They still would want to prevent people quickly getting upgrades even for Ulduar 25. The T8 10 man set is superior to T7.5 in several slots and would be a quick upgrade for those with the emblems.
They still would want to prevent people quickly getting upgrades even for Ulduar 25. The T8 10 man set is superior to T7.5 in several slots and would be a quick upgrade for those with the emblems.
Based on what I have seen on mmo champion so far, the T8.10 pieces appear to be side-grades for almost all 25 man geared players. There will of course be exceptions for a few T7.25 quality pieces that are poorly itemized versus the same piece from T8.10 or some T8.10 pieces that are perfectly itemized that may end up being better than their equivalent T7.25 pieces.
Overall I agree with Malan that it is unnecessary for them to hold back the T8.10 tokens on the valor vendor. They may still end up holding them back, but looking at the current stuff I don't see any reason to do that.
For pvp, I was thinking of running with this build Talent Build because it allowed me to get imp fire nova totem. But I was also thinking of filling out toughness for the extra stamina.
Anyone with pvp experience care to enlighten me to which would be better?
For pvp, I was thinking of running with this build Talent Build because it allowed me to get imp fire nova totem. But I was also thinking of filling out toughness for the extra stamina.
Anyone with pvp experience care to enlighten me to which would be better?
Don't take Anticipation over UR. 10% ap and a free 9 expertise outweighs having anticipation and another weapon enchant by a fair amount. Other than that I'd recommend dropping a point from DW spec and moving it to guardian totems. If there was a way to get imp fire nova and 2/2 guardian totems that's what I'd do, but I wouldn't give up anything you don't already have to get them both.
For pvp, I was thinking of running with this build Talent Build because it allowed me to get imp fire nova totem. But I was also thinking of filling out toughness for the extra stamina.
Anyone with pvp experience care to enlighten me to which would be better?
You don't need to cap out DW spec for PvP. You will(should) be getting ~4% from gear to cap spell hit for PvP, so you only need 1 point in DWS to cap your specials.
Reverberation is also more important for PvP as our main job is focus shocking.
In reality though toughness is still not worth 5 points. It needs to be reduced to 3.
As far as nova totem goes, it has a 4 second fuse, and more often than not hits nobody in organized pvp because the fight has either moved in that 4 seconds, or it has been destroyed.
As far as reverberation goes, I dont think I could spare the points to pick it up. Im not sure they're gonna drop toughness to 3 points, so for right now Ill probably go with
As far as reverberation goes, I dont think I could spare the points to pick it up. Im not sure they're gonna drop toughness to 3 points, so for right now Ill probably go with
In my opinion, you should drop toughness from that build and get Imp Nova Totem and Guardian Totems. I feel that Imp Fire Nova Totem is mostly a defensive tool rather than an offensive one, since you have to stay in the same area for it to be worthwhile. Drop it then Stoneclaw if you're afraid it'll get destroyed before the explosion, and you'll also get your damage shield from Stoneclaw to boot.
As for getting reverberation, definitely drop Elemental Fury. Most of your MW procs will be used for healing rather than LB or CL, at least in 2s, 3s, and BGs/World, so you lose about half of the benefit from the talent. If you mostly play 5s, though, and someone else on your team can do spot interrupting, then by all means keep EF so that you can better burst down the other team.
The thing that stands out is a LOT more haste especially when melee haste is getting a +30% stats boost anyway.
Has anyone worked out if this actually compensates the loss of the 4pc bonus from T7.x? It almost feels like it's being made up for with the huge jump in the haste we're receiving.
Well on live right now it's 32.79 haste rating for 1% haste.
So the 5% from the 4pc T7 works out to be about 163.95 haste rating (actually a little less because uptime is not 100%).
With the 30% boost to haste effectiveness, we should need 32.79/1.3 = 25.22 haste rating for 1% haste.
So to make up 5% we'd need 126.12 haste rating (again a little less because of actual uptime on Flurry).
So with an extra 156 haste rating being the only appreciable different between T7 and T8 stats (ignoring the set bonus for the moment) we'll actually be better off with T8. I'm pretty sure about those numbers, the only one I would have any doubt about is the 32.79, I got that from wowwiki, couldn't find it in the TTT.
Elemental Shaman: You're OOM. Enhancement Shaman: So are you.
Well on live right now it's 32.79 haste rating for 1% haste.
So the 5% from the 4pc T7 works out to be about 163.95 haste rating (actually a little less because uptime is not 100%).
With the 30% boost to haste effectiveness, we should need 32.79/1.3 = 25.22 haste rating for 1% haste.
So to make up 5% we'd need 126.12 haste rating (again a little less because of actual uptime on Flurry).
So with an extra 156 haste rating being the only appreciable different between T7 and T8 stats (ignoring the set bonus for the moment) we'll actually be better off with T8. I'm pretty sure about those numbers, the only one I would have any doubt about is the 32.79, I got that from wowwiki, couldn't find it in the TTT.
32.79 is absolutely correct.
Nice one on the numbers. I've completely overlooked the fact that the 30% boost reduces the haste rating needed. Judging by your calculations, we are way better off with the flat haste bonus through gear rather than the set bonus.
Blizzard has said to the contrary. They have said they try to prevent people stockpiling things to use with new content (and no I am not searching for that post). Since the 10 man Ulduar is 6 iLvLs higher than the T7.5 set and isn't that bad itself (the gloves for example are much better than T7.5) then they probably are trying to prevent people from quickly getting the items.
PTR already drops Valor badges from 10 man, and Conquest from hard modes.
Unless 8.10 is only accessible in hardmode (which we know isn't the case considering hardmode is 226 ilvl), they will be available for valor badges, or not available for any badges altogether. I know ilvl 219 throws people off, but honestly getting a couple pieces of situational upgrade from stocking up from previous patch isn't really that bad. It's not like people start off on equal footing anyway due to RNG on loot.
The one thing I haven't understood by a lot of builds that you guys are doing is that nobody takes a good account of what T8 will be doing for Enhancement Shamans.
The 4 piece bonus is 20% additional chance for MW to proc, combined with all the haste we already have and what it will be, I would imagine that we would get a MW proc every few seconds (2 per rotation, versus 1).
My guesstimation is that with all the talent points working together (Elemental Fury, Elemental Devastation, and Call of Thunder) that suddenly Lightning bolts will do a lot more damage a lot more often then what happens now.
The tradeoff in that build is that there is no Feral Spirit (which I've been getting along fine without) and you will essentially be a balls to the wall DPS setup since none of your totems really are better then what is available in the raid.
The one thing I haven't understood by a lot of builds that you guys are doing is that nobody takes a good account of what T8 will be doing for Enhancement Shamans.
The 4 piece bonus is 20% additional chance for MW to proc, combined with all the haste we already have and what it will be, I would imagine that we would get a MW proc every few seconds (2 per rotation, versus 1).
My guesstimation is that with all the talent points working together (Elemental Fury, Elemental Devastation, and Call of Thunder) that suddenly Lightning bolts will do a lot more damage a lot more often then what happens now.
The tradeoff in that build is that there is no Feral Spirit (which I've been getting along fine without) and you will essentially be a balls to the wall DPS setup since none of your totems really are better then what is available in the raid.
You're sacrificing 300-400dps for an extra 5% crit on an ability that currently makes up 15% or less of our current dps. That doesn't make sense at all. We already spec into Elemental Fury and Elemental Devastation and Lightning Bolts aren't just "jumping up" in damage. You'd just be trading off Feral Spirits for Call of Thunder on the basis of the set bonus.
Elemental Mastery - Lightning Bolt - Die - Reincarnation - Lightning Bolt - Lightning Overload Procs - Die
The tradeoff in that build is that there is no Feral Spirit (which I've been getting along fine without)
Fine without? Maybe. But in terms of maximizing the DPS right now that is not optimal. It's not like content right now is very hard, so in the end doing fine pre 3.1 is not that important.
And Enhancing Totems is better than anything else in the raid. DKs do not get improved str/agil so theirs is 155 and ours is 178 if I am not mistaking. EF and ED will be taken by most enh shamans anyway, so the difference between your build and others is in Call of Thunder vs. Wolves. So you basically get 5% more crit on LBs versus 250-300ish DPS from wolves.
Doing some calculations (I'll post them if you want) shows that the extra 5% crit chance comes up to about 175 extra damage per LB hit assuming 3500 damage per LB (which is what my WWS shows for me on average - this is probably higher than real since it includes stuff like Thaddius). So you would need more than 1 LB per second for CoT to beat wolves. (This calculation does not include the ED extra melee crit, but then again ED up time is pretty high.
The one thing I haven't understood by a lot of builds that you guys are doing is that nobody takes a good account of what T8 will be doing for Enhancement Shamans.
The 4 piece bonus is 20% additional chance for MW to proc, combined with all the haste we already have and what it will be, I would imagine that we would get a MW proc every few seconds (2 per rotation, versus 1).
My guesstimation is that with all the talent points working together (Elemental Fury, Elemental Devastation, and Call of Thunder) that suddenly Lightning bolts will do a lot more damage a lot more often then what happens now.
The tradeoff in that build is that there is no Feral Spirit (which I've been getting along fine without) and you will essentially be a balls to the wall DPS setup since none of your totems really are better then what is available in the raid.
The thing is, it's not a 20% increased proc chance but a 20% increased frequency. Thus, for every 1 MW5 we get per rotation now, we'd get 1.2 MW5 per rotation, not 2 per, which translates to a ~16.7% decrease in the amount of time between MW5 procs. Thus, the amount of damage LB does for us would be increased by 20% if we don't change our talents, not including the lessened amount of damage that we would receive from other sources for interrupting our rotation more often.
Going with that build, you lose wolves and gain 5% of a 20% increase, which comes to a total of a 6% increase in LB damage w/ that build relative to our normal build, both with 4pc T8 (1.05 * 1.2). Note that these are absolute increases, not relative increases. While napkin math can help to an extent, we should really get some parses or sims running to test whether a 6% absolute increase in LB damage is enough to overcome the amount of damage that wolves and Enhancing Totems do.
I didn't account for loosing the Enhancing totems since there is always some other class that does a fairly similar buff (Horn of Winter) Etc.
Horn of Winter: 155 strength and agility
Strength of Earth: 178 Strength and agility (23 more agility and strength, total of 56AP and some tiny % of crit)
The other thing is, I never really see the wolves as being a big benefit. They usually will only do 2-300dps for 45 seconds out of a 3 minute cooldown (62.5 dps for 250dps average)
I personally think that with that combination and stacking a few totems/glyphs, it could make for a very powerful build.
I have no idea how to run the sim, but i'd love to see numbers.
And just to note, I usually design my spec based on the members that usually show up for a raid. I designed that specific spec for how my guild raids, so I wouldn't suffer not having that extra boost from the buffed SoE and FT toem.
The other thing is, I never really see the wolves as being a big benefit. They usually will only do 2-300dps for 45 seconds out of a 3 minute cooldown (62.5 dps for 250dps average)
My wolves do around twice that on the heroic training dummies, and can go up to 1k dps with fury and full raid debuff on the target.
I didn't account for loosing the Enhancing totems since there is always some other class that does a fairly similar buff (Horn of Winter) Etc.
Horn of Winter: 155 strength and agility
Strength of Earth: 178 Strength and agility (23 more agility and strength, total of 56AP and some tiny % of crit)
The other thing is, I never really see the wolves as being a big benefit. They usually will only do 2-300dps for 45 seconds out of a 3 minute cooldown (62.5 dps for 250dps average)
I personally think that with that combination and stacking a few totems/glyphs, it could make for a very powerful build.
I have no idea how to run the sim, but i'd love to see numbers.
And just to note, I usually design my spec based on the members that usually show up for a raid. I designed that specific spec for how my guild raids, so I wouldn't suffer not having that extra boost from the buffed SoE and FT toem.
Numbers from my most recent Patchwerk: LB 13% of damage, 37% crit, 650dps. Adding 5% crit to that would bring it up to 673dps adding a mere 23dps. My wolves however were 3% of my total DPS or 150dps. In addition my LBs represented a higher percentage than normal for me since melee had to wait almost 20 seconds for OT2 to get hit. Wolves are WAY better than CoT.
As for Horn of Winter vs. Enhancing totems... again. First of all 23*2 = 46, but that isn't really important. The additional intellect which is your only other option there represents 6% of ~600 (high number to favor your argument) or 36ap. You would personally gain more AP from enhancing totems, let alone the fact that the rest of the melee and the tank also benefit from it. If you are going OOM there are much higher mp5 talents available than the replenishment or base mana benefits from AK as well.
... So does the horn of winter. but thank you Protico, you did make me think abit.
I was imagining that there would be a good benefit from the 4 piece bonus, but I misread the original caption. However, I've not had any mana issues at all in a raid environment mainly because of Elemental Focus.
... So does the horn of winter. but thank you Protico, you did make me think abit.
I was imagining that there would be a good benefit from the 4 piece bonus, but I misread the original caption. However, I've not had any mana issues at all in a raid environment mainly because of Elemental Focus.
My mistake on the wolves, thanks guys.
Well the totem bonus is over and above what HoW can provide, I was only talking about the bonus amount.
As far as Elemental Focus is concerned I did a little math the other day to compare the various efficiency talents we have, this is what I found:
1. Shamanistic Rage: 500 mp5, 1 talent point.
2. Shamanistic Focus: 296.6 mp5, 1 talent point.
3. Improved Stormstrike: 550 mp5, 2 talent points (275mp5/talent point).
4. Elemetal Focus: ~170mp5, 1 talent point.
5. Convection: 88mp5, 1 talent point.
The new Imp SS talent will provide more mp5 per talent point than elemental focus will. The one other talent that your spec is skipping which you may want to reconsider is Imp WF totem. Unless you have a DK who will be tanking regularly and will spec IIT, the DPS DKs won't be frost come 3.1. Just something to consider.
03/19/09, 7:27 PM
Numbers from my most recent Patchwerk: LB 13% of damage, 37% crit, 650dps. Adding 5% crit to that would bring it up to 673dps adding a mere 23dps. My wolves however were 3% of my total DPS or 150dps. In addition my LBs represented a higher percentage than normal for me since melee had to wait almost 20 seconds for OT2 to get hit. Wolves are WAY better than CoT.
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