Edit: As of now, 5/1/09, there is a new Rule for this thread, anyone posting about Fast weapons without EnhSim or Simulationcraft or many hours of targeting dummy testing data explicitly proving their conclusions will be infracted. The game changed with 3.1 and Fast weapons are no longer on the table, if you want to say otherwise you better bring proof or you will get infracted.
As of 6/4/09 there is a second rule.
Castrandom macros work well even if they are lazy and for the most part retarded. Read Enhancement WotLK Talents and spells discussion. and at least the 2 pages following that post before commenting on them in any form. Posting about them without math or sim time or actual playtesting will lead to an infraction.
Shaman (Skills List / Talent + Glyph Calc.)
* Bloodlust/Heroism: Cooldown reduced to 5 minutes, but Sated and Exhausted now last 10 minutes.
* Poison Cleansing Totem and Disease Cleansing Totem have been merged into "Cleansing Totem." Cleansing Totem pulses every 3 sec, down from 5.
Talents
Enhancement
* Lava Lash now has a new icon.
* New Talent: Frozen Power: Increases the damage done by your Frostbrand Weapon if it is enchanted on your main-hand weapon by 10/20%, and your Frost Shock has a 50/100% chance to root the target in Ice for 5 sec. when used on targets at or further than 15 yards from you.
* Spirit Weapons: Now reduces all threat generated by 30%, not just physical attacks.
* Stormstrike charges have been increased by 2, and cooldown reduced by 2 sec.
* Improved Stormstrike re-designed: When you Stormstrike, you have a 50/100% chance to immediately grant you 20% of your base mana.
* Toughness: No longer increases your armor. Instead, this talent now increases your total Stamina by 2/4/6/8/10%.
* Unleashed Rage - Reduced to 3 points, down from 5. Each point now also increases your total Agility by 1/2/3%.
Elemental
* New Talent: Booming Echoes- Reduces the cooldown of your Flame Shock and Frost Shock spells by an additional 1/2 sec., and increases the direct damage done by your Flame Shock and Frost Shock spells by an additional 10/20%.
Restoration
* Ancestral Awakening: This talent now accounts for your ineffective healing, rather than effective.
* Cleanse Spirit now has a new icon.
* Riptide: This spell has a new icon.
Big ones.
Frozen Power - how much of a damage loss will it be to use Frostbrand instead of Windfury on the mainhand in PvP
Improved Stormstrike - mana regen would seem more of a benefit for PvP then for use in PvE since Shamanistic Rage is reliable enough for PvE needs. Does this mean we get another 2 points to spend elsewhere in our raiding builds?
Booming Echoes - how high in the Elemental Tree will it end up being and will it end up being available for an Enhancement PvP build.
Frozen Power - how much of a damage loss will it be to use Frostbrand instead of Windfury on the mainhand in PvP
Improved Stormstrike - mana regen would seem more of a benefit for PvP then for use in PvE since Shamanistic Rage is reliable enough for PvE needs. Does this mean we get another 2 points to spend elsewhere in our raiding builds?
Booming Echoes - how high in the Elemental Tree will it end up being and will it end up being available for an Enhancement PvP build.
Wow. That Unleashed Rage change simultaneously kills any potential of a dual PvE/PvP Enhancement spec, AND is entirely useless. I'm nearly in the best Enhancement gear out there and that'd give me 23 agility for 3 talent points.
Frozen Power - how much of a damage loss will it be to use Frostbrand instead of Windfury on the mainhand in PvP
Improved Stormstrike - mana regen would seem more of a benefit for PvP then for use in PvE since Shamanistic Rage is reliable enough for PvE needs. Does this mean we get another 2 points to spend elsewhere in our raiding builds?
Booming Echoes - how high in the Elemental Tree will it end up being and will it end up being available for an Enhancement PvP build.
Echoes is 35 in, not realistic for just about anything.
I'll definitely be skipping Improved SS or set it as my dual spec with Toughness should a fight require additional healing output/survivability in Ulduar.
Son, to me a robot's just a garbage can with sparks comin' out it.
3% Agi is inferior to 3% Crit, at least right now. That's disappointing.
I'm with you, Rounced, on Imp Storm Strike....its only benefit is being rolled into the base spell, opening up 2 talent points essentially in PvE...maybe. The nerfs to mana regen are disturbing (read the water elemental one).
So, if I read jardeh's character screen correctly, base mana is about 4k. So 20% of that is 800. With a stormstrike every 8 seconds, that's 500 mp5?
That's a lot of mp5. I'm very sorry if I'm being dumb and doing horribly wrong things to math or reading comprehension.
Also, wasn't Malan talking recently in a thread about some prioritizaton that he could only sustain if he had JoW or a mana-battery in the raid?
I cannot keep magma up approaching 100% unless I have replenishment and JoW active. I didn't see his comment, but I can certainly atest to needing both of these for heavy magma usage.
If Imp Storm Strike really translates into 500mp5...well, that seems quite high to me.
3% Agi is inferior to 3% Crit, at least right now. That's disappointing.
I'm with you, Rounced, on Imp Storm Strike....its only benefit is being rolled into the base spell, opening up 2 talent points essentially in PvE...maybe. The nerfs to mana regen are disturbing (read the water elemental one).
I thought of the mage mana regen one as a buff since they are now a solid source of replenishment. The elemental casts waterbolt, the mage casts frostbolt and they are always casting frostbolt so they will be giving replenishement ever ~2 seconds which is more often then most other sources.
3% Agi is 3% Agi - the talent costs 2 points less for the same effect and adds 3% Agi on top of it. It is still a good PvP talent provided you aren't getting the buff from another source since 10% more AP is 10% more AP.
The Stormstrike change isn't bad on any level but unless they are pulling the regen from Shamanistic Rage even casting Magma Totem relatively constantly won't kill us except maybe on trash. For PvP however it is a must have talent since it means we can basically keep Lightning Shield up constantly and get to use Shamanistic Rage purely as a defensive skill without worries about using it during a stun and being OOM and useless without it's regen (however I mostly suck at the Arenas so I await a more concise evaluation from our more Arena skilled brethren).
I thought of the mage mana regen one as a buff since they are now a solid source of replenishment. The elemental casts waterbolt, the mage casts frostbolt and they are always casting frostbolt so they will be giving replenishement ever ~2 seconds which is more often then most other sources.
3% Agi is 3% Agi - the talent costs 2 points less for the same effect and adds 3% Agi on top of it. It is still a good PvP talent provided you aren't getting the buff from another source since 10% more AP is 10% more AP.
Currently, water elemental is an independant source of mana--making it be replenishment is a nerf to it as 25 mans will lose a mana source and gain a (most likely) completely redundant replenishment source. These guys were usually good for 3-6k mana when I was resto. I assume they are still doing similar mana to me as enh.
--edit---just found a WWS where it gave me 2800 in one fight, independant buff from replenishment.
3% Agi is 3% Agi - the talent costs 2 points less for the same effect and adds 3% Agi on top of it. It is still a good PvP talent provided you aren't getting the buff from another source since 10% more AP is 10% more AP.
It's still a buff overall compared to what it is now, but I don't think it's right. I think it was a change that made it through when they were talking of changing mental quickness to agility and pushing our class more to agility. I could see 3% melee crit being too much given we already get 5% earlier in the tree, but there's other stats we're in dire need of(expertise primarily) that would allow us to have some decision in how we gem as opposed to +16 expertise gems across the board.
Currently, water elemental is an independant source of mana--making it be replenishment is a nerf to it as 25 mans will lose a mana source and gain a (most likely) completely redundant replenishment source. These guys were usually good for 3-6k mana when I was resto. I assume they are still doing similar mana to me as enh.
But they were only worth about 40% of a replenishment provider and this gives another source of replenishement for 10 mans while limiting the amount of regen present in 25s which is a stated goal of the developers since they feel that mana is raining down too hard at the moment and they want it to play a more pertinent role in future raid encounters.
So, if I read jardeh's character screen correctly, base mana is about 4k. So 20% of that is 800. With a stormstrike every 8 seconds, that's 500 mp5?
That's a lot of mp5. I'm very sorry if I'm being dumb and doing horribly wrong things to math or reading comprehension.
Also, wasn't Malan talking recently in a thread about some prioritizaton that he could only sustain if he had JoW or a mana-battery in the raid?
It's sustainable without extreme means on non movement intensive fights. I usually redrop magma prior to going into the GCD block and have 0 mana issues(typically JoW+Replenishment, don't spec into focus, don't use SR) on anything other than Grobbulus where I'm redropping it every chance I get. Going through old WWS JoW comes out around the same benefit as SR, so as long as you have (Replenishment, SR, JoW: Pick two) you should be good on just about anything other than squirrel tactic fights.
Son, to me a robot's just a garbage can with sparks comin' out it.
Booming Echoes - how high in the Elemental Tree will it end up being and will it end up being available for an Enhancement PvP build.
Currently on MMO-C as a tier 8 talent, so sorry Enh buddies, you're out of luck on this one, although it raises questions about the "global" shock cooldown.
Frozen Power - how much of a damage loss will it be to use Frostbrand instead of Windfury on the mainhand in PvP
Improved Stormstrike - mana regen would seem more of a benefit for PvP then for use in PvE since Shamanistic Rage is reliable enough for PvE needs. Does this mean we get another 2 points to spend elsewhere in our raiding builds?
Booming Echoes - how high in the Elemental Tree will it end up being and will it end up being available for an Enhancement PvP build.
Frostbrand proc does roughly 520 damage in my PvP gear, it isn't worth using unless they boost the proc rate to 50% or something (like wound poison).
Frost Shock change is okay, but I'm not going to like running AWAY from someone to make sure they get rooted. Seems like it's more a way of giving us peel rather than to help us close/stay on target.
The best change is probably Imp Stormstrike. Having so much mana means we can actually use Lightning Shield/Static Shock. Since mana is no longer really a consideration hopefully, they'll reduce the cooldown of Shamanistic Rage too. I'll probably try http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?sham...0&version=9614 if no other changes are announced. The extra stam of Toughness isn't enough to be worth all the points. Make it reduce the effect of stuns and I might look at the talent.
Changes so far are pretty underwhelming, but I'm hopeful there's more. Fingers crossed for an interrupt off our shock cooldown.
Edit: PvE changes are pathetic. Unleashed Rage bonus is 3% agi. In my PvE gear, that's roughly 23 agi. Imp. WF Totem still has no bonus, so you're still much better off with a DK provider in your raid.
With full raid buffs, totems etc, the UR change should come out to roughly 40 extra agility. That is another ~49 attack power and ~0.5% melee crit. Could be better, but its still a massive increase from what you have right now.
"Bloodlust/Heroism: Cooldown reduced to 5 minutes, but Sated and Exhausted now last 10 minutes."
-> Well, looks like they want to limit Bloodlust to one per encounter. Sated is removed after you die, so you can more easily use it in the next try. Also nice for BG PvP.
"Poison Cleansing Totem and Disease Cleansing Totem have been merged into "Cleansing Totem." Cleansing Totem pulses every 3 sec, down from 5."
-> Great change for PvP, also could help in some PvE situations.
"Lava Lash now has a new icon."
-> Incredible!
"New Talent: Frozen Power: Increases the damage done by your Frostbrand Weapon if it is enchanted on your main-hand weapon by 10/20%, and your Frost Shock has a 50/100% chance to root the target in Ice for 5 sec. when used on targets at or further than 15 yards from you."
-> A joke talent! Without the main-hand contraint, it would be ok, but with it, it's useless. Giving up our best burst ability (windfury), to be able to finally root someone? The 15 yards contraint make it also rather strange to use, because you have to estimate, whether you are in range or not. They should either make it outside melee range or remove the range contraint. Also they could just roll this new effect into our Elemental Weapons talent. Edit: If the frost shock root doesn't need frostbrand on your main-hand (wasn't able to test it yet), then it would be a least a bit useful. But still a strange talent.
"Spirit Weapons: Now reduces all threat generated by 30%, not just physical attacks."
-> Good and easy change.
"Stormstrike charges have been increased by 2, and cooldown reduced by 2 sec."
-> Rolls the talent into the ability, always good and makes place for the new effect.
"Improved Stormstrike re-designed: When you Stormstrike, you have a 50/100% chance to immediately grant you 20% of your base mana."
-> Maybe not that important for PvE, but great for PvP and leveling.
"Toughness: No longer increases your armor. Instead, this talent now increases your total Stamina by 2/4/6/8/10%."
-> A very good change for PvP, but 5 points may still be too much for the effect.
"Unleashed Rage - Reduced to 3 points, down from 5. Each point now also increases your total Agility by 1/2/3%."
-> 2/4/6 expertise would still be a much better idea, especially considering, that we don't get this from most gear because of hunters.
"New Talent: Booming Echoes- Reduces the cooldown of your Flame Shock and Frost Shock spells by an additional 1/2 sec., and increases the direct damage done by your Flame Shock and Frost Shock spells by an additional 10/20%."
-> A bandaid on a fundamental shaman design problem. The shared shock cooldown just has to go away.
"Enhancement shaman's spirit wolves now again always follow their master's commands."
-> Well, that line is still missing in the notes, but I still have the hope, that after half a year, we will probably finally get a fully working 51pt talent.
Personal conclussion: Not enough yet. And also especially in terms of enhancement PvP, we need way too much talents to work. Or other way around, we need to trade in too much damage to have at least a bit of survivability, compared to other classes.
Last edited by SentinelBorg : 02/24/09 at 4:53 AM.
# Thunder Capacitor again requires four charges.
# Thunder Capacitor's cooldown functions.
I suspect that means that each charge will have a cooldown, not just the first charge. This substantially nerfs the trinket to where it belongs as a green quality item.
I suspect that means that each charge will have a cooldown, not just the first charge. This substantially nerfs the trinket to where it belongs as a green quality item.
No. The release cooldown was/is bugged.
Also, SentinelBorg, yes, Sated/Exhausted is removed after you die. Unfortunately, when raid wipes, there are people who vanish/go invisible/feign death. This makes the longer exhaust a whole lot more annoying on new content runs. It would be a better idea if Blizzard made it function like pot limit, i.e. one per fight until you drop out of combat, that's it, possibly bind it to everyone in raid - as in, if a single person has sated, then you can't use Hero (so people can't vanish and regain it).
Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.
"-> Well, looks like they want "New Talent: Frozen Power: Increases the damage done by your Frostbrand Weapon if it is enchanted on your main-hand weapon by 10/20%, and your Frost Shock has a 50/100% chance to root the target in Ice for 5 sec. when used on targets at or further than 15 yards from you."
-> A joke talent! Without the main-hand contraint, it would be ok, but with it, it's useless. Giving up our best burst ability (windfury), to be able to finally root someone? The 15 yards contraint make it also rather strange to use, because you have to estimate, whether you are in range or not. They should either make it outside melee range or remove the range contraint. Also they could just roll this new effect into our Elemental Weapons talent.
Actually, nothing in the talent text indicates you have to have Frostbrand on your MH for the Frost Shock effect to function.
Well they don't nerf JoW or replenishment any, and I continue having virtually zero mana problems on boss fights with the afore mentioned, then best I can tell I'd drop Shamanistic Focus and imp SS and move those 3 points to UR for something like this
Also, SentinelBorg, yes, Sated/Exhausted is removed after you die. Unfortunately, when raid wipes, there are people who vanish/go invisible/feign death. This makes the longer exhaust a whole lot more annoying on new content runs. It would be a better idea if Blizzard made it function like pot limit, i.e. one per fight until you drop out of combat, that's it, possibly bind it to everyone in raid - as in, if a single person has sated, then you can't use Hero (so people can't vanish and regain it).
Well, in the end, this is a problem of the raid. If you need really Bloodlust for the encounter, then people just have to die if a wipe happens. But yes, a solution like with pots would be better.
Looking from the pure dps view, i think this is one of the talents builds that is going to give among the highest output. 17/54/0
Featuring:
full Call of Flame for high magma totem output
more points in Ancestral Knowledge for better synergy with Impr SS.
1/2 Impr SS since mana isnt really going to be an issue, but for those bad raidsetups its nice.
So, if I read jardeh's character screen correctly, base mana is about 4k. So 20% of that is 800. With a stormstrike every 8 seconds, that's 500 mp5?
Little correction :
We are lvl 80 and have 4396 mana-base (wowwiki). If we cast SS, it cost 8% mana-base that is 351.68 mp and the improved talent gives us back 879.2 mp that is 527.52 mp gained per stormstrike. As SS is on a 10 s cd that is “only” 263.76 mp5.
Last edited by Torcha : 02/24/09 at 5:54 AM.
Reason: It's a 10s cd, no more 8s
Little correction :
We are lvl 80 and have 4396 mana-base (wowwiki). If we cast SS, it cost 8% mana-base that is 351.68 mp and the improved talent gives us back 879.2 mp that is 527.52 mp gained per stormstrike. As SS is on a 10 s cd that is “only” 263.76 mp5.
From MMO:
Stormstrike charges have been increased by 2, and cooldown reduced by 2 sec.
Stormstrike at base only has an 8 second cooldown, as per the latest patch notes. That comes out to 329.7 MP5.
I'm a bit confused with this, the tooltip from SS on template from mmo-champ says 10s.
Even the post says : “Stormstrike (Tier 7) now affects the next 4 nature attacks but only lasts 10 secs now. (Previously only affected 2 attacks and lasted 12 secs)”
So the debuff last 2s less or is it the cooldown ? What is wrong, changelog or mmo-champ ??
Does someone know how to show talent panel with lvl1 to check ?
Last edited by Torcha : 02/24/09 at 6:21 AM.
Reason: typo.
Hmm, I don't see anything mentioned about the cd being reduced, only the duration of the debuff (from 12 sec to 10). So does this mean we go back to 10 sec cd (nerf) and get 2 more points to spend elsewhere (small buff).
Although I'm a bit more concerned about having to search high and low for slow OH's again...yes I have one atm but I'm willing to bet they're very hard to come by in ulduar. (and ofc not on the last boss either like those stupid daggers)
02/24/09, 2:22 AM
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