Cyriss

Hello everyone not sure if this is the right thread to post this in but anyway. I've been looking at videos of Uldar raids and I have been seeing in more then one of the fights there has been a lot of raid wide spike damage. I have been looking to gem and gear more haste rating to be ready for that. My goal is 600 haste rating base with at least Totem of Wrath and Moonkin Aura to give me last bit of the haste to get to 830 haste rating to be at a 2.00 chain heal caste. I also relize I need to find a fine line between that haste rating and mana regen. Has anyone done anything to find that fine line between those 2 stats.

I know its a little hard to get some acurate info most of the fights are either to short or not enough raid damage to really find out. Any help would be nice.

 

Spenda

Are you looking for an equation that shows time to OOM with constant spam of CH?

Something like:

Assuming mana cost of CH after 5% reduction at level 80: 794 mana

CH casts per 5 seconds = (2.5 seconds per cast / 5 seconds) * Raid buffed haste percentage
MP5 cost of CH spam = 794 * (CH casts per 5 seconds)

Starting mana + (Raid buffed MP5 / 5) * t - (MP5 cost of CH spam / 5) * t = Remaining mana(t)

Using this formula you can see that CH spam is maintainable indefinitely as long as MP5 cost of CH spam <= Raid Buffed MP5. When MP5 cost of CH spam > Raid Buffed MP5 time to OOM can be determined by solving for t when Remaining mana(t) = 0. Graphing this would show a clear relationship between the amount required Raid Buffed MP5 to sustain CH spam would increase linearly with haste percentage.

Your question was about the break even point. That would depend on the time of a particular fight, and can be solved by plugging the anticipated time of the fight into t, and setting Remaining mana(t) to 0. You would then be left with an equation the only unknowns being Raid buffed MP5 and MP5 cost of CH spam. This would allow you to solve for the required MP5 to sustain whatever arbitrarily hasted CH over the length of a given fight.

Keep in mind this is never going to be exact. The kind of fights that would necessitate CH spam are likely to have enough environmental damage to significantly increase mana regen from water shield procs. This at the same time lowers mana expenditure of CH when GCDs are used to refresh water shield. Heavy environmental damage also likely requires movement, which further extends time to OOM due to breaks in casting. The other thing that isn't exact is that while mana-tide can be assumed to provide a particular MP5, its contribution is also based on the length of the fight.

 

Daidalos

Also you can view time till OOM spamming in my spreadsheet with various levels of haste and raid buffs ( I do need to fix how haste% stacks with haste rating but the the results won't be that drastically diff)

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Kromjin

I currently have the normal
But I was thinking about perhaps putting a CH in there instead to proc Tidal Waves for the follow up heal. With just totems CH and HW crit for ~9k and ~13k, respectively. Just curious if anyone would have math to follow it up. I personally would only evaluate it for the first two GCD's as after that point the individual should be out of the danger zone. At work, so haven't had a chance to test my personal numbers with haste.

 

Pitbuller

With Tidal force you will get almoust 100% crit instant healing wave. This will proc Ancestral awake and it heal tank if needed.

Edit: If you need special macro for brainless melee then make another macro. Big single target panic button is still needed.

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

 

Grandaddy

I took Healing Wave out of my NS macro because instant crit CH is situationally useful and it's only one extra step. Instant CH on a whirlwinding trash pack or a bad melee ice block on KT can be a lifesaver (not to mention useless meter padding on Gluth!). If you have Healing Wave already tied to it, you're limiting one of your best oh-shit tools to only a tank-saving option. There are plenty of other cooldowns racing towards a tank in that situation, but not many other 20k+ group heals after a bad aoe.

 

Altsobadoli

NS HW is still very important for many situations, especially MT healing. There should be a way to make it so that when you press your macro button it casts NS + TF + HW, and when you hold shift with your macro it will cast NS + TF + CH. You could also have two macros tied to two buttons, of course.

In BC I had NS bound exclusively with CH in my macro, but now both CH and HW NS macros are nice to have.

 

PDXMarcos

I don't have the ability to test it at work, but I think the following macro should default to cast a NS and Chain Heal and when you hold control down it will cast HW.

Edit: Fixed the bugs in the macro after some testing, it works properly now.

 

Sixthy

Why would you take HW out instead of just making another that incorporated CH and having both at the ready for various situations? (Or you know - use a modifier).

 

Sixthy

There's spike damage but it's all been manageable. Mana hasn't been too much of an issue with exception of Kologarn (which next time won't be nearly as much of a mana burden), hard mode Decon (huge raid damage - that's when I'll use my CH spam set over my current single target set - speaking of single target, yeah, it's about as useful as you can be in most of the fights in Ulduar so far - get used to it), and hard mode council - but with hard mode council your mana is being taxed on the tanks. If people play properly there isn't a lot of raid spike damage going around.

 

Zerlu

We clear Naxx easily each week, and Sarth even moreso, with the healers DPSing about half the time. There are 3 of us, and to be frank its unbelievably boring. My major question is if it is possible to 2 heal all of naxx without full 10 man gear? Our only concerns are with 4H really, as everything is grotesquely easy, and Saph/KT are primary gear issues as far as keeping dps up.

My primary concern on 4H is the person who covers the Baron and Thane groups. Is it even possible to heal them both without getting cooked by meteors or the auras?

If 10 man healing isn't on topic here then just let me know.

 

Spenda

Our guild never tried more than 2 healers in Naxx10, and were able to full clear it in mostly blues. I'd wager that if someone was so inclined it could probably be single healed in reasonable gear.

 

• Philondra

With a 2-healer setup for 10 man 4H, your best bet is to stack everyone except one tank and the two people in back on Thane and blow heroism as soon as Thane is in position. I've tried many different ways to heal it, but had the most success by putting ES on the Thane tank before the pull, putting healing stream down for the Thane DPS, and staying with the Baron tank. Baron is much more of a threat than Thane, and your DPS should be high enough to kill Thane before marks become an issue. This is one of the few fights where Healing Stream is very effective, as it essentially negates the meteor+mark damage.

Edit: Depending on your raid composition, have your ret paladin and/or shadow priest with the Thane DPS rather than in back so that Divine Storm/Vampiric Embrace can provide some supplementary healing.

 

Kaytikat

Or for an alternative approach that's less risky and dependent upon your dps being high enough to kill quickly: do it exactly the same as on 25 man. Your two healers stand at max range to the melee mobs, one on either side of the platform and healing one ranged and one melee tank each. Get the ranged tanks to run across the middle of the platform as they change so they can receive heals from both healers during the switch. Simple and controlled.

As for whether Naxx can be solo healed - it can! My guild master (a holy paladin) was solo healing it several months ago (so he wasn't even in BiS gear at the time), albeit with a dps-spec 2nd healer helping out for 4HM (range limitations make that fight practically impossible to solo heal).

 

Sixthy

Can now add Hodir to the raid damage fight list - just killed the new version on 25 and was a blast. They changed Frozen Blows to do 3k raid dps (55 yard range) for 15 seconds. Pretty big damage. Mimiron is also a great healing fight.

 

Kindralas

Replies to a few different things:

I generally don't use NS much anymore anyway because healing requirements are generally so low. But when I do, I don't have a macro for it, mostly because I use Clique. It's easier, at least for me, to just fire NS and then another heal, even while moving. You can accomplish a similar effect with simple mouseover macros (/cast [target=mouseover] Healing Wave).

As for single healing Naxx, I think it would be possible save for fights like Four Horseman and Sapphiron where people are just so spread out. At that point the issue isn't healing throughput, but having the ability to heal everyone at once. Chain Heal's pretty good for that in a lot of circumstances, but it's really poor at raid healing when you aren't getting many bounces.

 

Grandaddy

There's nothing wrong with a modifier or using two separate macros. My point was just that there's more to NS than HW.

 

Minrad

Has anyone successfully healed a 10+3 drake sartharion with 2 healers? (one of them, of course, being a resto shaman) I skimmed through the first page and saw some discussion about 25 man, but none about 10.

I was on the drake tanks with a priest on the sarth tank, and even with him throwing a spare coh, pom, etc I was struggling to keep everyone alive in the transition from first drake, second drake and first drake both up, second drake. What usually got me was when the tank would get breathed on for 11k twice in a row due to having two drakes up, and all the while the add tank was taking something of a beating with no enraged blazes and the dps is slowly losing health from adds/aoe damage and I was just never able to play catch up on everyone once we passed a certain point. We had a paladin for judgement of light but it alone was not enough to help keep everyone alive. The thing that usually got me was needing to move for waves or void zones; if the tank was down 20k all I can do is throw a piddling riptide on him after I've blown NS, which was usually pretty early. God forbid if the add tank got that low as well.

Our DPS was struggling somewhat but I don't think it was the biggest factor; we would have the first drake down by about the same time our usual 25+3 drake group kills him, but it was just the matter that all our DPS or else a tank would be dead by that time as well.

I didn't think to try having the priest and I swapping jobs (we have a DK tank for sarth so of course he can mitigate breaths all day long and never die) but it was looking very futile on my end. I figure the priest might have a better time healing the tanks (where he can spare a GS on the 2 drakes up transition) and the raid from the drake tank position, where he can better place his coh, pom, and drop pw:s, renew, etc when he needs to move during lava waves. He can also fade off the adds if a spare one starts beating on him, while I get a one-shot war stomp. (which is to say I had it on cooldown every attempt)

We did try 3 healers but we ended up with 3 drakes up at one point, which was pretty comical, so I don't think we're gonna manage that with the dps we currently have.

 

Sixthy

Yeah, I 2 healed it with a priest in early December in a mixture of 25 / 10 / SW gear. It's actually easier than 3 healing it (which was our first kill - me, priest, pally) just because the DPS helps end the rough phases quicker. Even on our first kill through the priest primarily just dps'd and added something like 300k healing the entire fight, so 2 healers is the way to go, really.

I've duo healed it with a pally and a priest. Haven't done it with a druid yet but it wouldn't be much different.

I have a fraps of a 10 man 3 drake kill here that I'm uploading to youtube for you so you can see if I'm doing anything different. I believe this was our 2nd kill, so Dec 9th - duo healing with a priest. I'll post the link when it's done uploading.

EDIT:

Here you go: YouTube - Vis Maior - 10 Man 3 Drake (Resto Shaman POV)

Watch in HD. No music or anything. Just some fraps footage I hadn't deleted yet, rendered real quick and tossed it up on YouTube.

 

Minrad

The biggest difference I'm gleaning from this is seeing how slow we were killing Tenebron. (You kill him almost as soon as the adds pop, mean while I am having to heal the tank through two drakes + the add tank with a ton of whelps for a very long period) In addition, I generally zoom my camera pretty far out to see waves easier, but I think I'll be better off zooming in to control chain heal better, which will probably make things a bit easier on me rather than just staring at Grid and avoiding void zones. Thanks for the video.

 

MatsT

The key is that when the Twilight Torment goes up, you're going to go down very soon. The +100% fire dmg, +75% fire dmg and -25% hp makes it impossible to substain the fight for long periods. With 3 healers, you can do it for a short while unless you get unlucky with lava strikes. With 2 healers, i don't think you can keep it up longer than 10-15 seconds. The advantage to 2 healers is your dps gets so much better. With 3 healers, you might have Shadron at 50% when Twilight Torment pops up. You pop some cooldowns, spamheal, and keep dpsing and you can get through it. With 2 healers, Shadron would have been at 15% instead of 50, so you only need to keep it up for a few seconds, and an offspecc tranquility or divine guardian can help with that.

If you're running 2 healers but still have Shadron at 50% when Twilight Torment goes up, you have a dps problem. You're not gonna be able to keep the raid up for long enough. Dropping a dps for another healer isn't really gonna help either in that situation since you will now have Shadron at 80% instead. You just need need your dpsers to get better or replace them.

 

Krim

Why did you include /stopcasting into that macro? I find the normal:

does the /stopcasting do anything special?

 

• Nagisamuro

When you hit your NS+BigHeal macro you typically need it to go off NAO!, so the /stopcasting line cancels any cast you may already be in the middle of. Otherwise, if you just started a Chain Heal and you have ~2 seconds left on the cast, the macro wouldn't fire, you're waiting til the Chain Heal finishes, and the person needing the big heal is already dead.

 

KraxisSingular

Wouldn't it be better to just add it before any /cast lines? I mean you have to current cast going, then try to cast NS or TF, won't happen of course, then the /stopcasting stops the current cast and lets you cast the second non-GCD ability and the new cast.

I think it is down to the old /stopcasting macros that aren't needed any longer.

 

• Nagisamuro

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're objecting to, but the macro in post #33 looks fine to me - a single /stopcasting at the start of the macro, followed by /cast lines for NS, TF, and the heal spell.

(I agree that the macro in post #29 is poor, I think that's probably what you are referring to...)