[Enhancement] Rawr.Enhance thread - Page 2

Levva · 02/24/09, 7:30 AM

Originally Posted by OnosKT

Looking at the weapon buffs code the yellowattackspersecond looks weird. I noticed the comment next to it, but not sure if its' yours or from the cat model.

I think the enh. model needs to consider both talents - the imp SS talent, and weapon speed for yellow attacks. I was thinking about the problem today and this is what I came up with. Not 100% sure if flametongue can proc. weapon buffs (I assume it can't).

2 points in Imp SS: (3 + 4)*chanceToHitYellow/24 (in 24 seconds you would get 3 SS and 4 lava lashes)
1 points in Imp SS: (2 + 3)*chanceToHitYellow/18 (in 18 seconds you would get 2 SS and 3 lava lashes)
0 points in Imp SS: (3 + 5)*chanceToHitYellow/30 (in 30 seconds you would get 3 SS and 5 lava lashes)

To that we need to add the WF hits per second, which I think can be approximated as:

(2*chanceToHitYellow)/(MHspeed*5)

This assumes that every 5th hit we get a windfury (which should hold true for a 20% hit chance).

Thinking about it, this should probably also consider the glyph of windfury in which case it becomes:

(2*chanceToHitYellow)/(MHspeed*100/WFProcChance) where WFProcChance is the value of the proc so 18 or 20 or 22 (not as a percentage)

Ok so...

 
                    float whiteAttacksPerSecond = (1f - chanceWhiteMiss - chanceDodge) / baseHastedMHSpeed;
                    float yellowChanceHit = (1f - chanceYellowMiss - chanceDodge);
                    float yellowAttacksPerSecond = getYellowAttacksPerSecond(character, yellowChanceHit, baseHastedMHSpeed, true);

where getYellowAttacksPerSecond is :

        private float getYellowAttacksPerSecond(Character character, float yellowHitChance, float weaponSpeed, bool mainhand)
        {
            float yellowAttacksPerSecond = 0f;
            CalculationOptionsEnhance calcOpts = character.CalculationOptions as CalculationOptionsEnhance;
            switch (character.ShamanTalents.ImprovedStormstrike)
            {
                case 0:
                    // 3+5 etc is number of SS and number of LL per time interval
                    yellowAttacksPerSecond = (3 + 5) * yellowHitChance / 30;
                    break;
                case 1:
                    yellowAttacksPerSecond = (2 + 3) * yellowHitChance / 18;
                    break;
                case 2:
                    yellowAttacksPerSecond = (3 + 5) * yellowHitChance / 30;
                    break;

            }
            if (calcOpts.GlyphWF)
            {
                 // do something if WF glyph would ofc need to check if WF imbue on that weapon
           }

            yellowAttacksPerSecond += (2 * yellowHitChance) / (weaponSpeed * 6);
            return yellowAttacksPerSecond;
        }

OnosKT · 02/24/09, 10:43 AM

That looks good, but you copy pasted case 0 in case 2 also. Of course with the change to SS base and Imp SS. for 3.1, one day after all those calculations they become irrelevant. On the bright side you no longer need that switch/case.

So that sections should become just:

(3 + 4)*chanceToHitYellow/24

Also if I could make a suggestion. I think the windfury proc should be done something like this:

(2*chanceToHitYellow) / ( MHspeed*100 / WFProcChance )

and WFProcChance should be calculated separetely. This should allow for easier code changes to include the glyph and possible other WF improvements Blizz could add via tier bonuses / glyphs / etc.

So atm. WFProcChance would start as 16.6, and in the glyph option you would add the correct value (I know it is less than 2 due to the 3 min CD but not 100% sure what the exact value is).

Levva · 02/24/09, 12:23 PM

Thanks, fixed the copy/paste error.

I'll need to work out the right formula for WF main, WF offhand and WF both. With and without glyph/set bonus, so I agree your formula is step in right direction.

            float WFProcChance = 1f / 6f;
            if (calcOpts.GlyphWF)
            {
                // need to modify WFProcChance if WF Glyph
            }
            // now add WF yellow attacks
            if (calcOpts.MainhandImbue == "windfury" & mainhand)
            {
                if (calcOpts.OffhandImbue == "windfury")
                {
                    // wf on both need to modify chances
                }
                else
                    yellowAttacksPerSecond += (2 * yellowHitChance) / (weaponSpeed * 100 / WFProcChance);
            }
            else if (calcOpts.OffhandImbue =="windfury" & !mainhand)
                yellowAttacksPerSecond += (2 * yellowHitChance) / (weaponSpeed * 100 / WFProcChance);

Don't mind admitting I'm struggling to see where the proc chance relates to the weapon speed to give 20% observed proc 36% observed dual proc. This is different to how I previously understood it worked of course doing the actual maths will help, pointers to what I'm missing?

OnosKT · 02/24/09, 1:06 PM

One small thing. If you use WFProcChance as 1f / 6f you need to remove the 100 in (weaponSpeed * 100 / WFProcChance) since it should either be

100 / 16.66 or

1 / 0.1666

Malan · 02/24/09, 8:54 PM

I'm actually impressed with the latest version of the module in the 2.2.01 beta. It's identified the few upgrades remaining to me and pretty much correctly IDd my Best In Slot stuff that I already have.

Gems are totally out of whack though, the module is recommending AP gems for every slot even with 'Enforce metagem' checked, and seems to have very little regard for expertise and spell hit capping.

The enhance sim export option seems to work pretty well!

Levva · 02/25/09, 6:51 AM

The big change in the beta is the new gemming templates system. Until its clear how its meant to work its likely to be a bit weird. One of the things I haven't even started to look at yet is how to identify caps and what needs to be altered to make the recommendations fit. What I have looked at so far is getting the base stats right, and then done some tweaks on the dps calcs that were there.

Major items needing addressed :

1) Implement stats calcs for totems (relic slot) - currently these have no impact

2) Verify the logic of all the contributing factors for dps

3) Check implementation of other weird and wonderful procs and talents

4) Setup Glyphs so it does a dps recommendation

Other items as suggested by the community.

[Edit]

I'm thinking that I can model totems as follows :

averagebonus = abiltityBonus * duration * spellAttacksPerSecond

eg: Totem of Dueling : SS gives +60 haste for 6 sec becomes ...

averageHasteBonus = 60 * 6 * SSAttacksPersecond.

where the SSAttacksPerSecond are already coded as

            float hitsPerSMHSS = (1f - chanceYellowMiss) /stormstrikeSpeed;

stormstrikeSpeed being 10s,9s or 8s in patch 3.0.9 depending on Imp.SS talent.

Comments?

OnosKT · 02/25/09, 11:54 AM

Yah, I think that looks good for totems which result in buff per hit. For completeness, you should probably add a multiplication with proc. chance also, for totems like stonebreaker which are not 100%. So:

averageTotemBonus = totemBonus * period * procChance * AttacksPerSecond.

And then hopefully there is a way in Rawr to define an item's properties such that we can get the above values. It might need a large switch/case though.

For the other issue of windfury, I was thinking yesterday about how the number of windfury hits could be modeled and this is what I came up with. There are a couple of points that I have not figured out entirely how to model, so this is an approximation.

For one weapon with WF (this is the easy case):

The problem is that when WF procs, if your weapon speed is bellow the WF cooldown (assuming 3 seconds) then you lose one or more hits that can not proc WF. So I hit and WF procs, 2.5s later I hit again - this can not proc WF, 5s later I hit again and I can proc WF.

So the formula should be something like:

(normal hits * WFProcRate) / (normal hits * (1 + WFProcRate))

where WFProcRate is 0.2 for base or 0.22 for glyphed.

This assumes that the weapon speed (hasted) is between 1.5 and 3.0. If it's lower than 1.5 but above 1.0 you lose 2 hits, so we get:

(normal hits * WFProcRate) / (normal hits * (1 + 2*WFProcRate))

So I guess even that part could be computed as:

(normal hits * WFProcRate) / (normal hits * (1 + FLOOR[3.0 / weapon speed] * WFProcRate))

Now the dual wield with WFs is tricky especially if weapons are not matched. Assuming matched weapons, we have 20% chance per weapon. So say in 100 hits with each weapon, we'd get 40 WF hits. However each of those results in 2 hits where we can not proc WF (weapon between 1.5 and 3.0). But in half of those cases, when the MH weapon procs, the OH can not proc (assuming MH gets priority). So what we have is: 40 / (200 - 2*40 - (20 / 2)) which is the 36.36% we see for hits which can proc. WF.

Modeling this would result in something like:

(normalHitsMH * WFProcRate) / (normalHitsMH * (1 + (FLOOR[3.0 / weaponSpeedMH] + FLOOR[3.0 / weaponSpeedOH] + 1)*WFProcRate))

For main hand we lose 1 or more MH hits, 1 or more OH hits plus one OH hit since MH proced. For Oh we get:

(normalHitsOH * WFProcRate) / (normalHitsOH * (1 + (FLOOR[3.0 / weaponSpeedMH] + FLOOR[3.0 / weaponSpeedOH])*WFProcRate))

For OH we do not lose that extra hit, since the MH's chance to proc WF already passed.

When we have off synced weapons, we need to calculate normalHitsOH and normalHitsMH such that we have a common base. I think this can be done as:

normalHitsMH = offHandSpeed and normalHitsOH = mainHandSpeed. But then the model needs to be divided by:

offHandSpeed * mainHandSpeed to get a common 1s base.

Where this model fails:

1. For unsynced weapons there will be cases where you lose 2 OH or 2 MH hits while WF is on CD due to the other weapon's proc.

2. Haste effects like bloodlust, furry, etc. can result in times when a 1WF loss results in a 2WF loss, if your weapon speed passes that threshold.

Levva · 02/25/09, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by OnosKT

Yah, I think that looks good for totems which result in buff per hit. For completeness, you should probably add a multiplication with proc. chance also, for totems like stonebreaker which are not 100%. So:

averageTotemBonus = totemBonus * period * procChance * AttacksPerSecond.

And then hopefully there is a way in Rawr to define an item's properties such that we can get the above values. It might need a large switch/case though.

Leaving WF to one side for now - its the major cause of headaches and typically why a sim is requried

I'd forgotten about the proc chance. Typically thats implemented as effect * duration /45 so...

            
            else if (line == "Your Shock spells have a chance to grant 110 attack power for 10 sec.")
            {
                stats.TotemShockAttackPower += 110f * 10f / 45f;
            }

There is already a massive bit of if then else if code that has stuff similar to above to track the many and varied types of procs. Most of the totems are missing as they haven't been required for any other spec.

Mindrila · 02/25/09, 5:47 PM

            else if (line == "Your Shock spells have a chance to grant 110 attack power for 10 sec.")
            {
                stats.TotemShockAttackPower += 110f * 10f / 45f;
            }

Are you sure this is correct? As far as I remember (checked the Wowhead comments also) the Stonebreaker's totem has only a 10 seconds internal cooldown and a procchance of 50%.

So somehow it's not quite easy, but assuming one can shock every 6 seconds, you have every 12 seconds the 50% chance of proccing the 110 Attackpower for 10 seconds.

So I would think the bonus AP should be more something like:

            else if (line == "Your Shock spells have a chance to grant 110 attack power for 10 sec.")
            {
                stats.TotemShockAttackPower += 110f * 10f / 12f * 0.5;
            }

craigoary · 02/28/09, 9:46 PM

is there any Mac equivalent for Rawr? Or maybe a website?

Malan · 02/28/09, 10:17 PM

It requires the .net framework so the only way you're going to be running it on a mac is through emulation (wine) or boot camp into a windows partition.

Levva · 03/02/09, 12:12 PM

Beta 3 is now out Rawr - Home

New in the Rawr.Enhance module :

Major Fixes -
Hit Rating & Expertise rating were being calculated and used for miss percentages but the miss percentage wasn't actually being applied to base dps, thus all calculations of hit & expertise relative stats values was wrong.
Armour Penetration was being inverted twice, so that the more armour penetration rating you had the HIGHER the bosses armour was considered to be, and thus the less dmg you did, naturally this reduced the value of Armour penetration somewhat

Minor Fixes
Lots of updates to the display panel, including showing uptimes of UR, Flurry & ED, showing percentage dps contributions of every ability (on tooltip when you hover over the dps calc).

PhyerFly · 03/02/09, 7:16 PM

Using 2.20b3 I'm having an issue where the rawr reports a dps INCREASE of ~60 dps when I uncheck my Glyph of Stormstrike (having only Glyph of Flametongue and Glyph of WF enabled). Not really a priority issue, but odd to say the least. I can share my char profile if it would help debug.

Malan · 03/02/09, 11:48 PM

2.20b3 - maybe I'm missing something but I don't see a buff/debuff option for spell hit.

Weapons are all showing a full bar and saying they're all equivalent DPS I think, it seems to think every weapon is a max upgrade.
[e] Check that - the weapons were fooked until I set my glyphs, after that they were fine.

Santorayo · 03/03/09, 6:07 AM

I've tried the newest version (2.2.0.3) from the beta and I'm scared. The relative stat values are so far off from my enhSim EP that I'm afraid that I'm using enhSim wrong all the time ^^ Especially haste is valued much lower in Rawr.

Rawr.Enhance:
Exp - 2.97
Hit - 2.62
Agi - 1.65
Crit - 1.52
SP - 1.28
APen - 1.12
Str - 1.05
AP - 1
Haste - 0.58

enhSim EP:
ap - 1.00
crit rating - 1.77
hit rating - 2.10
expertise rating - 2.42
haste rating - 1.56
armor penetration rating - 0.85
spellpower - 1.19
strength - 1.10
agility - 1.73
intelligence - 1.40

simulation_time                 2500
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              ES_SS
rotation_priority4              SS
rotation_priority5              ES
rotation_priority6              MT
rotation_priority7              LS
rotation_priority8              LL

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 0/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        1.60
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         30.36
oh_crit                         30.36
mh_hit                          12.47
oh_hit                          12.47
mh_expertise_rating             145.00
oh_expertise_rating             145.00
ap                              3370
haste                           5.18
armor_penetration               1.82
str                             121
agi                             808
int                             546
spi                             187
spellpower                      1200
spell_crit                      27.22
spell_hit                       15.59
max_mana                        12306
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      -
oh_enchant                      -

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        meteorite_whetstone
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           totem_of_splintering

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_2

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major3                    lava_lash

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

draizen · 03/03/09, 6:35 AM

use the ep values in config_lvl80 provided with sim.
atm it adds 200ap and looks how much more dmg you make, but 200ap isn't realistic, maybe onetime in 3.1 when we change expertise for ap gems. EnhSim: Welcome to EnhSim homepage for a better explanation how ep work.
even keep in mind, that rawr is gettin better every day, but its still under development.

Pitbuller · 03/03/09, 7:26 AM

Originally Posted by draizen

use the ep values in config_lvl80 provided with sim.
atm it adds 200ap and looks how much more dmg you make, but 200ap isn't realistic, maybe onetime in 3.1 when we change expertise for ap gems. EnhSim: Welcome to EnhSim homepage for a better explanation how ep work.
even keep in mind, that rawr is gettin better every day, but its still under development.

EP_ap could be 10000 and nothing bad would happen. Ap scale linearly. EP values are calculated:

gained [dps / ep_step] / dpsPerAp

All others ep values calculation use 1Ap= x dps value. Bigger ap step mean lower variance percentage.

OnosKT · 03/03/09, 11:15 AM

If you want relative stat values use the sim. Rawr attempts to model the damage via various equations and that is how it gets the values. The Sim, well it simulates for long periods of time our damage. The models for Rawr are not complete, especially since modeling WF with haste and two diff. weapon speeds is a pain due to the ICD.

Santorayo · 03/03/09, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by OnosKT

If you want relative stat values use the sim. Rawr attempts to model the damage via various equations and that is how it gets the values. The Sim, well it simulates for long periods of time our damage. The models for Rawr are not complete, especially since modeling WF with haste and two diff. weapon speeds is a pain due to the ICD.

I know that. I just took the stat values to show the vast difference in haste evaluation which might hint to a major bug in the calculations of Rawr

nesukun · 03/04/09, 4:58 AM

Hi Levva, I'm glad you're making a good progress in polishing the model for enhancement shammies. Last svn revisions are pretty good. So far, the biggest problem I see is that it has some kind of problem with the offhands (happened to mainhand also before 2.x beta) the only offhands that have a value assigned are Faces of Doom and Iron-Bound tome. The rest are either infinite(?)/max or 0

Picture (can be reproduced importing my main from the armory, though I respec often to restoration, god bless dual specs)

Originally Posted by craigoary

is there any Mac equivalent for Rawr? Or maybe a website?

The authors have been struggling to run it using mono framework but nothing stable so far due to the zillion of bugs that mono has. I've though so many times to port the rawr model to something more portable like java or ruby but I'm a lazy bastard. There are some webs that attempt to have this functionality like wowheroes or warcrafter but most rawr models are of a superior quality and accurancy

edit: it seems that the code contains some promising silverlight references, they can be just a Proof of concept, an experiment, or a future alternate front-end for the models.

Levva · 03/05/09, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Santorayo

I've tried the newest version (2.2.0.3) from the beta and I'm scared. The relative stat values are so far off from my enhSim EP that I'm afraid that I'm using enhSim wrong all the time ^^ Especially haste is valued much lower in Rawr.

Is that v2.2.0b3 beta release version?

What you have to realise is that the Sim is tested and fairly reliable the Rawr.Enhance model is still under active development. You also MUST ensure you have every buff identical between the two if you are to do accurate side by side comparisons. So far I have not got to the stage of being able to do side by side comparisons as I am too bogged down in making sure I've implemented everything. Only after I'm sure all the bases are covered can I start looking to see that the calculations are as accurate as is possible in a closed form solution.

I've done a huge amount of updates since beta 3 release. In particular I have noted that I had not included any options for buffs involving hit, crit, haste. These have been added in the latest SVN release. If you want to test this out visit the thread I am maintaining on MMO Champion Shaman forum - *Some volunteer testers for Rawr.Enhance required* There you will find downloads of the latest dlls. Every time I have a new stable build I post the latest dll there so testers can test out the latest changes.

I would appreciate even more testers especially the really knowledgeable guys who can assist with the details of the individual calculations. The state of the model at present is such that its moving towards the stage where I can concentrate less on checking if every option has been covered ie: sanity checking and concentrate more on whether every last detail of a calculation is included. For this I need more knowledgeable testing.

Changes since beta 3

v2.2.0.32115 - Added support for lots of missing buffs (especially Misery/Imp.Faerie Fire for 3% hit buff & Draenei 1% hit buff)

v2.2.0.30266 - Fixed various Flametongue weapon checks so you only get FT weapon dmg if you have FT weapon imbue enabled

v2.2.0.29329 - Implemented Flametongue weapon bonus from Elemental Weapons, Implemented Bloodlust haste bonus, Lots of tidy up code + Ensured that all stats used in calcs are included in "Relevant Stats",
Added minRange to Int after discussion with Astrylian about stepping ranges, this should fix the issue with Int suddenly being valuable then with a small buff change not being valuable in the Relevant Stats Values graph.
Fixed ArP buffs not implemented in model, fixed expertise to no longer be stepped.

OnosKT · 03/05/09, 12:30 PM

Maybe I am missing something, I have looked over all the Rawr UI and can't figure out where I am supposed to find the relative stat values in order to test that.

Levva · 03/05/09, 1:36 PM

On the graph window at the top it says Chart : Gear > Head. Click here to change it to Relative Stats Values. ie: you are changing which chart to display.

One issue at present I am having discussions with the co-ordinator about is the base stat of relative stat values. At present he is treating them like pure dps increases and there is no single stat at 1.00 as a base stat. I am arguing that this makes it harder to use the RSV for their normal purpose, he is arguing that seeing that Agi adds 1.32 dps is better.

I am not convinced that RSV's can really be viewed in that light as they don't take account of removing one item and re-equipping another. We shall see where the debate ends up. I have already coded a change that would rebase things around AP = 1.00 and await his approval or otherwise to allow the change.

What is the views of this community on the usefulness or otherwise of AP=1.00 as opposed to AP=whatever dps it adds?

hozzer · 03/05/09, 3:43 PM

I have been of the mind for some time that AP or AEP or EP (whatever the preferred terminology is) should be expressed as something other than AP, probably DPS. When the DPS value of AP changes, it can only be viewed in terms of the decrease or increase in the values of other stats using the current system.

Malan · 03/05/09, 4:46 PM

The EP system as we currently use it is an abstraction. AP = 1 is just an abstraction, the 1 is an arbitrary value. So the guy you're in discussion with is probably right.

The sim ultimately produces both so it's not like the sim needs to change. For the Rawr audience, probably better to just provide the DPS equiv.