Rouncer

I really hope they give us an acceptable alternative from the new emblems. I have no interest in ever setting foot in the current Arenas and having a PvE BiS that is only available from them is galling to say the least.

Alt mage - Rounce

 

Hassand

I am really looking forward to the + expertise addition on UR and for the improved storm strike. I always found my SS being knocked off by boomkins before my CD was up, and it will be awesome to finally have some jem slots i don't have to fill with expertise...

 

Dragon-CR

Boomkins can't knock off your SS debuff, it's self only since 3.0, although every boomkin and elemental shaman out there wishes they could use it. If it's falling off it's because YOU'RE using it up via ES, LB, and static shock discharges, and the 3.1 storm strike isn't any different than the 3.0 one except you get the same ability from 1 talent point instead of 3.

 

Rouncer

Gem does not equal Jem

Jem = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jem_(TV_series)

Gem = Gem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



e,fb on the SS thing...

Alt mage - Rounce

 

Hassand

Dragon, thanks for clearing that up, my mistake. Just have to look forward to 2 freed up talent points then, and more free Gem slots

 

Densor

I've been trying to do that test. However, it is very hard to get enough haste without WF totem to get a weapon with higher than 3.0 speed down below 2.7 speed (I'm going to try for 2.6 speed from 3.2). However, I was already able to do tests with 2.9 to 3.2 speed weapons while having no talents and no haste rating (and no WF totem). The 2.9 test had significantly fewer back to back procs than the 3.0, 3.1, and 3.2 tests. I even saw a few back to back to back procs from the 3.1 and 3.2 speed weapons, so the WF ICD still seems to be based at 3.0 seconds (which was never really in doubt, but I figured I'd throw some more data at the pile). None of the tests were particularly long though, only one WF imbue duration.

I need to transfer some more mats over and stuff, so it'll be a bit before I can run a long test at an optimal hasted speed. This is just a heads up. I did do a quick test with a 3.2 speed weapon hasted to 2.88 speed. I felt like I saw more back to back procs than when I was doing the unhasted 2.9 speed test. Although that's purely anecdotal evidence and means nothing. I'll post the logs when I'm able to do the longer test, unless someone wants to analyze them now for whatever reason.

On the subject of the math or reasoning behind making haste rating affect the CD: the basic haste modifiers we have total up to 60.68% haste or 66.86% haste with 4pcT7. That's WF totem, Flurry, and Ret Aura or Imp Moonkin Aura or whatever else provides the 3% haste buff. A 2.6 speed weapon is thus hasted down to 1.618 or 1.558 speed, which is just above the area where the WF chasm (whether it really affects our DPS majorly or not) exists. On live, with 7.87% or 3.87% haste from gear, you enter the chasm. However, if the CD is affected by haste rating, your haste will never bring you closer to the chasm, so the issue effectively disappears (other than anomalies from lag).

 

panny

That's a relief, I was putting off buying one partly due to Lava Lash being last on my priority list.

Fix Spirit Wolves not responding to commands.
DK/Rogue

 

Kromjin

Test 1: 2.60 speed, 0 Haste Rating - 2.60 final speed
300 procs

Test 2: 3.80 speed, 719 Haste rating, 20% WF totem - 2.60 final speed
300 procs

All my data in spreadsheet form from Sentinel's parser but rearranged to make it work with a graph. (Sheet 1)
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...C8e60kJQ&hl=en

In graph form:



I'm not much on statistics or math, I chose a trendline that seemed to match, regardless of if it is correct or not, the data lines show enough similarities.

I hope that this provides enough evidence that even a truly ridiculous amount of haste shows no bearing whatsoever on the WF ICD.

Raw combatlogs available if you want them for any reason. Cheers.

[e]Something that is interesting to note from Nevets' and my tests are the existence of those pesky "chasms" that we've always worried about at 1.5 speed, seems they exist for every speed, obviously at different locations. Nevets you are a special person to stay awake for 2000 procs, 600 about did me in.

 

Nevets_69

Performed this exact same test, but avoided using WF totem. I have all the combat logs if anyone wants to see them, but for the sake of brevity I summarized the data in this spreadsheet similar to Kromjin.

All tests were performed with 0/0/0 talent specs, and no WF glyph. (I had the SS and LS glyphs) The only actions taken for the duration of the tests were auto-attack, jumping every 5-15 minutes to avoid getting logged out, and refreshing WF imbue. I think that covers about everything, if you any other questions PM me and I'll update the post.

Test 1: [Tabar] w/ 14.43% Haste (473 rating) Final speed: 2.7966
2946 attacks, 505 procs (1010 strikes); 17.1419% proc rate

Test 2: [Large Axe] w/ 0.00% Haste (0 rating) Final speed: 2.80
3103 attacks, 507 procs (1014 strikes); 16.3390% proc rate




I did another test with faster weapons (also 1 handers) to see if the results would be any different.

Test 3: [Angry Dread] w/ 13.66% Haste (448 rating) Final speed: 2.1995
2952 attacks, 502 procs (1004 strikes); 17.0054% proc rate

Test 4: [Cleaver] w/ 0.00% Haste (0 rating) Final speed: 2.20
3201 attacks, 506 procs (1012 strikes); 15.8076% proc rate



It's interesting to notice, that while haste does not appear to affect the WF CD, there does seem to be a discrepancy in the WF proc rate. The hasted tests have a proc rate ~1% higher than the unhasted tests. Obviously you can't draw any direct conclusions from just these 4 tests, but it might be something to think about.

Elemental Shaman: You're OOM.
Enhancement Shaman: So are you.

 

OnosKT

Didn't get a chance to run the tests for both last night. Only got the base speed tests, but won't bother with the hasted one now.

Those three tests should pretty much prove that haste has no effect on the WF cooldown to anyone.

 

Krim

From MMO:

 

Dsalt

edit: beaten to it by krim.

Looks good for pvp and maybe even pve havent had time to do any math on it yet though.

edit 2: need to do a ppm check on frostbrand once the ptr comes up, or does anyone know if bosses are immune to the slowing effect?

 

Deathicle

That brings Frostbrand in line with with FT for the offhand easily. A 10% increase in damage for virtually every ability we use is fantastic!!! The Frostbrand PPM is easily high enough on to have near 100% uptime on bosses.

 

Malan

Sort of a confusing change though. Anything that multiplies the damage of our spell effects will increase the important of spell power, which is something GC said they're trying to move us away from.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Krim

Even odder they removed the reduced Flurry haste, reducing melee damage .... :/

It's some odd changes, indeed.

 

Lucentia

^^ what he said heh

 

Malan

Definitely concur on the frostbrand uptime though - just did a 5 min test in org and the debuff only falls off for a second at a time when using a slow OH with FrB.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Deathicle

Not really. With the Flametongue spell power coefficient scaling to weapon speed, we would only ever consider using the slowest of the slow caster weapons.

The really interesting thing is that they seemed to have rolled in Rounced's 'Lash' idea with Hothgor's 'Elemental Weapons' idea into one ability and a change to Frostbrand base damage. But remember, when you use Frostbrand on the offhand, you are no longer getting the bonus 274 spell power that it used to convey. Fully raid buffed, most shamans see a spike in spell power to around 2500ish, so this is a ~10% nerf to our overall spell power, while giving us a 10% increase to our spell damage. Due to coefficients on spells, it probably comes out as a net gain. The reduction of flurry probably does NOT offset this damage increase, but you now need to spend 2 more talent points to have the flexibility of using Frostbrand or Flametongue.

I would wager that 2 points out of Improved Shields in favor of Frozen Power and all the other changes works out to be around the same overall damage, if not a slight increase.

The only negative thing about this change is the apparent loss of a Frost Shock root...

 

Malan

I didn't say caster weapons, I said spell power.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

• Shabadu

The talent calculator still mentions the frost shock root after the new additions.

 

Destyn

Does the Frostbrand "Debuff" actually land on bosses though? I was under the impression they were immune to it.

 

Dsalt

My bet is that most bosses are/will be immune to the slowing effect which will make Frozen Power a pvp talent only. The change to flurry would then be the expected nerf to make up for the 9 expertise we get from UR. But im only guessing, I dont even have frostbrand on any of my bars atm and dont know anyone who have tested it against a boss so have to wait for ptr to get back up to test this.

 

Protico

It does work on the boss level target dummy, which is not a definitive test to be sure. Usually with effects like this the boss will be "immune" to the effect but still be affected by the spell, like counterspell as an interrupt.

 

Kromjin

Remember that, up to this point, we were the only class with a 30% flurry, this has been some time coming. Warriors had flurry dropped to 25% several years ago.

 

Malan

It came and went back in beta. They already reduced flurry to normalize it across the classes once before. They reinstated it when it was shown that 5% loss of flurry haste for enhancement was a tremendous dps hit.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06