I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're objecting to, but the macro in post #33 looks fine to me - a single /stopcasting at the start of the macro, followed by /cast lines for NS, TF, and the heal spell.
(I agree that the macro in post #29 is poor, I think that's probably what you are referring to...)
Ah... wtb more attention to details. Did indeed miss the more optimal macro, so the previous posts came out in a different light. Apologies for any confusion.
If I remember correctly, the /stopcasting placed inside the macro (not at the beginning) is in place to allow you to cast while moving. Without it, if you hit the macro while running you will get a "cannot do that while moving" message. Even though that's the whole idea, your client waits for the server response before you get the buff and can cast the heal. /Stopcasting forces the client to accept the next spell.
Edit: It seems due the testing done following this post that I am remembering incorrectly. Apologies.
If I remember correctly, the /stopcasting placed inside the macro (not at the beginning) is in place to allow you to cast while moving. Without it, if you hit the macro while running you will get a "cannot do that while moving" message. Even though that's the whole idea, your client waits for the server response before you get the buff and can cast the heal. /Stopcasting forces the client to accept the next spell.
I'm going to have to test it then, as my current NS macro needs to be pressed twice if I happen to be moving at the time. If that's truly the purpose and effect, my apologies for calling it "poor".
If I remember correctly, the /stopcasting placed inside the macro (not at the beginning) is in place to allow you to cast while moving. Without it, if you hit the macro while running you will get a "cannot do that while moving" message. Even though that's the whole idea, your client waits for the server response before you get the buff and can cast the heal. /Stopcasting forces the client to accept the next spell.
I tested the following macro while continually running forward:
Yeah, I 2 healed it with a priest in early December in a mixture of 25 / 10 / SW gear. It's actually easier than 3 healing it (which was our first kill - me, priest, pally) just because the DPS helps end the rough phases quicker. Even on our first kill through the priest primarily just dps'd and added something like 300k healing the entire fight, so 2 healers is the way to go, really.
I don't know, I guess it's more of a raid to raid thing. Certainly now I could two heal it no problem, but when learning nothing beats the stability that 3 healers gives you. You can keep the fight going (even with Shad/Vesp up together for long periods) almost indefinitely.
You pay for the whole chair, but you only need the edge.
I don't know, I guess it's more of a raid to raid thing. Certainly now I could two heal it no problem, but when learning nothing beats the stability that 3 healers gives you. You can keep the fight going (even with Shad/Vesp up together for long periods) almost indefinitely.
Sure, I'd agree with that. Our first kill, like I said, was 3 healers - myself, priest, pally - but we were hitting DPS issues (this was Dec 5th, so we weren't exactly in optimal gear yet), so we had the priest dps for the majority of the fight to meet each dps check while the pally and I basically 2 healed it.
The next week we took a melee group back to get their achievement done and just went with 2 healers (the fight from the video) and it was infinitely easier. I've solo healed it once as well because the DPS is just insane - but regardless, learning attempts for almost any situation is usually easier when using more than the required amount of healers. (I'd still say if any group is out there having trouble taking this encounter down and you're using 3 healers to swap over to a 2 healer setup with 5 dps (with proper synergy) and see if it doesn't become easier for you.)
I'm looking for a macro to use with Nature's Swiftness. I want something that will heal my current target, if friendly, and if not it will hit the focus. I've tried several macros like:
/cast [noharm] [target=focus, noharm] Heal Spell
but it will not heal my focus target, just throws an error.
We clear Naxx easily each week, and Sarth even moreso, with the healers DPSing about half the time. There are 3 of us, and to be frank its unbelievably boring. My major question is if it is possible to 2 heal all of naxx without full 10 man gear? Our only concerns are with 4H really, as everything is grotesquely easy, and Saph/KT are primary gear issues as far as keeping dps up.
My primary concern on 4H is the person who covers the Baron and Thane groups. Is it even possible to heal them both without getting cooked by meteors or the auras?
If 10 man healing isn't on topic here then just let me know.
This post is a couple days old, but the other option besides what Philondra said is what I've done in a couple different raid groups who full cleared Naxx10 the first week in, wearing a mix of 70 epics and leveling/heroic blues, maybe an emblem epic here and there. Philondra's strat works fine once you have the gear, but it assumes that you can get Thane down before the first switch, which your DPS may not be able to do when you're first starting out.
For 4H, it assumes you have a DPS shaman (either spec), moonkin, shadow priest, or ret paladin. If you're currently 3-healing and want to drop to 2, it sounds like you'd definitely have at least one of these if you don't already. Stick them on the Baron tank, and they shouldn't even have to change gear--even a ret paladin in full ret gear can usually keep up the Baron tank with just Art of War/Sheath of Light procs. Obviously once Thane's down, the fight's trivial. Sapphiron was the only actual challenge in mostly 70 epics and 80 blues, but totally doable if you're smart about healing. Make sure the other healer knows that your strongest and most efficient healing is going to be on melee plus helping on the MT, so s/he can focus on ranged+healers. If your DPS are used to standing in Blizzards because healing is falling from the sky, remind them that you're 2-healing. As for Kel'Thuzad, the fight is a pushover. It's all about reaction time, not throughput, so dropping a healer won't be a problem unless the healer you drop is the quickest on the draw when it comes to Frost Blasts. As you said, everything else in the zone is easy.
Sapphiron was the only actual challenge in mostly 70 epics and 80 blues, but totally doable if you're smart about healing. Make sure the other healer knows that your strongest and most efficient healing is going to be on melee plus helping on the MT, so s/he can focus on ranged+healers. If your DPS are used to standing in Blizzards because healing is falling from the sky, remind them that you're 2-healing. As for Kel'Thuzad, the fight is a pushover. It's all about reaction time, not throughput, so dropping a healer won't be a problem unless the healer you drop is the quickest on the draw when it comes to Frost Blasts. As you said, everything else in the zone is easy.
Actually Sapphiron is one of those fights where the MT will always be out or range of a CH jump. The nature of his large hitbox makes Cleaves and Tailswipes deadly on melee, and require exact position from their part. This is out of CH jump range.
A similar thing happens on the Sarth+3D drake offtanks. The tank is often (but in this case not always) just out of CH jump range. In both cases targeting your melee instead of your tank will save their lives for sure. While a CH targeted on the tank that doesnt jump would be a waste of the cast time. While it may be important to save the tank, us shaman are a lot more often assigned on Raidhealing, and topping those melee is more important than topping the tank, who should have its own dedicated healer assigned.
Actually Sapphiron is one of those fights where the MT will always be out or range of a CH jump. The nature of his large hitbox makes Cleaves and Tailswipes deadly on melee, and require exact position from their part. This is out of CH jump range.
Yeah, sorry, I wasn't very clear. I didn't mean that we'd be bouncing CH off the tank to hit the melee, but that Earth Shield + the occasional glyphed LHW on the tank is pretty efficient tank healing, and bouncing back and forth between those two things does a pretty good job of handling both tasks. The intent of my statement was that that's two different roles that we can do optimally, but that our efficiency goes way down on raid heals of non-melee and non-tank.
Yeah, sorry, I wasn't very clear. I didn't mean that we'd be bouncing CH off the tank to hit the melee, but that Earth Shield + the occasional glyphed LHW on the tank is pretty efficient tank healing, and bouncing back and forth between those two things does a pretty good job of handling both tasks. The intent of my statement was that that's two different roles that we can do optimally, but that our efficiency goes way down on raid heals of non-melee and non-tank.
I totally agree on that. Especially in the 10 man version any ranged that does not hug up is better of with a sniped LHW than a CH. Heroic version allows for fulltime Chain Heal spam, almost always hitting 2 or 3 targets.
/cast Nature's Swiftness
/cast Tidal Force
/cast Healing Wave
However, I seem to retain the 'selection finger' after I cast it. The heal goes off, so I'm not sure what's happening. Anyone else experience this?
Ok, looked a little more closely and I actually seem to get a free Nature's Swiftness.
I use my macro with myself targeted, and I instantly cast Healing Wave, and have 2 stacks of the Tidal Force buff remaining. My finger is still glowing though, and I can see that I still have the Nature's Swiftness buff too! I click Healing Wave and it again instantly heals me.
Note that this doesn't always occur. Sometimes, it just works as expected. Probably just a bug right now. But a very beneficial one
Am I missing something obvious with macros? I can't seem to get a single press NS macro happening, with the first press only activating NS, not casting the heal as well. With latency and human nervous system I take about 0.3-0.5s to actually get a the NS heal off by spamming button twice ... which can be too long sometimes.
I hadn't had any problems macroing "Tidal Force + Spell" or "TF + Trinket + Spell" so i'd assumed it was built in to Nature's Swiftness (or was a bug that had become a feature :-P) but maybe i'm just writing the macro wrong (/stopcasting /cast NS /cast TF /cast Heal)?
Apologies in advance if this question has already been answered and / or I'm doing something obvious and stupid wrong ....
This post is a couple days old, but the other option besides what Philondra said is what I've done in a couple different raid groups who full cleared Naxx10 the first week in, wearing a mix of 70 epics and leveling/heroic blues, maybe an emblem epic here and there. Philondra's strat works fine once you have the gear, but it assumes that you can get Thane down before the first switch, which your DPS may not be able to do when you're first starting out.
For 4H, it assumes you have a DPS shaman (either spec), moonkin, shadow priest, or ret paladin. If you're currently 3-healing and want to drop to 2, it sounds like you'd definitely have at least one of these if you don't already. Stick them on the Baron tank, and they shouldn't even have to change gear--even a ret paladin in full ret gear can usually keep up the Baron tank with just Art of War/Sheath of Light procs. Obviously once Thane's down, the fight's trivial. Sapphiron was the only actual challenge in mostly 70 epics and 80 blues, but totally doable if you're smart about healing. Make sure the other healer knows that your strongest and most efficient healing is going to be on melee plus helping on the MT, so s/he can focus on ranged+healers. If your DPS are used to standing in Blizzards because healing is falling from the sky, remind them that you're 2-healing. As for Kel'Thuzad, the fight is a pushover. It's all about reaction time, not throughput, so dropping a healer won't be a problem unless the healer you drop is the quickest on the draw when it comes to Frost Blasts. As you said, everything else in the zone is easy.
Currently running with 2 Resto Shamans, and a Disc. priest. Needless to say its overkill. The other resto shaman always wants to go Enh. anyways, sounds like a good time to put those maelstrom procs to use.
Saph is mostly going to be about a combination of luck and smart dps, and KT literally is just about making sure I'm still awake for P2 and P3 since by the time P1 is over I'm about half out of it.
Questions for Ulduar:
Any chance on two healing this stuff? Or does Blizzard have it set up for 3 healers? All the information I've read on the fights is about 25 man so far.
Currently running with 2 Resto Shamans, and a Disc. priest. Needless to say its overkill. The other resto shaman always wants to go Enh. anyways, sounds like a good time to put those maelstrom procs to use.
Saph is mostly going to be about a combination of luck and smart dps, and KT literally is just about making sure I'm still awake for P2 and P3 since by the time P1 is over I'm about half out of it.
Questions for Ulduar:
Any chance on two healing this stuff? Or does Blizzard have it set up for 3 healers? All the information I've read on the fights is about 25 man so far.
I believe I read a blue post somewhere that basically stated they expect the 10 mans to take 3 healers, but obviously gear will bring room to try different setups.
In the multiple 10 man 3D attempts which I have run while resto Ive noticed that my healing focus seems to be primairily heal sniping with TWed HWs as well as a utilization of CH upon Melee or focused Casters depending on the group makeup. In addition to a Riptided HW I have the Living Ice Crystals trinket which allow me to do an additional 2981 to 4472 non-GCD healing. However, I felt -while running a 3 healer strat composed of myself, a disc Priest, and a Holy Paladin- there was much less overall healing able to be done, with the exception of when Torment is active, therefore rendering CH somewhat less optimal. Here I addpoted a CH HW HW strat as that was the most mana efficient and allowed for the least amount of second guessing. I had been assigned to heal the raid as well as the DK add-tank and this method of play was incredibly easy to acclimate.
I have yet to be able to try out a 2 healing attempt with my guilds Disc Priest and, as such, am not really sure of what healing that encounter would entail. Having said that I couldn't imagine Chain Healing being a viable option due to its long cast time and its tendency to be ineffectual in disbursed situations. I predict a slightly different set up with Int throughput and haste specific gear being pivotal to mimic the paladin style of healing. TWed GHs - be it through a CH or a Riptide - would still be necessary, but with the new changes to AA (should people decide to go back and do these fights for fun) a shaman 2 healing with a Disc Priest could be a decent if not acceptable mode for this encounter.
If anyone has any experience or thoughts on the subject those would be appreciated.
Last edited by Fealty-Frostmane : 03/22/09 at 1:51 AM.
Are you moving? NS won't work with a single button press if you are moving.
Even when standing still it will activate Tidal Force / NS with one button press but *not* actually cast the HW (just got back online yesterday and tested it.)
Standing still, it will cast with one press if you /stopcasting after NS and before the heal. I guess that's the reason for the syntax I use. I activate Tidal Waves independantly, but I don't think it would do anything funky inside the macro.
If you are standing still and not currently casting, the only thing you need to cast with one button click is:
/cast Nature's Swiftness
/cast Tidal Force
/cast Healing Wave
If you are either moving or currently casting a spell, there is no way to cast an instant Healing Wave with just one button click, no matter how many /stopcasting you use.
My guild downed S3D(10) this past Saturday using a heavy physical DPS group comp.
2x Prot Warriors
1x DPS DK
1x Tank DK
1x Enhance Shaman
1x Fury Warrior
1x Rogue
1x SV hunter
1x Holy Priest
1x Resto Shaman (myself)
I have a few tips I would suggest that made the difference between wiping and finally getting the kill for my guild. Some of these tips are very simple but are what made the difference. The difficulty in this fight lies in the control of the drake phase.
-As the drake tank and raid healer, stand right by the melee group with your add tank positioned with the drake between you and him. This will allow them to use their frontal AOE threat abilities on the adds that come toward you from healing aggro while maintaining a fairly high usage of CH. This also helps the raids DPS time on the drakes because they weren't having to run around trying to DPS the adds. We went from having Shadron at 50-65% when Vesperon landed our last attempt to having Shadron at 10-20% when Vesperon lands using this simple placement adjustment.
-When Vesperon's diciple spawns, we had our enhance shaman break off and start healing FT. He put Earthliving on both his weapons at this time to help increase his +Heal. Even his small amount of heal contribution helped to alleviate the raid damage that was happening due to twilight torment.
-After Shadron dies and all (to some extent) of the non-drake adds are dead, have all DPS stop, top them off with a few chain heals, put an ES on whomever is going to tank the diciples in the portal, and have them coordinate when they will jump into the portal. The damage to Vesperon at this point is insignificant compared to the control required for the rest of the fight. I remained outside keeping the add tank and drake tank alive while the enhance shaman went in and kept the rest of the DPS alive. Topping off the DPS before they go into the portal made a big difference for our enhance shaman keeping everyone alive because it limited the amount of throughput required to keep the DPS alive.
Personally I killed Sarth 3D (10 man) without casting 1 chain heal. Mainly because I had an all caster group minus our one fury warrior. I healed alongside a paladin mainly using HW on the tank while making sure I maintained ES at all times. i would set a focus for the dragon that was down at the time so I could Precast a HW and top the tank directly after the breath. LHW any meteor damage on your dps.
We did it with 3 tanks so I did not have any issue with having to position myself in order for the adds to die between my magma totem and the paladins consecrate all the whelps and flame adds died in a matter of time.
We killed it long story short but let me give more general Advice. If you are dong only 2 tanks I suggest you spec into push back Protection and drop imp ES but that's just my suggestion. If you do it with 3 tanks your drake tanks only significant damage taht you will have to physically cast on is the drakes break. All melee damage can and will be taken care of by earth shield unless you sub 1800 healing.
The only tough part of this fight as a shaman is managing your Mana more then actually healing. i personally had it extra hard because I was trying to help on add deaths by dropping magma totem which is 1k+ mana in itself. So it is in your best interests to heal everyone by reaction and not preemptively.
What i mean by this is basically use the appropriate heal in order to get as near to topping off as possible. For instance if the tank is minus 7.7k Use HW you might have over heal but he will be topped. and then sit idle and allow yourself to regen mana. If he sits -2k that is ok because it is in your best interest to Regen. If you are healing the Tank on sarth which I hope your not then you have no choice but to top the tank. The overall point is to use the least amount of spells possible while still be effective because when the second and third drake are down at the same time and twilight torment is active its an all out spam from there. Basically your saving your mana for healing your dps while torment is active.
My take of chain heal on this fight is that it is just simply to slow and has no effect unless your dps is melee based. even then I would say it is simply to slow because the fight is all about keeping people at a decent amount f hp so the random effects do not gib them such as the meteors, breaths, and Adds.
That just my personal thoughts and sorry if it sounds choppy I just woke up.
(The above is not available in the current release of shaman_hep, it is in testing).
WWS a guildie posted from their combat log (so the numbers won't match exactly, but they are very close) Wow Web Stats
The first thing I saw for the first time was what Earthliving's actual overhealing was, which is about what I expected.
But more importantly, the proc rate is lower than it should be. Earthliving has a base 20% proc rate, but I have Blessing of Eternals and Glyph of Earthliving Weapon. I should be seeing a proc rate of over 25%.
This is not a bug in my program as when I saw it I figured it must be so I went to WWS and added up the numbers:
Spells that can proc Earthliving from WWS:
Chain Heal: 1647 hits + 1109 crits = 2756
Riptide: 430 hits + 240 crits = 670
Lesser Healing Wave: 189 hits + 135 crits = 324
Healing Wave: 47 hits + 43 crits = 90
Living Ice Crystals: 44 hits + 19 crits = 63
(Living Ice Crystals procs Earthliving, but if you don't believe me you can leave it out as it is a small enough number that it doesn't really effect the proc rate)
Total spell hits that could proc Earthliving: 3903
Then if you click on Abilities in WWS, select Heals, then select Earthliving.
It lists everyone Earthliving was applied to, the duration, and the applied count.
If you add these up:
93+52+45+45+41+42+43+37+34+34+33+30+31+29+28+28+22+20+19+18+18+18+12+8+1+1+3+7+4+1+1+ 1+18+
7+4+1+1+7+3+7+1+1
Applied: 849 times
Proc rate: (849 / 3903) * 100 % = 21.75% Earthliving proc rate from the numbers on WWS
My local combat log and parser had 21.7380%.
OK, well that is just one raid. I fed a bunch of combat logs through my parser and came up with an overall proc rate:
Earthliving proc rate: 20.4428%
Again this is with Glyph of Earthliving Weapon and with 2 talent points in Blessing of Eternals.
I am very interested in what other shaman's proc rates are especially those without the glyph. Is the glyph broken and currently doing nothing? Is Earthliving Weapon's base proc rate less than 20%? Is there some sort of hidden ppm that is broken and keeping the proc rate too low? Am I misunderstanding the data?
03/16/09, 12:52 PM
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