Hey there everyone. A slight change of topic, but still on the concept of Enhancement Changes in 3.1, an acquaintance of mine has been claiming that MW is no longer a PPM, rather a standard proc rate since 3.1. Apparently, this has something to do with the T8 4pc bonus. Whether the 4pc bonus changes the proc rate to a standard rate, he's unsure of, but he claims that this is something well known by top end Shaman.

Now, if what he said were true, it could greatly enhance the value of haste. He is claiming that this is a well known fact among the top Enhshaman in the world, and if that were true, i'm sure I could find some info on it here. So far, I have been unable too.

Now before I go back to him and claim that he's simply talking shit based on anecdotal evidence, I figured i'd give him the benefit of the doubt and make a post, simply asking the answer, as I was unable to find it myself. Is MW still a PPM, is it no longer a PPM at all, or does is it given a set chance to proc vs a PPM once you get the 4pc T8 bonus?

Slight dps increase, with the added bonus of not having to drop a magma totem every few seconds. Drop it when trinkets/berserk proc, it seems to take a snapshot of your AP when summoning similar to DK gargoyle. Mine does around 900-1000 dps, compared to Magma 700ish.

If x is set at say 6 ppm, that means that if a weapon swings 30 times a minute 6 out of those 30 swings should proc x. If a weapon swings 60 times a minute, 6 out of those weapon swings will still proc x. You have a 20% chance to proc x on the first weapon and a 10% chance to proc x on the second weapon. A ppm system is not confined to the allotted ppm but instead assigns a % chance for you to proc x based on weapon speed. If you were to spam instants the first weapon (20% chance) would have many more procs within a minute than the second weapon (10%), but the PPM remains equal. Just because an additive 20% chance is added via the set bonus does not mean that the system for how maelstrom weapons proc is changed as well.

It would make a lot more sense if the 20% is added on after the % chance for maelstrom weapon to proc is determined but if the PPM is increased by 20% instead then it would be much less of a dps increase.

The last I heard, Maelstrom Weapon was observed at approximately 1 ppm per talent point -- before any haste effects. An unhasted 2.6 speed speed weapon strikes 23 times per minute so with 5/5 points spent in the talent this gives each hit a 5/23 chance to add a stack to Maelstrom. This is one reason why a slow weapon is better: it grants a higher chance to proc per hit for Stormstrike, Windfury, and Lava Lash. This is also a factor in the benefit of haste: you have more hits each giving the same chance to proc additional stacks.

If this model is correct, then the 4 piece bonus modifies the chance each hit has to proc the effect. With 2.6 speed weapons this would be (6/5) * (5/23) = 6/23 chance per hit.

Edit: I stand corrected, multiply all my proc chances by 2. Apologies!

Hmmm, it would depend on how exactly the 20% increased chance to proc effects the % based off PPM. I am aware of how PPM mechanics work, but from my interpretation of the new set bonus' mechanics, it would simply increase proc rate by 20% of it's current PPM. For example, if MW had a set 10 PPM, with the new set bonus, it would set it to a 12 PPM, and determine a new % proc rate based on the now 12 PPM. If this is the case, haste is no more beneficial then it is without the set bonus.

For some reason, this person I was speaking with is at the understanding that with that set bonus, haste is the best stat for us, as it increases the proc rate on the now set in stone percent chance to proc MW. I'm 99.9% sure he's mistaken, but once again, decided to check my facts before I "politely" point out his mistake.

If i'm mistaken, let me know, but wouldn't gaining haste also reduce the chance to proc MW per swing, while still keeping the same PPM? Or does it simply keep the PPM based on unmodified weapon speed, and give more chances to proc due to the extra haste?

You are mistaken. PPM mechanics are based on unmodified weapon speed.

Any further update on the Bloodlust bug that's preventing you poor hordies from bloodlusting your wolves on second outing in a fight?

I note there is a thread at World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> GC: Why the giant stealth shaman nerf? where the behaviour is noted and contains the classic quote from our own Rouncer that deserves to be a sig tag.

According to my recounts and others, Fire Elemental Totem does approximately 1300-1400 dps while it is up.

This is much, much more than a slight increase.

Wow Web Stats

a WWS parse from a random ignis kill of mine.

Do note that it did only 86k damage to the boss and 22k to the constructs. But indeed it has gotten a nice upgrade. Even so much that personally for hardmode training I have chosen to use Fire Elemental glyph as third major one just to make sure that its available for every hardmode try that it is relevant to have the elevated damage.

Bit offtopic but according to the Q&A session developers are looking for ways to use the elemental while having any other fire totem up. Anyone else concerned that this might bring up some shaman stacking to hardmodes?

Why not, i think it would be similar to a Death Knights Army of Ghouls, which they can pop in addition to their normal pet as well.

from current known gear and the assumption that the alg 25 helm gains 100 AP to match its ilvl, chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner (with the alg 25 trinket instead of one of the dark matters (only inserted a second as a placeholder AP based trinket) would be BiS

So the difference between t8.5 helm and alg one would be: 24 agi 26 sta 8 int -54 haste 60 hit - 5crit 8 AP
Diff between Dark Matter and Comet's Trail: 18 AP and 726 haste instead of 615 crit on proc


When using a 20% uptime (1 proc every 50sec) for both trinkets they equal 615/5=123 crit, 726/5=145 haste

making the end result of that gear change (from displayed stats) 24(26.4 after bok) agi 26(28.6 after bok) sta 8(8.8 BoKed) int 91 haste 60 hit 118 crit 26(add 26.4*1.1 from agi, 8.8*1.4 from int= 39.38) AP (total of 71.91 AP after Unleashed rage)

Unbased assumptions are bad. We make plenty of assumptions in our understanding of combat mechanics because we can't know to absolute truth how some of the server side effects are implemented. He stated up front exactly what the basis for his assumption was, so I don't see what the problem is. (And honestly, his post makes more of a useful point than yours just did)

What are you using to compare this to other gear sets? There seems to be very little in the way of BiS theorycrafting for enhancement. Granted, "best" is going to be very dependent on the fight, but maybe we should spin up a thread similar to Best Possible DPS in Shandaras WotLK Spreadsheet.

Either way I'm primarily asking because, from my experience with rawr/enhsim, it's not really obvious me to that 4 pc T8.5 bonus is part of the BiS gear set. Mostly that's based on the EP I get with my own gear, but I'll check some more tonight.

Honestly, I had no clue what his point is/was with that post which is why I asked for elaboration.

If all he is trying to say is that if they add 100 AP to Algalon's helm it becomes BiS, then what he has done is made a really confusing useless post. It is an ilevel 239 from the current hardest end-boss so I expect it to end up being at least decent but what if instead of adding 100 AP they decide to stick another 40 hit rating on it instead. Then it has enough stats to match it's ilevel but it is a complete piece of garbage without designing an entire set around dealing with all that extra hit.

I responded that way on the assumption that there was something more then just that contained in all that math but if that really is all he meant to post then I should have stuck to my initial inclination and just reported it as a useless post.


By the way just did some napkin math and according to what I can determine, Boundless Gaze is missing 75 AP not 100. Meaning that if they did just add it on in straight AP it would still end up being a toss-up between that helm or using the Shoulders of Misfortune for the one offset piece.

my bad for not double checking the 100 AP value i read elsewhere, with that value in mind i atempted to make a set which would make the best use of the hitrating.

To the listing of different items for each slot: there was a topic like that, but it derailed and got closed.

Use EP values, that is what they really are for anyway. They let you evaluate pieces without having to show +X Crit and -Y Agi and a whole string of values that makes it hard to determine what is really being demonstrated.

To be more precise about the "toss-up"

With current stats and my latest EP values I have Algalon's helm at 765 when right at the spell hit cap. T8.5 Helm is running 815 so it has a 50 EP deficit. Algalon's helm appears to be ~75 AP light in regards to it's itembudget meaning it will be roughly +25 EP over T8.5 if they just add pure AP. Shoulders of Misfortune are ~20 EP better then T8.5 which is why I said it is a toss-up at least until they re-itemize the helm.

Just to be completely clear Algalon's Helm could be more then 75 AP light since I couldn't find any information regarding the ilevel difference between a blue socket and a red socket although I doubt there is a 25 AP difference between them. Even with all that I still think it is premature to worry about the item until it gets reitemized. It's already bad for Hunters since they don't want as much hit as we do so it basically appears to be designed specifically for us. So if you get an opportunity, snag one and bank it until they get around to fixing it's values.

I haven't really started simming out specific sets yet to find the absolute best overall combination of gear since I am still missing many possible upgrades so my options for a perfectly defined set are still limited to the gear that I have available.

I've just been keeping an up to date lootrank list in order to evaluate drops and then regemming around the upgrades.

This is my most recent lootrank

Loot Rank for WotLK

I keep two lootranks on my desktop while raiding for evaluating drops. That one and one with hit set to 2.0 to represent gear up to the spell hit cap.

It's like an orcish shaman's christmas.

Rogues get to use axes and we get an expertise bonus from using fists as well as axes.

Also get another ~500 hitpoints in the base health pool and SR drops to a 1 minute cooldown. Ghost Wolf can also only be snared to JoJ speeds which has some potential.


MMO-Champion BlueTracker - PTR Patch 3.2.0 Notes

Now if only they made fast (OH) weapons work well for shamans so we aren't pigeonholed into niche weapons.

Other major bonuses of note:

Shamanistic Rage reduced to 1minute but returns 15% mana instead of 30% (Survivability increase all around while still returning the same net mana overall)
Wolves will now gain a proportional (1:1 basically) amount of Hit % and Expertise for their hit table.
Totems can't be targeted by macros or scripts.
Health increased by 7%.

And apparently orcs continue to be the master race.

Was there ever any doubt?

What I am curious about is how that expertise pet aspect will translate to PvP. Dodge cap in PvE being 6.5% but people have much more then that. Will being over the appropriate hit cap also proportially increase the pets expertise levels? Ooo fun, new things to think about how to properly test!

The Rogue news, coupled with this:

This might be a significant boost for DWing DK's.

These two changes lead me to believe we'll have a much healthier menu of slow one-handed weapons in 3.2, both fists and axes.