Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Shamans

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02/24/09, 10:38 AM   #51
SentinelBorg
Don Flamenco
 
SentinelBorg's Avatar
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Blackrock (EU)
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Yah, it's all listed on the MMO Champ front page.

@Levvaa - ugh, don't post it in the Shaman forum (noticed after I replied). The devs basically ignore the class forums now, they expect those to be "class X helping class X" rather than having actual discussion there.
Yes and he should add a signature with "My european main char shaman <Armory Link>", to save him from "post with your main char!"-trolls.

And I guess the current 10 sec stormstrike cooldown is a bug, because it clearly contradicts the patch notes. Most probably, the developer just substracted the 2 seconds of the wrong value (debuff length, instead of the cooldown).

Last edited by SentinelBorg : 02/24/09 at 6:02 PM.

Germany Offline
Old 02/24/09, 10:46 AM   #52
OnosKT
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Kel'Thuzad
Glyph of Feral Spirit *new* -- Your spirit wolves gain an additional 30% of your attack power.
Hmm looks like that MIGHT be viable would be interesting to sim.
Do we know how do the wolves currently scale with out AP? And from what I know, the sim. does not even simulate the wolves, which probably decreases the importance of AP a bit.

Anyway, I'll try and run some tests today to see how do they scale.

Offline
Old 02/24/09, 10:46 AM   #53
Rouncer
Deeper Shade of Blue
 
Rouncer's Avatar
 
Rouncer
Orc Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by panny View Post
There is no way that's the PPM of Frostbrand. Where are you getting this data from?

Anyway, I can see why they put the limitation on Frozen Power at 15 yards. A 5s root on a 6s CD is way too good if you could use it at will. Hell, it might be too good as it is. I can see Elemental Shamans in a hybrid spec just to pick this up.
Frostbrand Weapon - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

Problem with 15 yards is the current UI give no way to know if you are 15 yards away or 14 yards away, just make it only root if outside of melee range since if you stick an "Attack" button on a bar it will tell you if you are in melee range of a target or not (which will also be important for using that ability on a focus macro to help peel from your healer in the Arenas).

(e) Wolves get 30% of your AP.

Offline
Old 02/24/09, 10:50 AM   #54
panny
Bald Bull
 
panny's Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Barthilas
Haha, I think it's been awhile since they last tested it:

Combat parses after the 1.11 patch have shown that Frostbrand appears to be a proc-per-minute buff. In other words, slower weapons have a higher proc rate, so that the number of procs will be fairly consistent over time, regardless of weapon speed. The proc rate appears to be normalized to roughly 9 procs per minute.


Offline
Old 02/24/09, 10:51 AM   #55
Levva
In Awe of Shocks
 
Levva's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Khadgar (EU)
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Yah, it's all listed on the MMO Champ front page.

@Levvaa - ugh, don't post it in the Shaman forum (noticed after I replied). The devs basically ignore the class forums now, they expect those to be "class X helping class X" rather than having actual discussion there.
Ok try here instead World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Shaman: Unleashed Rage Change Request The PTR forum.

Author of ShockAndAwe Enhancement Shaman max dps addon
Please use the EnhSim by Ziff & others to simulate what gear, priorities etc are the best dps. You can use ShockAndAwe to export your paperdoll stats to EnhSim.

Offline
Old 02/24/09, 11:36 AM   #56
Rouncer
Deeper Shade of Blue
 
Rouncer's Avatar
 
Rouncer
Orc Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by panny View Post
Haha, I think it's been awhile since they last tested it:
It's been a long time since there has been any need to test it but why would that invalidate the results?

When we get on the PTR it should be easy enough to run a proper timed test to validate the results, remove all haste and haste effects and autoattack a dummy for at least 100 minutes and see how many procs you get.

Last edited by Rouncer : 02/24/09 at 11:55 AM.

Offline
Old 02/24/09, 11:47 AM   #57
rava
sparks keep me warm
 
rava's Avatar
 
rava
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post
Do we know how do the wolves currently scale with out AP? And from what I know, the sim. does not even simulate the wolves, which probably decreases the importance of AP a bit.

Anyway, I'll try and run some tests today to see how do they scale.
If it helps any I have a friendly warrior that I whisper whenever I wolves to shout. He was being lazy last week and didn't do it much so I was able to browse the logs on buff gains and it looks like average damage of the wolves increased from 402 to 424 when shout was active on them. It's not terrible considering they get ~100 swings off during their lifespan if it's timed with heroism, shame they still have terrible crit/expertise though.

Son, to me a robot's just a garbage can with sparks comin' out it.

Offline
Old 02/24/09, 11:51 AM   #58
Sulaa
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Lightninghoof
Stoneclaw changes

"Glyph of Stoneclaw Totem *new* -- Your Stoneclaw Totem also places a damage absorb shield on you, equal to 4 times the strength of the shield it places on your totems." -taken from MMOchamp list of changes to glyphs

I'm reading this to mean they are changing Stoneclaw to put a shield on the totems so they are not eaten as fast as they are in pvp as they are now.

Offline
Old 02/24/09, 12:13 PM   #59
Daidalos
Great Tiger
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by Sulaa View Post
"Glyph of Stoneclaw Totem *new* -- Your Stoneclaw Totem also places a damage absorb shield on you, equal to 4 times the strength of the shield it places on your totems." -taken from MMOchamp list of changes to glyphs

I'm reading this to mean they are changing Stoneclaw to put a shield on the totems so they are not eaten as fast as they are in pvp as they are now.
Stoneclaw already puts a shield/extra health (its been this way since 3.0) on your totems to help prevent them from being destroyed.... this is only a change to add the personal shield.

Last edited by Daidalos : 02/24/09 at 12:27 PM.


Offline
Old 02/24/09, 12:25 PM   #60
crazyhammer
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Mok'Nathal
shield

Originally Posted by Daidalos View Post
Stoneclaw already puts a shield (its been this way since 3.0) on your totems to help prevent them from being destroyed.... this is only a change to add the personal shield.
Wonder if you drop it and then redrop another totem in its place if the shields goes away? I can't get into the PTR to test. I login walk about 3 steps and game crashes on me.

Offline
Old 02/24/09, 12:33 PM   #61
Daidalos
Great Tiger
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by crazyhammer View Post
Wonder if you drop it and then redrop another totem in its place if the shields goes away? I can't get into the PTR to test. I login walk about 3 steps and game crashes on me.
I am betting that stoneclaw has to be down for the shield to be up since thats how it works on the other totems but ya I'd like to see someone test this. Would be really handy for those silenced "oh crap" moments.


Offline
Old 02/24/09, 12:49 PM   #62
Vendettwo
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by OnosKT View Post
Do we know how do the wolves currently scale with out AP? And from what I know, the sim. does not even simulate the wolves, which probably decreases the importance of AP a bit.

Anyway, I'll try and run some tests today to see how do they scale.
I might be wrong but I think wolves scale with our hit rating and stam, really obscure.

I had a 3-4 page thread begging for expertise on UR when the first posted the change. I made it on the shaman forums though, that was a huge mistake.

Ret palies are the only other melée class that doesn't have and endogenous source of expertise. Palies at least share gear with warriors though and their gear actually has some.

We share gear with hunters and no offset mail piece will (and shouldn't) have expertise. Only 2 pieces of our set has some as well. Most of use a 200 neck just because it has Exp/hit on it.

Some1 make a thread on the damage dealing forums and I'll help bump for justice.

Offline
Old 02/24/09, 12:54 PM   #63
Malan
Mike Tyson
 
Malan's Avatar
 
Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
One might almost expect that the ThinkTank entry for enhancement shaman would have explicit information on how Feral Spirit scales with the shaman's gear.

HMMMM...

United States Offline
Old 02/24/09, 1:25 PM   #64
Disquette
doop doop de doooo
 
Disquette's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Sargeras
Originally Posted by Torcha View Post
Little correction :
We are lvl 80 and have 4396 mana-base (wowwiki). If we cast SS, it cost 8% mana-base that is 351.68 mp and the improved talent gives us back 879.2 mp that is 527.52 mp gained per stormstrike. As SS is on a 10 s cd that is “only” 263.76 mp5.
Would you have casted stormstrike if it didn't give you mana back?

If yes (obviously you would have), then your pre 3.1 stormstrike = -351 mana.

Your post 3.1 stormstrike = +527 mana.
527 - (-351) = 878
878 / 8 seconds = 110 mps
110 mps = 550 mp5.

So, we have gained 550 mp5 compared to our former state. Or it if turns out that it's a 10 second cool down, then you're 440mp5 better off than before.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...6766?page=3#41
Let me map a priority list out for you so that you can refer to it in the future:
1. Money 2. Money 3. PvE 4. Mages 5. Companion pets 6. PvP

United States Offline
Old 02/24/09, 2:00 PM   #65
Believer
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by panny View Post
The best change is probably Imp Stormstrike. Having so much mana means we can actually use Lightning Shield/Static Shock. Since mana is no longer really a consideration hopefully, they'll reduce the cooldown of Shamanistic Rage too.
I'm confused why having more mana from the Imp. Stormstrike change would translate to a greater use of Lightning Shield. Lightning Shield doesn't have a mana cost. Or are you referring to talent points we might be able to invest into Static Shock or Improved Shields in place of talents like Shamanistic/Elemental Focus? Or is my brain as congested as my sinuses, at the moment?

Offline
Old 02/24/09, 2:13 PM   #66
Shabadu
bullets
 
Shabadu's Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Believer View Post
I'm confused why having more mana from the Imp. Stormstrike change would translate to a greater use of Lightning Shield. Lightning Shield doesn't have a mana cost. Or are you referring to talent points we might be able to invest into Static Shock or Improved Shields in place of talents like Shamanistic/Elemental Focus? Or is my brain as congested as my sinuses, at the moment?
Panny pvps.

United States Offline
Old 02/24/09, 2:13 PM   #67
Harrygoz
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Bloodhoof
Originally Posted by Believer View Post
I'm confused why having more mana from the Imp. Stormstrike change would translate to a greater use of Lightning Shield. Lightning Shield doesn't have a mana cost. Or are you referring to talent points we might be able to invest into Static Shock or Improved Shields in place of talents like Shamanistic/Elemental Focus? Or is my brain as congested as my sinuses, at the moment?
I took it to mean in a pvp setting where enhance is forced to use Water shield due to mana concerns

Offline
Old 02/24/09, 2:14 PM   #68
tarrick
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Shaman
 
Lightning's Blade
Originally Posted by Believer View Post
I'm confused why having more mana from the Imp. Stormstrike change would translate to a greater use of Lightning Shield. Lightning Shield doesn't have a mana cost. Or are you referring to talent points we might be able to invest into Static Shock or Improved Shields in place of talents like Shamanistic/Elemental Focus? Or is my brain as congested as my sinuses, at the moment?
Lightning Shield has an indirect mana cost in that you can't use Water Shield at the same time. Assuming that you always keep a shield up, having Lightning Shield up means you lose 100 mp5 and the orb procs. In an arena or extended PvP scenario, an Enhancement Shaman can easily run out of mana because Shamanistic Rage is usually reserved for reducing a damage burst rather than mana return.

Offline
Old 02/24/09, 2:24 PM   #69
Chriske
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by Believer View Post
I'm confused why having more mana from the Imp. Stormstrike change would translate to a greater use of Lightning Shield. Lightning Shield doesn't have a mana cost. Or are you referring to talent points we might be able to invest into Static Shock or Improved Shields in place of talents like Shamanistic/Elemental Focus? Or is my brain as congested as my sinuses, at the moment?
The cost of Lightning Shield is irrelevant. The point is that the MP5 benifit from Imp. Stormstrike will account for the loss of MP5 from Water Shield.

In this case the "Greater use" of Lightning Shield refers to non-Raid situations.

Offline
Old 02/24/09, 2:25 PM   #70
vesicular
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Gorgonnash
I think it's obvious they're not intending ISS to be a raid talent. I think what they intend is everyone specing Enh to be using LS and not WS. With the new ISS that means that any non-raider (anyone leveling, in heroics or PvP) will be able to use LS with Static Shock like Blizz expects us to do.

Offline
Old 02/24/09, 2:57 PM   #71
Apocalypze
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Anub'arak
* Stormstrike charges have been increased by 2, and cooldown reduced by 2 sec.

First time poster here, so any criticism on my post is welcome. I think a fix to this would be to give us 6 charges of SS instead of 4, allowing us to skip it in our priority rotation. This would in turn cause for us to spend more mana (and do more damage) by using ES/MW_LB/Magma Totem whenever they are available. Imp SS would fill the dip in mana this would create. This would be a significant buff to Enh imo.

While writing this and making sure I checked up on the facts, it appears that the up time of SS has been reduced to 10s. For my above suggestion to be effective, it would more than likely need to maintain a 12s up time, either by talent or glyph.

Blizzard struggles at their own game

Offline
Old 02/24/09, 3:04 PM   #72
Malan
Mike Tyson
 
Malan's Avatar
 
Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Apocalypze View Post
I think a fix to this would be to give us 6 charges of SS instead of 4, allowing us to skip it in our priority rotation.
A fix? A fix to what? What are you talking about?

United States Offline
Old 02/24/09, 3:17 PM   #73
rava
sparks keep me warm
 
rava's Avatar
 
rava
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
I'm stupid and didn't notice it, but Savage Combat and Blood Frenzy were buffed to 4% physical so we should be seeing a ~1% dps increase.

Son, to me a robot's just a garbage can with sparks comin' out it.

Offline
Old 02/24/09, 3:45 PM   #74
Sphendule1001
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Jaedenar
Originally Posted by Apocalypze View Post
* Stormstrike charges have been increased by 2, and cooldown reduced by 2 sec.

First time poster here, so any criticism on my post is welcome. I think a fix to this would be to give us 6 charges of SS instead of 4, allowing us to skip it in our priority rotation. This would in turn cause for us to spend more mana (and do more damage) by using ES/MW_LB/Magma Totem whenever they are available. Imp SS would fill the dip in mana this would create. This would be a significant buff to Enh imo.

While writing this and making sure I checked up on the facts, it appears that the up time of SS has been reduced to 10s. For my above suggestion to be effective, it would more than likely need to maintain a 12s up time, either by talent or glyph.

Blizzard struggles at their own game
A couple of things to note:

1.) SS gives us an instant attack for 2 more chances at MW procs and deals decent damage, so there's no reason to still skip it even if your proposed changes were taken.

2.) Considering that the patch notes imply that the old Imp SS has been rolled into base SS, yet on the PTR people are reporting that only the duration has been reduced, I'm inclined to believe that they were planning on reducing the duration in addition to the +2 charges and -2s CD. It's not like lowered duration, given that we spam it when it's up, is going to reduce our damage significantly. The only case where it might be a dps loss is if we get a MW5 proc near the end of the SS CD, but this would decrease our dps only slightly because of the low proc chance of Static Shock.

3.) As has been mentioned earlier, by taking the new Imp SS, we don't need to take Elemental and/or Shamanistic Focus to handle our mana management (this is mostly for 10-mans where you aren't as guaranteed to have replenishment or JoW; PvPers might still want them, though).

Offline
Old 02/24/09, 4:12 PM   #75
jonnaei
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Aerie Peak
Originally Posted by Apocalypze View Post
* Stormstrike charges have been increased by 2, and cooldown reduced by 2 sec.

First time poster here, so any criticism on my post is welcome. I think a fix to this would be to give us 6 charges of SS instead of 4, allowing us to skip it in our priority rotation. This would in turn cause for us to spend more mana (and do more damage) by using ES/MW_LB/Magma Totem whenever they are available. Imp SS would fill the dip in mana this would create. This would be a significant buff to Enh imo.

While writing this and making sure I checked up on the facts, it appears that the up time of SS has been reduced to 10s. For my above suggestion to be effective, it would more than likely need to maintain a 12s up time, either by talent or glyph.

Blizzard struggles at their own game
At present 4 SS charges are almost never used up before SS is off of cooldown, so I don't see what you intend to "fix" with adding more charges. Also, Why do you want to skip SS in priority rotation? At present, I already have holes in my rotation when all my cooldowns are running and I've got fully refreshed Magma totem and LS.

I don't understand what problem you're proposing to fix here...

Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Shamans

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[Enhancement] Trinket Discussion Mengus Shamans 312 03/01/10 6:28 PM
[Shaman] PvP + Enhancement = ? Shinanigans Player vs. Player 894 03/11/09 9:41 AM
[Shaman] Enhancement DPS Ilmater Class Mechanics 37 07/04/08 10:31 AM
Enhancement Shaman AEP Mod Mordekhuul User Interface and AddOns 1 09/30/07 8:39 PM
Enhancement DPS Spreadsheet Silverspring The Dung Heap 2 06/15/07 11:04 PM