Not worth it. 10 Intellect from +Stats gives you 165 mana with Ancestral Knowledge, plus a sliver of mana back from Mana Tide and Replenishment, spell crit and spellpower.
Greater Mana Restoration (10mp5) gives you 250 mana in 125 seconds (2 minutes 5 seconds - thanks wowhead), all challenging fights last longer than that.
You forgot to account for Blessing of Kings -- 10 int grants 181 mana in a raid, not 165. With that in mind, the TTT demonstrates that 10 int (aside from spell power and crit benefits), is equivalent to 5.5 mp5 over 5 minutes of combat. 250 mana would then be about 7.5 mp5 over 5 minutes (it gets replenishment and Mana Tide benefit, too). So your conclusion that it's not a great enchant is correct, but your math is wrong. Also, within the context of gear for the entry level resto shaman, it's not that bad an option.
you shouldn't dismiss +250mana to chest completly. Yes it is inferior, but when The Generals hardmode was some of the hot stuff, that enchant was far better than any other enchant. Granted that was a gimick fight, but it showed that the enchant did have a use.
you shouldn't dismiss +250mana to chest completly. Yes it is inferior, but when The Generals hardmode was some of the hot stuff, that enchant was far better than any other enchant. Granted that was a gimick fight, but it showed that the enchant did have a use.
Even looking at the micro aspect of the Vezax encounter, the marginal benefit by having 69 additional mana does not provide enough significant benefit to swap enchants. Better healing choices and coordination with other healers in the raid will net a greater benefit than swapping enchants.
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Even looking at the micro aspect of the Vezax encounter, the marginal benefit by having 69 additional mana does not provide enough significant benefit to swap enchants. Better healing choices and coordination with other healers in the raid will net a greater benefit than swapping enchants.
Even looking at the micro aspect of the Vezax encounter, the marginal benefit by having 69 additional mana does not provide enough significant benefit to swap enchants. Better healing choices and coordination with other healers in the raid will net a greater benefit than swapping enchants.
I agree, but when you get new Chest item, what you will enchant it with? The thing is, Resto Shaman doesn't benefit from any other stats except Stamina and Intellect, so it is (250 mana) vs (181 mana + 10 stamina + 0.15% crit + 1.8 sp) or in other words 69 mana vs 0.15% crit and 1.8 sp. So the difference is very minor, but keeping in mind, that 250 mana costs like twenty times less then 10 stats, I pretty much choose 250 mana.
So the new elemental T10 relic on the PTR is now "The periodic damage from your Flame Shock spell grants 44 haste rating for 30 sec. Stacks up to 5 times.".
If this makes it to live, wouldn't this be way better than the t10 resto totem for resto shammies? A constant 220 haste is way better than 255 spellpower, even if you do have to waste a GCD flame shocking every 30 seconds.
So the new elemental T10 relic on the PTR is now "The periodic damage from your Flame Shock spell grants 44 haste rating for 30 sec. Stacks up to 5 times.".
If this makes it to live, wouldn't this be way better than the t10 resto totem for resto shammies? A constant 220 haste is way better than 255 spellpower, even if you do have to waste a GCD flame shocking every 30 seconds.
Situational, hard modes or fights that are not standstill and heal your brains out will make sure it isn't easily viable.
So the new elemental T10 relic on the PTR is now "The periodic damage from your Flame Shock spell grants 44 haste rating for 30 sec. Stacks up to 5 times.".
If this makes it to live, wouldn't this be way better than the t10 resto totem for resto shammies? A constant 220 haste is way better than 255 spellpower, even if you do have to waste a GCD flame shocking every 30 seconds.
It depends on your gear. One way is to gem Haste, get to Haste cap and then use Spellpower relic. Other way is to gem Spellpower and use Haste relic. What to choose? I think the first way, since result is pretty much the same, but no GCD wasting on FS, since it's not always possible or you not always can track it if people need intensive healing.
I think the best way to go will be to sacrifice some SP for haste, and then get the resto relic. With everything that our guild healers are asked to do in progression fights, I honestly don't see how we're going to have free GCDs to go around Flame Shocking either the boss or the adds (and praying that we actually hit it).
I have only seen three ICC fights at this point, but I think its fair to say that on the fights where haste will be needed the most, the GCDs to keep the elemental relic up will just not be available on a consistent basis.
I agree, but when you get new Chest item, what you will enchant it with? The thing is, Resto Shaman doesn't benefit from any other stats except Stamina and Intellect, so it is (250 mana) vs (181 mana + 10 stamina + 0.15% crit + 1.8 sp) or in other words 69 mana vs 0.15% crit and 1.8 sp. So the difference is very minor, but keeping in mind, that 250 mana costs like twenty times less then 10 stats, I pretty much choose 250 mana.
I would still go with +10 to stats or Enchant Chest - Greater Mana Restoration - Spell - World of Warcraft. I think we agree that the difference between the stats or 250 mana are marginal, but the barrier is cost to acquire the enchant. I don't find this to be too high of a barrier and am able to withstand the increased cost.
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Here’s a draft for a new section for the TTT. Please post if you have any suggestions on how to make the best use of your badges.
Also, anyone test this post Patch 3.2 to make sure it still functions the same way?
• Glyph of Earthliving Weapon Increases the 20% base chance by 5% to 21%.
Tier 9 Shoulders (Elemental) – 45 Emblem of Triumph
The totem is the cheapest item you can buy with Triumph badges and gives you a static +234 spellpower. It’s your biggest bang per badge. Next, I recommend buying the chest. The chest is always loaded with the most stats, giving you the biggest boost to your healing (plus you can walk around looking like you now have Tier 9).
Next, buy the gloves. Why wait? Why not upgrade your gloves and then your chest? The answer: Koralon, the latest boss in the Wintergrasp instance.
10 man: Drops Tier 9 (ilevel 232) gloves and legs
25 man: Drops Tier 9 (ilevel 245) gloves and legs
So if you’re lucky, you’ll get your second piece of Tier 9 from Koralon, hopefully the gloves but wear anything to get the two-piece bonus.
Vault of Archavon - Koralon 10 and 25 (2 each). All other bosses drop Conquest
10-man or 25-man Trial of the Crusader raids
Note: In Patch 3.3, Triumph will replace Conquest as the base badge. Emblem of Frost will become the top-level badge giving you access to Tier 10.
[Emblem of Conquest] = Tier 8
Everything else drops Conquest badges – Naxx, Ulduar, heroics. Everything except non-heroic, 5-man dungeons. However, you do get a Conquest badge if you do the non-heroic daily quest. Before buying any Tier 8 to supplement the pieces of Tier 9 that you are missing, I would first buy these items if you do not already have an upgrade:
One question, with two side-effects: Are you intending this for a ToC/ToGC raiding shaman or a shaman gearing up? The explanations and suggestions point toward gearing up a resto shaman (no T8/T9 yet, source of badges, etc).
The two side effects:
1) A gearing up shaman may or may not have access to trophies, in which the T9 232 pieces are either 30 or 50 badges, not 45 or 75.
2) Depending on how they feel about mana regen, why not [Heartmender Circle]? The thread discussion points at [Band of the Invoker] for shamans in full 232/245/258 gear, but I thought that was because they did not need the mp5.
Depending on how they feel about mana regen, why not [Heartmender Circle]? The thread discussion points at [Band of the Invoker] for shamans in full 232/245/258 gear, but I thought that was because they did not need the mp5.
Mp5 isn't as vital as it used to be for a resto shaman at any gear level. Despite complaints to the contrary in the official forums, we had regen comparable to other classes already, before patch 3.2 brought significant buffs to water shield. If you do end up needing mp5, there are cheap temporary ways to get it while you are gearing up toward higher level gear. For example, [Glyph of Water Mastery] is a static 30 mp5, and can be easily swapped out for a throughput glyph if not needed.
As Silverstorm said, there is a pretty big difference between a Shaman who's getting EoT from the daily, Onyxia and VoA runs (my situation) and someone who's hitting ToC10 and 25 regularly, and has many more badges to burn. But I think gear choices are dynamic, in that you need to balance the amount of badges you "commit," and the amount of an upgrade an item is.
For my fresh level 80 Shaman, the T8.5 helm was an easy first choice for EoC for a number of reasons. It's a fantastic piece - all throughput stats, brings you halfway to a very decent 2pc set bonus and perhaps most importantly, it's a slot that doesn't have an accessible alternative *and* it's an item that's going to last a while. That's to say, all good helms drop from bosses that are going to be challenging for a fresh 80 or just a pain to clear to - and then there's RNG, KT never dropped my rogue's tier token for like, four months. And the direct upgrade drops from the last boss of ToC10 (hard to heal in less than all-epics, as I learned this weekend) or cost 50+ EoT - so in other words, T8.5 is going to last a long while for you.
So generally, my philosophy when it comes to spending badges is asking, how much does an item cost? How much of an upgrade is it? Are there readily available alternatives (criteria includes size of group needed, difficulty/gear requirements of fight, etc)? Is it going to last a while?
With that in mind, I don't think the Egg and Barricade are great buys. I'm currently wearing blues in those slots, but if you consider overall stats, the 8.5 helm just blows everything out of the water. (The chest is good, but sacrifices throughput for mp5, and enchanting/gemming your helm generally costs more, so I like to make it last).
Also, Egg and Barricade cost you 80 EoC, and are only ilvl 200. I know that's how it was pre-3.2, but at this point, you're going to want to shoot for 226 as soon as possible. I'm praying to see the spellpower shields in Naxx within the next couple weeks, and just eating the blue for now.
--
On another note, does anyone feel weird that items with +spirit or Elemental Tier 9 are (theoretically) some of our best items? The thing is, which I think might get overlooked by the high end people sporting 1k haste, gearing exclusively for throughput isn't the way to go when you're just starting out. It's more of a balancing act at the start - squeezing enough haste and SP out of your gear so you can keep up with damage, but maintaining enough mana and regen to last the entire fight.
Replenishment and liberal use of Mana Tide helps, but I'm thinking hard about [Heartmender Circle] as a first EoT purchase. [Totem of Calming Tides] is nice, but it isn't a straight-up 234 spellpower buff, in that you're getting some sort of boost from your existing totem.
It's great to get the perspective of a shaman like Uber on starting gear. You make an excellent point about buying the Tier 8.5 helm before the shield or trinket. That helm will likely last you longer than either of those items and it's better than what drops in the heroic 5-man ToC.
Originally Posted by UberDrivel
[Totem of Calming Tides] is nice, but it isn't a straight-up 234 spellpower buff, in that you're getting some sort of boost from your existing totem.
Actually, it pretty much is a straight 234 spellpower buff. [Totem of the Bay] affects only CH. [Deadly Gladiator's Totem of the Third Wind] only affects LHW (and thanks again for pointing out this easy to get but very helpful item). [Totem of Calming Tides] is the first relic that gives a boost to all your spells. Also, [Heartmender Circle] has not only mp5 but crit, which is the weakest stat for resto shaman. It's simply not a good investment compared with the boost the relic provides.
Can you tell us a little bit more about which fights are giving you mana problems? Which ones are they and how long are they lasting? Are you casting a lot of Healing Waves, which are quite mana-intensive?
Can you tell us a little bit more about which fights are giving you mana problems? Which ones are they and how long are they lasting? Are you casting a lot of Healing Waves, which are quite mana-intensive?
Sure. Here's my Armory, for reference. (I'm probably switching mains, but my rogue is still linked here)
My mp5 is feels pretty low right now - I have around 300 with Water Shield and Wisdom, but Mana Tide, Owl Trinket and (usually) replenishment help out. Runic Mana Potion if it gets really bad. I recently swapped out the Watery Mastery glyph for Chain Heal as well. I was fine through early Ulduar 10 this weekend with three healers - Razor let me drop two Tides, XT was easy, Kologarn was fine. Also, for what it's worth, I two-healed Patchwerk 10 without ooming, heh.
I pretty much only use Healing Wave with Nature's Swiftness - I rely mostly on Riptide every cooldown, and Lesser Healing Wave with Tidal Waves procs, and Chain Heal if three+ people have taken a chunk of damage. I guess it's a RT/2LHW rotation, with CH as needed. Thing is, I've read that HW is "more" efficient in that you're spending less mana per point of healing, compared to LHW, but of course the risk is overhealing.
One thing I wasn't able to figure out is if the Tidal Waves 30% bonus to HW is applied before or after talents. Does the cast time go 3.0 -> 2.5 -> 1.75 seconds, or 3.0 -> 2.1 -> 1.6 seconds? In any case, I've been using LHW because it "feels" faster, has a nice 50%+ crit with the TW bonus (giving me Imp. Water Shield Procs and keeping AF up). Even if they have similar casting time, LHW > HW for mana preservation, right?
I think most of my issues have just been inexperience - Ignis was really tough to heal as a newbie (especially after being used to just pew pewing on my rogue), and we had an inexperienced Off Tank who wasn't handling adds for shatter well, so we ended up just moving on after a couple wipes. I'd imagine without stellar dps that the fight would last long enough for two Tides, but between Flame Jets, Pots and tank-healing, it was pretty mana-intensive.
Similar raid inexperience on Iron Council - I was on the Steelbreaker tank, who overgeared the place (40k, 45% avoidance), and the raid, but the Disc Priest on him was really undergeared and didn't know about Fusion Punch. I was basically spamming Chain Heal and LHW, as needed, but we kept losing the tank to Fusion or just large spikes of damage from Steelbreaker, again mostly just inexperience/gear. I think we're going to just save the lockout (I'm a full time student, so I pretty much can only raid on weekends) and try again next week.
I also made the dubious decision of pugging ToC10 afterwards, despite being undergeared for the place, and it was pretty shocking how fast I burned through mana. I think I had maybe 8k/24k mana after the very first Beast, even after using Mana Tide and my Trinket. We didn't really last long enough with the Jormungar for me to see how my mana pool held up afterwards, but it was pretty intense.
I guess my question going into T8/T9 stuff is, how much regen do I need to not burn horribly through my mana pool on intensive fights? I think I have a decent amount of haste (~450) and the spellpower is coming along (~2100 with ELW), but I'm not really sure if I can last more than five minutes spamming heals...
^To clarify, I'm talking mostly for three-healing in Ulduar and eventually ToC 10-mans, so generally I'm missing some buffs like Swift Retribution or Totem of Wrath, and usually splitting between tank and raiding healing in the same fight. Healing assignments seem kinda silly when you have Grid. My guild runs 25s on Tues/Wed/Thurs, so I don't really make those raids.
Oh, and as far as [Heartmender Circle], I am disliking Crit already, but the wasted 50 Spirit on [Band of the Invoker] really makes me uneasy. But both are probably poor choices at the moment - I think [Nobundo's Spaulders of Conquest] would be a big throughput upgrade, trading haste for [Valorous Earthshatter Spaulders]'s crit and mp5. With no real hope of getting Trophies for 245, I think spending your first 30 EoT on the shoulders are a pretty good investment as a new Shaman, since there aren't really many alternatives as far as 'pads. (Naxx25 for Lawltheb, which I lucked out on, [Council Chamber Epaulets] and [Mantle of the Eternal Sentinel] if you can pug Sarth, but do I really want to do that?) So it probably comes down to Shoulders or the Totem, then.
Lovely update on the TTT. I was going through all of the BiS items and was wondering if a staff will ever fit into the mix. I'm looking primarily at Enlightenment since with 3 Haste gems in there and an 81SP enchant you can get a full whoop of:
However, if you're using a mace + shield of a much lower item level, then the staff would be a tremendous upgrade. In general, shamans favor shields due to the extra armor. However, I should add the off hands to the gear list. And I need to change the HEP values. I forgot that Wowhead normalized them. Will try to fix later today.
In general, shamans favor shields due to the extra armor.
I think this is a marginal benefit at best. My main is a Protection Paladin, and I do highly value the excellent physical mitigation which armour provides. However, on my Resto Shaman, how much unavoidable raid damage do I take which is purely physical and hence mitigated by armour at all? I can see armour helping you be a little sturdier in the case of an add getting loose and perhaps letting you survive a hit before the add gets yanked back, but honestly I'd rather not gear on the assumption that my raid cannot position itself correctly (to put me in danger of being whacked by a freshly spawned add) and that the tanks are incompetent.
A more compelling argument for me - which is admittedly highly dependent on your own guild situation - is that staves are more highly contested items than caster shields; a shield drop is going to proliferate through the resto/ele shaman and holy paladins much quicker than having to depend on rolling against the warlocks, mages, priests and druids.
Last edited by Lumines-EU : 11/03/09 at 4:43 PM.
Reason: typo
I think this is a marginal benefit at best. My main is a Protection Paladin, and I do highly value the excellent physical mitigation which armour provides. However, on my Resto Shaman, how much unavoidable raid damage do I take which is purely physical and hence mitigated by armour at all? I can see armour helping you be a little sturdier in the case of an add getting loose and perhaps letting you survive a hit before the add gets yanked back, but honestly I'd rather not gear on the assumption that my raid cannot position itself correctly (to put me in danger of being whacked by a freshly spawned add) and that the tanks are incompetent.
A more compelling argument for me - which is admittedly highly dependent on your own guild situation - is that staves are more highly contested items than caster shields; a shield drop is going to proliferate through the resto/ele shaman and holy paladins much quicker than having to depend on rolling against the warlocks, mages, priests and druids.
We discussed staffs a few pages back and I think the bottom line is make sure your guild is ok with it. As far as total stats goes its really about the same. If you feel armor has some small hep value for you go ahead and put it in. Its debatable if it does at all, but certainly the value is extremely small if there is one. One nice thing about an off hand if that you can easily swap it out (even in combat but you lose a gcd) if you need different stats (e.g. switching haste shield for mp5 shield )
My new guild has 2 resto shamans only one of which believes in chain heal. The other one casts riptide and LHW until he goes oom with the Twins at 40% so needless to say I don't believe this is a viable healing spec for shamans. Would there be any benefit at all, ever to having this type of "resto" shaman in your raid?
Things are more like they are now than they ever were before. - Dwight Eisenhower
10/27/09, 2:28 PM
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