t8 bonus wrong.
* T9 set names fixed once more.

# 2.2.16
* Repaired the broken T9.

# 2.2.15
* T9 bonuses are broken.

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Old 09/17/09, 12:23 PM   #114
Ikefury
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Elune
I'm having issues with Lava burst damage.

It says I should top out (with full buffs/debuffs, in 4pt9 and lava glyph) at around 14800 damage.

However, without the glyph of lava, I do around a max 15600 on live.

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Old 09/17/09, 1:16 PM   #115
Lord Helmchen
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Could you give me a link to a wws/wol report where you hit that hard and possibly the xml file of your character?
This would give me the opportunity to verify this.

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Old 09/17/09, 6:28 PM   #116
Ikefury
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Elune
Originally Posted by Lord Helmchen View Post
Could you give me a link to a wws/wol report where you hit that hard and possibly the xml file of your character?
This would give me the opportunity to verify this.
Okie dokie.


Here's the log WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay.
Wow Web Stats

In this log, I had a warlock friend come over and CoE the target dummy i was on. I then dropped ToW, and stacked my trinkets up to their full stack (I have edited Eye of the Broodmother and Illustration of Dragon Soul to just give a static buff amount, seeing as I can and do preemptively stack them for every boss fight). I am using Glyph of ToW/FS/LB. The only buffs I have are flametongue weapon, ToW, Glyph of ToW, 325 spell power from Eye/Illustration, and CoE.

According to rawr (and unfortunately, I do not know how to upload an xml file of my rawr for you), it says I should max out at 13,954.

My AVERAGE Lavaburst damage was 13,952.

I topped out at 14,855. I had a couple in the 14k range.

So unless I'm misreading something, the lava burst damage seems off to me.

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Old 09/17/09, 6:37 PM   #117
Agash
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I couldn't give a definate answer on this but it appears to me that the range given for LvB damage cannot include the +10% damage for CC as the damage range is less than 10%. If you add 10 % to the values that Rawr gives it looks like your logged figures come out within the range given on Rawr (possibly a little low but you are missing the 3% damage buff from Sanctified retribution on your tests). I could of course be wrong on this.

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Old 09/17/09, 6:58 PM   #118
Ikefury
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Elune
Originally Posted by Agash View Post
I couldn't give a definate answer on this but it appears to me that the range given for LvB damage cannot include the +10% damage for CC as the damage range is less than 10%. If you add 10 % to the values that Rawr gives it looks like your logged figures come out within the range given on Rawr (possibly a little low but you are missing the 3% damage buff from Sanctified retribution on your tests). I could of course be wrong on this.
I only filled in the buffs I had present on rawr for the testing (tow and CoE), but the CC lack could be possible.

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Old 09/17/09, 7:00 PM   #119
Lord Helmchen
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This might indeed be the answer. Since Rawr does not factor in the clearcasting bonus in the spells display. It is just included in the dps and mana usage.

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Old 09/22/09, 6:36 PM   #120
Ston
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Feathermoon
In 2.2.18, the Flame Shock Glyph needs to be changed. To anyone else who noticed this after changing out your FS glyph, just choose it as well as what you've replaced it as.

Likely the handling of Lava Burst will have to be updated as well, but it's easily worked around for now, unless people don't have 2pc T8 (and thus the 3.2.2 Flame Shock glyph functionality)

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Old 09/22/09, 7:41 PM   #121
Lord Helmchen
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It's and was done already on my machine. However since the release was while I was asleep you either have to wait for the 2.2.19 release, that's coming soon, or compile the source on your own.

I'll post here later on how to add Chain Lightning to the rotation.

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Old 09/23/09, 6:05 AM   #122
Lord Helmchen
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I currently calculate a rotation based on some fixed rules, which I hope to improve with your help. At the moment I am unsure on what criteria I should add Chain Lightning to the Rotation. It should be possible to add it every time it is ready, but Rawr would soon start to suggest using mp5/int gear in this case.
In short it won't be easy to weigh the dps gain from CL usage against the dps loss from increased mana usage.

        /// <summary>
        /// Calculates a rotation based on the FS>LvB>LB priority.
        /// </summary>
        public void CalculateRotation(bool addlb1, bool addlb2)
        {
            if (Talents == null || LB == null || FS == null || LvBFS == null || LvB == null)
                return;
            spells.Clear();
            Invalidate();

            float LvBreadyAt = 0, FSdropsAt = 0;
            while (true)
            {
                if (GetTime() >= LvBreadyAt) //LvB is ready
                {
                    if (GetTime() + LvBFS.CastTimeWithoutGCD < FSdropsAt) //the LvB cast will be finished before FS runs out
                    {
                        AddSpell(LvBFS);
                        LvBreadyAt = GetTime() + LvBFS.Cooldown;
                    }
                    else if (FSdropsAt == 0) //the first FS
                    {
                        FSdropsAt = GetTime() + FS.Duration;
                        AddSpell(FS);
                    }
                    else //since FS would run out recast FS now -> Rotation end
                        break; //done
                }
                else //LvB is not ready
                {
                    if (GetTime() + LvB.CastTime > FSdropsAt) //FS will run out
                    {
                        if (LvBreadyAt - (GetTime() + FS.CastTime) > LB.CastTime) //there is enough time to fit in another LB and a FS before LvB is ready
                        {
                            AddSpell(LB);
                        }
                        else if (LvBreadyAt - (GetTime() + FS.CastTime) > 0 && addlb2) //FS would still fit in before LvB is ready
                        {
                            AddSpell(LB);
                            break; //FS recast nescessary -> done
                        }
                        else
                        {
                            float waitTime = LvBreadyAt - (GetTime() + FS.CastTime);
                            if (waitTime > 0f)
                                AddSpell(new Wait(waitTime));
                            break; //FS recast nescessary -> done
                        }
                    }
                    else if (LvBreadyAt - GetTime() <= LB.CastTime && !addlb1) //time before the next LvB is lower than LB cast time
                        AddSpell(new Wait(LvBreadyAt - GetTime()));
                    else //LvB is on cooldown, FS won't run out soon
                        AddSpell(LB);
                }
            }
        }

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Old 09/23/09, 6:46 AM   #123
Binkenstein
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Probably best to go with the CL After LvB rotation. Not sure if you have the Glyph of Thunderstorm in yet either, something I'd forgotten about.


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Old 09/23/09, 6:47 AM   #124
Agash
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Khadgar (EU)
It is a tricky balance we will need to strike. MP5/Int will indeed enable us to maintain a higher DPS rotation for longer and as such will have a 'DPS value' to them which they wouldn't have had before - crit will also be more valuable as a result of the same thing. However, will that outweigh the DPS loss from replacing other traditional DPS stats? I guess that is the question we want Rawr to answer for us.

One solution would be to have a check box so people can choose to optimise for:

1. LB only between LvBs
2. CL only after LvBs
3. CL whenever off CD

Then people can do the hard work of optimising for each rotation and determining which they should use. It would certainly be much easier than you trying to code something that calculates for all of those options and determines which is best.

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Old 09/23/09, 7:11 AM   #125
Lord Helmchen
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Okay so my next step will be implementing these two new rotation options.
Probably not before Thursday though.

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