Yes. Its a very good strat for reactive or steady healing on tanks and basically provides 100% uptime on ancestral fortitude. However, those things are not really needed on twins. It's good for NRB or anub phase 3. Even when using RT LHW LHW type healing I still weave in CH's for its mana efficiency, the proc off riptide, and additional healing to melee. The only times I do not weave ch into tank healing are when are no targets for CH to bounce to or targets you don't want it to bounce to (anub).

If this person never uses ch at all I seriously question his understanding of the class. It has great uses even when tank healing. RT and LHW are great reactive and mitigation healing, but every spell has its use and CH has many even aside from raid CH spam bot.

I agree that chain heal isn't the only spell we cast but as you said you'd question his knowledge of his class. This fellow had 3 chain heal casts in a entire reg 25 man raid.

Just a quick question on Heroic Twin Valks.

My main spec is elemental, but I go resto for this encounter as chain heal is very effective. Hots are really the name of the game for the fight, and as such I change my glyphs out for Chain heal (always use that anyway), Earthliving and Healing Stream.

Wondering if anyone else does the same and whether or not there is a better set of glyphs for the fight. We have no issue downing the fight, and I usually put out around 9k+ hps, just interested in what other people do as far as glyphs.

I appreciate any response.

Earthliving is a terrible glyph. It's by design unimpressive, and is bugged to not even be as good as it should be. Instead of increasing proc chance from 20% to 25%, it increases the 20% proc chance by 5% (of 20%) to 21%. If you're looking for more HoT output as a resto shaman, the Riptide glyph is powerful. Here is a general overview of all the glyph options available to you:

[Resto] Best Practices: PvE Healing Discussion

Wow, I was not aware of how terrible the Earthliving glyph was. Now I'm glad I asked the question, and am thankful for your input. Looks like I'll go Riptide in its place.

He is using the 'old' (pre 3.2) healing style : RT + LHW. The thing is that things have changed a lot on our mechanics and shamans have renewed their healing style. We now use Chain Heal a lot more (of course we still use LHW if someone need a fast healing or if there are very few people injuried and they are far from each other meaning a CH wouldn't heal more than one person).
Moreover you're talking about the Twins, even if he would be assigned to tank healing the Twins are THE fight were Chain Heal is king : between 12 and 25 grouped players who takes constant damages ... could you dream about something better ?
The only reason I can see for not playing CH in the Twins is if you forgot to buy the spell from the trainer (but maybe then it should be good to think about about playing another class).

Using either of these weights, the HEP for [Pulsing Spellshield] is coming out higher than [Pride of the Kor'kron] for me in lootrank. Maybe add it to the TTT's 245 and below section? It's very easy to acquire.

My results are the same as Jessamy for the glyphs effects as you can see below :

I'm not using the RT glyph, but maybe I should give it a try.
The ES glyph is for me way above the CH one, but this report has be done with ToC10/25 normal and heroic and Uludar 10/25 HM. Meaning there are a lot of raid 10 logs in it, and it prolly lower the effect of Chain Heal glyph compared to someone who would do only raid 25 as you got more chances to find 4 targets for your CH in raid 25 than in 10.

That's exactly why I no longer list Glyph of Chain Heal as a recommended "mandatory" glyph for all shaman healers. Its value varies significantly between 10 and 25 man content. For example, on the Twin Valkyrs encounter, I use just about all Chain Heal on 25 man mode, and never or rarely cast the spell on 10 man mode.

I have updated my glyph overview to note the strength of the Chain Heal glyph in 25 man content.

Took a look at how the gear rankings would change if we used the following values:

Default Values
Spell Power 1.0
Mp5 1.0
Intellect 0.6 (instead of 0.7)
Haste rating 1.5
Crit rating 0.8 (instead of 0.6)

No major changes at the 258 level, except for belts.

[Belt of the Ice Burrower] (with 2 yellow gems) = 327
[Cord of Pale Thorns] (1 red, 1 yellow) = 319 or with 2 yellow = 324

The haste rating would have to rise to 1.7 before the leather belt becomes No. 1 again. However, to be honest, I personally would rather have the 38 mp5 rather than a useless 76 spirit. However, it could also be handy to have both and gem the leather belt solely for haste for shorter fights.

I regularly get assigned to soaker healing on our Twins HM kills, a job at which CH is absolutely terrible while RT, 1.1s LHWs, (and sometimes 1.3s HWs) shine. Obviously you won't get the 10k hps CH can give you there but I consider it the only viable style of healing when on that assignment. (That doesn't mean that i think CH is bad, quite the opposite. Just saying that there can be reasons not to use it from time to time, even on twins )

Yes, a person who takes the balls (soaks them up ). This is 25m hard mode.

Scrusi, I too concentrate on the goalies in 25 man hard mode Twin Valk fight.
Also, I cast some LHW on the people who get targeted with the individual DOT that forces them to change essence.

Our goalies now stand much closer to the groups, so close that CH can bounce from them back to the group. Our kills are cleaner, but that could simply be due to gear and overall knowledge, not necessarily the new positions. They don't stand that close to get CH bounces, they stand that close to do their duties more easily.

Also, how do you guys get 10k hps? I'm just below 7k, 60% CH, 10% LHW (so I do lose some hp/s by doing that much LHW). We usually have 4 AOE healers, two druids, a holy priest and shaman with CH. The paladin heals both tanks with very little help. Is it just that my guild's other 3 healers are so good, i've got less to heal?

I think hes referring to the theoretical HPS ch on 4 targets provides. I tend to be in the 7k hps range on a typical aoe heavy fights where I get mostly 4 bounce CHs.

Yeah, 7-8k is standard for me on twins (when not healing our soakers, which are too far out for CH bounces) I've hit 10k before when we didn't have a druid. When we do, the druid has the 10k
When I'm not healing soakers I use virtually no LHW (2 on our last kill). Distribution tends to be along the lines of 70% CH, 12% ELW, 10% RT, 7% ES, 1% AA.

Hi everybody,

I'm a quiet and regular reader of EJ but do not post very often. As patch 3.2 aproached lots of things have changed, so the shaman's healing did. And lots of shamans in lots of raids means there are lots of different assignments on heal and many ways of how they're doing their job. I often wonder how you obtain your HEP values any why they are like that, because it does not match my observations. I also disagree that the Riptide Glyph is a Glyph of big worth. From my point of view, CH is the way to go for the vast majority of encounters, use the Tidal Waves buff on occassion for 1 oder 2 HWs and the go back to CH. CH is a very sustainable spell one could cast forever for the duration of an encounter. I use Riptide in only a few situations:
- I have to move ( and someone needs heal)
- I have nothing else to do and I am bored
- I know about an event where lots of heal is required in advance, so I set 1 or 2 Riptides to boost CH.
- last but not least in the special case of P3 at Anub hardmode, where I heal a dedicated penetrating cold target with lhw+riptide to gain other healers more time for that particular target right after the application of the debuf (otherwhise I do tank heal just there).

The way to gear for CH is to minimize manaregeneration, maximize spellhaste by not doing a horse-trade, using CH Glyph and also going for crit as it supports throughput and WS procs. The first point I'll do by sensing it not by any calculation. The others can be calculated and I gave and give haste a very high value while not having problems with being low on mana. In fact, I have such little mana issues that I go for Revitalizing Skyflare Diamond...

So, what does Shaman_hep tell me (from a Tribute to Insanity Log)?


I was quite a bit surprised by those numbers. I gave haste twice the value of SP before but I also believed that I screwed that a bit by believing that small and fast CHs are better than slow and bigones (and overvaluating haste) even if the theoretical Hps should be higher with less haste and more of other stats as SP. So while haste normaly should not become better if you gain more and more haste (at high numbers of haste even more) I think it states that it heavly relys on your style of healing. I'd say Sunwell is back. I hope I used Shaman_Hep the right way and if you are in need of logs or any other help, let me know.

To give some background information:
2.8k add heal unbuffed, 1118 haste, 32,5% crit and 262mp5 in combat
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Profile: The World of Warcraft Armory

How do I find out? I searched the shaman_hep report for meta and skyflare but could not find anything though I set META_INCREASED_CRIT = 1.

If you are using the [Revitalizing Skyflare Diamond] set META_INCREASED_CRIT = 3. I will add an example to the configuration with that setting as "# META increased crit percentage" is easy to miss and think it is a toggle and add a warning if it is not set to 0 or 3.

Currently shaman_hep supports taking that meta into account, but reporting the value of using it is on my TODO list.

That report is the largest value for T9 4-piece I have seen, so that was definitely interesting. The full report was not posted, but I am guessing that Chain Heal is a very high percentage of your heals. [Edit: From the WoL that is incorrect.]

That may be the first report I see with HEP that high : MP5 HEP at 1.37, Haste at 2.27, Cirt rating at 0.93 and int at 0.88. All of the HEP are very high. You got a good SP of 2700 but that's nothing abnormal, so I'm wondering why you obtain thoses values.

But what I feel really strange is that part :

Even if you're spamming CH all the fight long and it always hit 4 targets, can a Glyph reach a value of 527 HEP ?
It also seems like the way you play (extremely massive CH using) gives some more value to the 4 pieces T9 bonus than we are used to see. But even with reaching a 50 HEP value, you should check about going down to two pieces T9, it may be of some improvement to change two pieces (the helm and shoulders in your case), you would gain some crit rating on your shoulders and haste on the helm. I can't be sure that it would be worth it for you, but it's worth checking.

May you tell me how long is your CH's cast ? 1.7 or 1.6 seconds ?


That's the point : the theorical value of SP or crit is higher than the 'real' one, and that's mostly because if your co-healers aren't sleepy the benefits of SP or Crit will mostly go to overhealing and then being nearly useless (except helping a little with mana regeneration for the crit, but you said you had no mana problem).

Looking at the WOL report provided, the percentage of CH wasn't very high but overheal was. At 63% OH on CH, 73% on LHW and 71% on RT it makes sense that spellpower and crit get devalued because they add nothing to effective healing (and therefore the value of haste rises.)

We determined in the other thread that the cause of high HEP values lied primarily in the way we modeled overhealing. This is true the higher our overhealing, the more weighted towards haste your log will parse.

Correct. Basically the reasoning is that if you have 30% overhealing 30% of your spells gain no benefit from additional spell power making haste more useful. Similar calculations for crit but you look at the % of crits that overheal.

Personally I select gear around certain encounters and sometimes certain parts of those encounters(heroic twins or anub p3). The other fights I am not typically stressed enough to bother to optimize for them.