Yeah I knew what you meant about Rawr and the licensing. To my mind however that would lose one of the major bonuses of Rawr. At present there are lots of people working on it adding new features to the base code and improving on it. For example the complete revamping of the gemming system in v2.2. If you split off the codebase to add EnhSimGUI support, and end up maintaining effectively a separate product, you would lose all of that extra base code development work.

If we stick with the Rawr.Enhance module exporting as much as it can via clipboard, and EnhSimGUI importing that. We can be more flexible. It means that you can remain in full control of the EnhSimGUI, it means that users that don't want to use Rawr are not forced down that route, ie: EnhSim + EnhSimGUI is still viable for users. It also means that users who really want to test out different gear can chop and change things in Rawr and get basic dps calcs which should hopefully be fairly accurate can then with a couple of clicks export and import then run the sim to get a very detailed breakdown. It also means that we retain all the new features added to the base Rawr code to make the interface better.

I really do think that having the two programs running side by side gives the best of all worlds. Fast accurate gear simulations, with minimum mucking about with config files.

Yup you are missing the correction noted above where no haste was taken into account. or was inverted ie more haste = lower dps which was of course wrong.

I've done quite a bit on the module this week. A LOT more testing needs to be done though. So far as I do more thorough tests I find new things (and probably break some too). What I am trying to do is get everything working so that when EnhSim 1.6 is ready and patch 3.1 aware that I can do the export/import thing and compare stats side by side.

Until then there are bound to be some errors in the Enhance module, which only more people assisting with testing will iron out. I'm not sure if a new b6 is due on Sunday if not I'll post a new Rawr.Enhance.dll for download on the MMO Champion site.

I would just like to chime in my support here and say that I would love to see EnhSim built into Rawr, even if just in a limited capacity.

Using Rawr 2.2.0b5. I created my char in Rawr as it will be in 3.1 (dropping all my hit/exp gems for AP ones) and then exported to the sim. Ran the sim, and overall the results seem good - within 300DPS. (With EnhSim doing 3.0.8 it's hard to say what the correct values are) However there are a couple of points that are suspect.

Lightning Shield damage:

Rawr - 704 DPS
EnhSim - 259 DPS

The DPS for LS seems horribly high.

Flametongue

Rawr - 372 DPS
EnhSim - 530 DPS

Again the difference seems pretty high between them. (I don't have glyph of FT) Since I have a slow weapon, I would expect the 3.1 version to be higher than the 3.0.8 version.

Also in Rawr both flurry and ED uptimes seem to be about 8-9% higher then the sim. Flurry - 95% vs 86% and ED - 76% vs 68%.

Also, not sure if it is supposed to be changed or not, but exporting still exports with the buffed values. If it is hard to fix, I was wondering if it would be possible to add a button to the Buff section in Rawr which would basically remove all the selected buffs.

Yeah should be fixed in v2.2.0b6 available at Rawr - Release: Rawr 2.2.0b6 I'd done a fair bit of work that wasn't ready when beta 5 shipped then it took a fortnight for beta 6 to ship. Most stuff should be a lot better now. I just need the EnhSim to be updated to patch 3.1 so I can compare and contrast the calcs to make sure Rawr.Enhance is accurate.

Rawr works differently from other programs. Instead of working out an EP value and applying that to all items and trying to score each item, it does what you actually do in reality. It works out the dps from having your gear equipped then it swaps a piece and recalculates from scratch what the dps would be for that new setup.

So you get the total dps shown for each item ie: the charts show the dps contribution of that individual item, and not some EP value based multiplication. The result is that when hit/expertise capped the value of hit/expertise is ZERO. However it still knows that if it removes an item with hit/expertise on it then it needs to replace that lost values. As every calculation it does REMOVES an item from a slot BEFORE trying to add the new item in and calculate the score. So you are never dealing with negative EPs and strage concoctions like that. All you ever deal in is RAW dps figures.

Hope this helps.

Release v2.2.0b6 is now available from Rawr - Release: Rawr 2.2.0b6

Changes include :

v2.2.0b6 - Added summary box at top as part of model standardisation
Fix for display of Basic Stats to exclude weapon buffs
Implement +30% haste benefit from haste rating for DK, Paladin, Druid, Shaman
Added Hit Rating to display, and some rating tooltips
Tweaks to Flametongue weapon calculated separately for MH & OH
Fixed Feral Spirit DPS only calculated for a single wolf
Apply patch 3.1 normalised damage for flametongue weapon
Fix melee dps calculation to use haste
Raw added attackpower from trinkets/totems etc wasn't removing spellpower for export to sim.
Added T8 set bonus support
Fixed EnhSim Export to use baseGearStats + raceStats instead of including bonuses.
Procced AP wasn't adding SP from Mental Quickness
Fix greatness proc error not adding bonus AP from procced str, agi, int
Fixed Meta gem +3% crit dmg was giving +3% crit chance multiplier
Added support for Flametongue on main hand
Melee & Spell crit displays enhanced and corrected - should now match armory.
Fixed crit export to EnhSim all export features should be buff neutral
Implemented EnhSim set bonus changes for Ulduar
Fix Searing Totem dps, flag SS & LL as only available if you have the talent
Added option to use Magma totem instead of Searing Totem
Fix LS spellpower co-efficient
Updated Gemming Template to better reflect best choices

General Features added

1) Export a Pawn addon string to clipboard
2) View weighted upgrades on Wowhead.com
3) View weighted upgrades on Lootrank.com
4) Added Locale support so item names can now be displayed in one of five local languages (French, German, Russian, Spanish & English)
5) Allow added items to be added from ptr.wowhead.com & fix bug if item not found in Armory.
6) Added feature to display buff sources - Now shows which class/spec provides the buff
7) Loading character from Armory now automatically applies profession buffs (Mining/Skinning) and or Racial (Draenei Heroic Presence) buffs. Profession buffs only applied if max skill.
Cool You can now download Ulduar upgrades from Wowhead to compare against your kit

New General Features added by others

1) New look start page - should make it easier to find your way around and use the application
2) New tips page - should prompt you to use features you never knew were there

Levva, are you interested in specific feedback regarding what the Optimizer has chosen for us? I figure you can do that yourself, but I'm mostly wondering at the choices of Grim Toll and Wraith Strike which Rawr has given to me over CG and Greatness deck. Also, double accuracy enchants instead of at least one berserking. Thoughts?

Edit: also, adding Bloodlust (using default values for uptime) actually decreases my DPS from 6932 to 6863.

Edit 2: huh, re-optimized with a couple extra optioins, and now it's FoFF/MoT for trinkets, WS/AD with accuracy, and bloodlust is no longer decreasing DPS. Must have hit the haste well using the last build.

Edit 3: for some reason, many gems with haste aren't listed as providing any DPS boost at all. This becomes problematic when optimizing because it refuses to choose those gems. As an example, Stark Monarch Topaz (16ap/8haste) gives no DPS increase whatsoever. I assume this is a bug, so yep.

in going between 2.2.0-beta 5 and 2.2.0-beta 6 gave some odd results from the optimizer in terms of gear selection.
If I went and simmed them the beta 5 suggestion gave me better potential dps than the beta 6 suggestions.

I noticed that beta 6 had a much lower spell hit in it's optimization than beta 5.

What I would do (before I noticed that the export ignored selected buffs), was select all the buffs I would actually have in my 10-man. Optimize. Turn off all those buffs and export to EnhSim. I would re-enable all those buffs in EnhSim and do a 20k hour simulation, then compare the results.

What can I provide that would best assist you in determining if there's a bug here, or just a difference in mechanics (say for example that beta 6 is looking more at 3.1 where beta 5/EnhSim was looking at 3.0) I could provide my rawr.xml files and equivalent EnhSim config files.

If you look a couple of posts back in this thread you will see there was a massive amount of changes between beta 5 & beta 6, any one of which could be influencing your results. Both beta 5 & beta 6 were patch 3.1 only.

Also beta 6 now includes the new EnhSim haste parameters ie: melee_haste and spell_haste instead of just haste. This means if you didn't notice this and manually edit then haste would have been entirely missed from your EnhSim config. The other big factor is patch 3.0 vs patch 3.1 - EnhSim is not patch 3.1 ready yet. Until a new version is released its very very tricky to work out whether the differences in results are due to real bugs in the code or patch 3.1 changes.

So I'm kinda in limbo at present until a new EnhSim is released. When it is I'd very much welcome your feedback and config files to help identify any issues.

ok, I'll continue to monitor differences like this and then attempt to reproduce once we have comparable 3.1 versions.

That sounds very interesting regarding haste dips. Can you post an XML config (ie: save file from Rawr) remembering to use [code] tags and the steps to take to view the effect. I can then try to reproduce it and see why its happening. Haste shouldn't have a dip effect especially since the original model struggles a bit to mimic the 3s internal cd.