The reason that is so much higher then the others is because it only applies to dodge. Expertise is dodge and parry. Giving just a dodge reduction would be a huge PvE boost with a minor PvP one while giving expertise makes it work equally well in both circumstances.

Considering we all run around with about 800 agi making 1% equal to 8 agi and 1 expertise is equal to 8.129 expertise rating I think it will end up being 1/2/3 expertise.

I've posted about it in 2 of the threads on the damage dealing forums and since GC states he reads all the threads I don't think it warrants making a separate thread.

Someone should write up a nice summary with proper testing and just plan on updating the testing for every PTR patch until there is a Blue response. Once there is a blue response let it die and stop worrying about it until the release is imminent if there has been no fix.

Edit: Search failed me. Will try to be constructive in this post.

Yah thanks, that hasn't been pasted here like 4 or 5 times already.

Then how much expertise are we getting per talent point? All I saw in that post was that they are changing the agility granted in the talent to give us expertise.

The fact that they will implent the talent as granting us expertise (1 expertise = .25% parry/dodge redux) is irrelevant, the point was that we don't know how much the talent will grant.

The precedent for expertise talents is 2/4/6 (rogue/paladin/dk) or 5/10 (druid/warrior).

I don't think 2/4/6 would be horrible for them to give us.

If the UR ends up being 1/2/3 expertise and the SS cd is changed to 8 seconds I'd be a pretty happy camper. The only real unkown I'm concerned about now is the mana regen changes. I sure hope speccing 2/2 ISS isn't necessary for pve. I'd really like the two talents from UR and two for ISS to use somewhere else.

They should replace the mana regen on proc with health regen on proc. Then you have a good PvP ability! (jokes)

In all seriousness, if ISS is looking like its going to fullfil our mana regen requirements some sort of additional PvP utility at the expense of the mana regen might be warranted. I think it wouldn't hurt if we brainstormed some decent suggestions to post on the PTR forums.

Like quoted above a % increase to damage dealt does seem a bit strange coupled with a damage reducing ability. Of course this comes down to individual opinion more than anything else but again if we can get some decent ideas to post we should.

Maybe instead of a flat damage % increase it could be a crit % buff over the duration, like say +25% crit or something along those lines.

And in regards to the expertise on UR I love the idea as much as the next shaman rocking the expertise gems (and trinket) but to be honest I never thought we really needed it as a DPS component. Shamans complain about having to stack exp gems and enchants but our dmg certainly sees the benefits. Our dmg is fine having to stack expertise gems to reach the cap, so realistically won't getting 3 or even 6 talented expertise mean they'll have to nerf our damage elsewhere to compensate?

Has anybody asked for clarification on the forums about the SS change to 10sec with 10sec CD, it does conflict with the patch note change and may in fact be a bug. I can't post on WoW forums from work because I don't have my authenticator on me otherwise I would.

[BUG] Stormstrike | PTR | WoW Blue Tracker | World of Raids

"In the patch notes it says that the cooldown has been decreased by 2 seconds. However the ingame cooldown is still at 10 seconds instead of 8"

Dresorull, "Not all class changes are in this current build, but I will pass this on to make sure it gets checked. Thanks for the report."

Mana regen when you hit something and health regen when something hits you.

In all seriousness Imp SS is a much more elegent solution to dealing with our mana regen then SR and that was why me and Malan brought it up during the Alpha/Beta. Having our main defensive ability tied to our mana regen mechanic just doesn't really make much sense.

But if Imp SS is handling mana then what is the point of SR? Sure it's a ton of damage reduction but when raiding you shouldn't be getting hit anyway so then it becomes a point that would better be spent elsewhere.

Which is why a nice low percent burst damage boost (10%) makes the most sense. Especially since they can adjust for the dps by simply lowering the SS glyph from 8% to 5% (which also brings it back into line with most of the other glyphs at the same time and gives us more options to play with). The 10% damage boost means no raiding shaman would skip the talent and it is already mandatory for PvP so then it works and fits well in the tree. I added the notion of stun removal (without immunity) since that would seem to help the most since that would give us a chance to summon the wolves when stunned and GCD removal to tie it all together.

Whether the developers agree with that logic or not is the real question but since I posted it in a thread pretty much right after Ghostcrawler I am sure they at least saw the concept even if they don't agree with it.

I would guess they'd sooner change ISS than SR if they realize having both the way they are now is redundant.

I'd bet money if they do change it they'll make it a requirement for MW if it became something PvErs could overlook. 41 talents aren't supposed to be optional.

That being said the prospect of a purely PvP oriented SR doesn't make me cringe if ISS can provide enough mana and any additional PvP utility they add is actually useful. Of course I'd prefer some sort of PvE usefulness to it as well.

At first I was going to say I didn't like this idea for the same reason I don't like the current SR. It's mostly an either/or spell. Meaning, you're either using it for mana regen *or* dmg reduction, but very rarely do you ever use it for both at the same time. I've never been a big fan of these types of spells. I'd say Blizz isn't either, but we've seen them do this with other spells as well (Dispersion for shadow priests comes to mind).

But as far as PvP is concerned your idea does make a bit of sense for both uses. Perhaps I've always just had a soft spot for suicide specs, but charging into someone with this popped could be very deadly for your enemy.

But for PvE I still see it as mostly an either/or type spell. Something has to be done with it though because Imp SS totally removes the need for SR (and vice versa) in the tests I've done on PTR. Though I'd say Imp SS is the better talent from an overall game perspective because it's applicable to more styles of play (pvp, heroics, leveling) than SR is.

You could argue 1/2/3% Agi was under budget to begin with. DKs get Abomination's Might, which increases Strength by 1/2%, and they get 2 AP per Strength and some Parry, which is more than Shamen get.

I dont think 2/4/6 Expertise is too much to ask, seeing as how little we have on our gear.

IMHO we need 1 Stamina give us 0.33 AP... like Surv hunters get

Except that the developers don't look at it like "they get 2AP per strength". They look at it purely in terms of ilevel budgeting. Sure they make balance choices based on those decisions but 1/2/3% Agi is equal to 1/2/3 Expertise which is equal to 1/2% strength. Which is probably why Ghostcrawler was so easy to convince to switch it to expertise since they have an equal ilevel value budget.

I would be absolutely floored if they gave us 2/4/6 expertise since it would imply that we need more of an ilevel budget on that talent, then the alternatives, since our dps was way too low and we needed a boost. Has anyone suddenly dropped to tank level dps?

By asking for more, you are acting like a child who was just given a Barbie doll to play with then you screamed that you wanted Malibu Barbie and when you were given that you start throwing a tantrum because it isn't the Malibu Barbie with the special yellow hat.

and the point of that would be what? We need more stamina, not more AP. Why would you think that would warranted especially in light of Ghostcrawler's comment that our dps may end up too high and may require a nerf?

World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> [Updated] 3.1.0 PTR Patch Notes

• Unleashed Rage: Reduced to 3 points, down from 5. Each point now also increases your total Expertise by 3/6/9%.

Even better than my optimal hopes. Someone mentioned it was because of lack of expertise on mail.
(the % being a tooltip thing, they mean points)

Ugh wait, percentage of Expertise? Not a good thing. I'm hoping that's a typo from the Euro forum.

Same. If it turns out to be just 9%, that's just barely one extra gem slot with expertise in it.

I hope it isnt a % because if exp capped you would get 9% from 27 exp.
If it was % of exp rating it would be nice, but id rather see it as +9 exp and not rating.

If it is a % it is just 17 rating points. Great I get one gem? Hell 3% agility is better than THAT. With 3% agility I would get around 30 agility buffed. One gem slot is just 16 agility.

Now if it is 9 POINTS - that is amazing. I can't imagine it being that. I was hoping for 6. 9 would be just . . . that would be around 75ish rating. I am not holding my breath that the 9 (Even if it is straight 9) isn't going to change down.

If its true its means (214/109*100) ~ 196 exp rate cap. (17.6 gains if u have 197exp u gain 17 exp because of cap ) and its only one gem slot. %3 agi is superior then if u got 750 agi (750*1.03)772 its gives 22 agi

IF they give 9 exp. rate it must be super. (9*8,23) ~ 74 exp. rate...

I think its not typo error.