Knowing the kind of bugs Blizzard has, I am starting to wonder if the glyph adds 5% of the 20% to the proc rate:
0.20 * 1.05 = 0.21 (21% proc rate)
That's interesting, as the last proc rate parse I ran on DW CH converged on a proc rate of 43.75%, after std error. However, I'm wondering if the assumption should have been that glyphed EW DW had an intended proc rate of 50%, but the mechanic for the glyph was simply broken.
Last edited by locriani : 04/01/09 at 2:40 PM.
Reason: I SPELL GUD
I will run shaman_hep next to WWS in Naxx/EoE tonight. I'll post the data as soon as I'm done. I'm not glyphed for EL, but skilled Blessing of Eternals.
I will run shaman_hep next to WWS in Naxx/EoE tonight. I'll post the data as soon as I'm done. I'm not glyphed for EL, but skilled Blessing of Eternals.
The released version of shaman_hep does not have the Earthliving proc rate info. The next release that includes that also includes information on talents and glyphs, but it is still in development and testing.
I have been getting some combatlogs sent to me from shaman who say they don't have Glyph of Healing Wave, but do have Blessing of Eternals and they are getting proc rates of 24-26%, compared to 20-21% with the Glyph. Does the Glyph actually lower your proc rate 5% instead of raising it 5% or what is going on? More data is needed.
I am going to ditch the Glyph for now and see what happens to my proc rate, but I won't really have enough data to work with for that test until after raid this weekend.
Data without the glyph but with Blessing of Eternals shows a 23.29% proccrate over a sample-size of 4187 spellcasts. Thanks to stassart for doing my homework.
Data
EL-Glyph: no
Blessing of Eternals: yes
EL-Procc: 975
Total possible procs: 4187
975 / 4187 = 23.29% earthliving proc rate
I'm a little confused. I just tried to get numbers from WWS, following your example by adding all EL-applies and dividing it through the combined number of heals used. I'm getting 39,81%. Either it's a statistical deviation, I got a lot of use out of my Blessing of Eternals (possibly true, 3 of our 5 healers were mediocre at best) or I'm reading the numbers wrong. It accounts to 4% of my total heal, so that doesn't seem to be too far off the mark.
We had two wipes yesterday at Patch (I know, I know, don't judge us), so perhaps healing people to full after ressing might account for a higher number of low-HP-situations and Blessing-usage.
Numbers:
EL-Procc: 975
CH: 1770
RT: 323
HW: 70
LHW: 286
/Edit: Link to the WWS used, for anyone who wants to check my numbers: Wow Web Stats
Ah, my sleep-deprived mind at work. Thank you for the correction.
I'm not glyphed for EL but have skilled Blessing of Eternals. Edited my post above and added Glyph/Talent for easier 'data-perusal'.
The problem with trying to account for Blessing of the Eternals when determining Earthliving proc chance is that there is no reliable way to verify whether your heal hit someone under 35% health. Even if someone did take the time to write a combat log parser that dynamically tracked player health and filtered out the ELW executes, combat log time stamp issues would keep the data from being completely accurate.
The only way to get reliable data for the Earthliving Glyph is to analyze combat logs from Shaman without Blessing of the Eternals.
You're right. I got too hung up on the real world data posted above and went for the expensive approach over the obvious one. As long as you make sure to account for ELW refreshes, the data should be error-free.
hallo there! Recently I was healing in 25 men naxx and found my chain heal to take up about 57-65% of my total healing (based on recount [obviously this number is going to be astronomically lower and retardedly higher on certain fights like kel'thuzad and sapphiron, respectively]) and then riptide, lhw, earth shield, and lhw along with earth living and ancestral healing dabbling up the rest of my total healing done. Then late today I ran 10 naxx and found chain heal to be only 45-50% with riptide around 20, and then earth shield at 10ish, and other stuff in between. Is this how it should work out? I just got back into playing about 2 months ago, so I know chain heal should be way up there due to being used to chain heal botting back in burning crusade but I just wanted to know what you guys thought.
Also, as far as healing for 25 men patchwerk goes ... How should I heal it D: I really have no idea, i've debated between healing wave/lhw spam dabbling in riptides on the hateful tanks, or just straight up chain heal spamming it since all three tanks are going to be taking damage and they should all be within chain heal jump range. I'm usually assigned to just keep all 3 up (not by myself) with the paladins, priests, and druids on different assignments. Any suggestions/tips/hints would be wonderful ...
Also Also, I know this isn't really the place for it, but I was wondering what a WWS is, as well as a parse(r), and where I could find something that would track trinket procs for me... any help would be appreciated.
How much of your healing is chain heal (or any of your spells) will vary wildly depending on fight dynamics. Some fights I have 85% chain heal (Thaddius), some I have 0%. With regard to Patchwerk, it's such a straightforward encounter you have a lot of flexibility for what to do. I've done fine spamming pure chain heal (with shield refreshes etc), and I've had fun pushing some big overheal numbers just using riptide and healing wave (no chain heal at all).
Originally Posted by Maatreus
Also Also, I know this isn't really the place for it, but I was wondering what a WWS is, as well as a parse(r), and where I could find something that would track trinket procs for me... any help would be appreciated.
WWS is short for WowWebStats. The combatlog parser people talk about in this thread is probably shaman_hep, a perl script you can use to analyze your personal healing style to see what gear upgrades you should focus on.
Chain Heal is less useful in 10 man compared to 25 man as there is less raid damage and less chance of jumps so yes your results are completely understandable (and common sense).
Also, as far as healing for 25 men patchwerk goes ... How should I heal it D:
It really depends on rest of healers and tank gear.
If you are new to 25man Patchwerk and other healers are underperforming and you are a bit undergeared(might go oom). Chain heal is the way to go, if all 3 tanks are getting hit 3target CH will provide decent hps. While spending mana effectively.
If you are farming him for a while now and other healers up to the job, 3rd tank might not get hit at all.. so you end up healing just 2 targets with chain heal which provides less HPS and you might want to switch to HW and have at least 1 point in Healing Way, to keep the buff up for almost all fight (increasing healing done by almost 18%). [Totem of Misery] help a lot for this, but if the fight is around 3 minutes long and you are well geared you shouldn't have mana problems.
I prefer HW over LHW because of higher HPS and around same mana per second usage.
I have made spreadsheet for myself(using my current gear), just to back up my theory with math.
As it is straight forward spam heal fight mana per second usage is more important then healing per mana (as we don't plan to go oom before fight ends).
Here are values from it (no overheal, without AA, 4piece bonus, 2700sp, 27%crit, 532haste, mana usage is calculated with IWS procs based on crit rate):
Spell
HPS
MPS
LHW on ES(glyphed)
4941
400,88
HW
5070
401,17
HW with hway
5983
401,17
CH on 2 targets
5331
368,78
CH on 3 targets
6220
368,78
So for patchwerk either use CH or HW, depending on the raid setup.
On Patchwerk, using chain heal will make sure that any tank that's not at full hp gets healed, even if your primary target gets healed up before your heal lands. In addition, it will help with keeping up the armor buff on all three tanks, something that helps a lot. After the patch when AA works on overheals, using HW with Totem of Misery and Healing way might be preferable, but right now i consider Chain Heal to be the heal best suited for Patchwerk.
On Patchwerk, using chain heal will make sure that any tank that's not at full hp gets healed, even if your primary target gets healed up before your heal lands. In addition, it will help with keeping up the armor buff on all three tanks, something that helps a lot. After the patch when AA works on overheals, using HW with Totem of Misery and Healing way might be preferable, but right now i consider Chain Heal to be the heal best suited for Patchwerk.
I concur with this - I've tried a couple different approaches, and CH spam is the easiest and most effective I've used. You don't get IWS procs, so count on using 3 GCDs (for MT, MST when MT expires, and a mana pot) for regen until you outgear the encounter's mana requirements (which Naxx gear & replenishment will do for you in fairly short order). If you are assigned to 'all three' tanks instead of just one, cycle through them with your chain heal until it becomes clear that one or two are taking more damage than the others, and then focus on them. Heal constantly rather than reactively.
I concur with this - I've tried a couple different approaches, and CH spam is the easiest and most effective I've used. You don't get IWS procs, so count on using 3 GCDs (for MT, MST when MT expires, and a mana pot) for regen until you outgear the encounter's mana requirements (which Naxx gear & replenishment will do for you in fairly short order). If you are assigned to 'all three' tanks instead of just one, cycle through them with your chain heal until it becomes clear that one or two are taking more damage than the others, and then focus on them. Heal constantly rather than reactively.
Weeeeell you see, I am in fact geared in my opinion (only need gloves from 25 maly [have chest], torch, t7.5 head, and the signet of manifested pain and I've pretty much got all best in slot ... and even when switching out my gear and trinkets so that my mana regen is at the highest it can possibly be (around 300 while casting [completely unbuffed, no water shield or buffs whatsoever]) I still manage to go oom while spamming chain heal. I don't know if it's because the dps is too slow or what but I always seem to run out of mana on this fight =/
Weeeeell you see, I am in fact geared in my opinion (only need gloves from 25 maly [have chest], torch, t7.5 head, and the signet of manifested pain and I've pretty much got all best in slot ... and even when switching out my gear and trinkets so that my mana regen is at the highest it can possibly be (around 300 while casting [completely unbuffed, no water shield or buffs whatsoever]) I still manage to go oom while spamming chain heal. I don't know if it's because the dps is too slow or what but I always seem to run out of mana on this fight =/
Your gear is decent, you aren't anywhere near best in slot and your gems are completely confused (yes, your gems are actually confused). But besides that, spamming CH will drain you pretty quick especially if your DPS is taking their time to get the mob down. So spamming CH might not be the best option for you.
Use your CD's wisely and maybe stagger your chains so you aren't quite "spamming." (What I mean is, CH - Riptide - refresh water shield, hang out for a global - chain again if needed - reapply water shield, etc. - just feel out the situation and don't mindlessly spam if it isn't needed and you're tapped for mana).
would you mind explaining how my gems are confused >.>
I dunno, I don't really go oom on any fights that are out there right now with the exception of patchwerk so I figured I might as well gem haste. I've never had good experiences gemming one single thing in each socket such as going with all spell power or crit or intel or anything else so I decided to go with a little bit of everything ...
In your opinion, what would be the best stat to gem? I know it's all fight specific, but overall it would be nice to know what you would gem with.
EDIT: Also, I armory'd you a while back and you had a static 2600 sp, and today i armory'd you and you have a 24k mana pool >.> why do you go to such extremes when using gems?
would you mind explaining how my gems are confused >.>
I dunno, I don't really go oom on any fights that are out there right now with the exception of patchwerk so I figured I might as well gem haste. I've never had good experiences gemming one single thing in each socket such as going with all spell power or crit or intel or anything else so I decided to go with a little bit of everything ...
In your opinion, what would be the best stat to gem? I know it's all fight specific, but overall it would be nice to know what you would gem with.
EDIT: Also, I armory'd you a while back and you had a static 2600 sp, and today i armory'd you and you have a 24k mana pool >.> why do you go to such extremes when using gems?
Different sets of gear, sorry. I don't regem on a whim or anything; I just run different sets. And what I meant by your gems is you're just sort of all over the place. I think in this expansion though there is no ultimate truth to how you should gem and gear. It's quite literally whatever you want to do, but in my opinion, you should stick to some sort of consistent theme.
As far as PW goes - spamming CH is a great method for armor procs on tanks, etc. But if you're running low on mana, don't hesitate to slow it down and let some GCDs go unused to make sure you have something left in the tank for later.
I have been parsing combatlogs from a fair number of shaman and I come up with different gem results depending on the fight, the shaman's gear level, and their spell choices.
I have been parsing combatlogs from a fair number of shaman and I come up with different gem results depending on the fight, the shaman's gear level, and their spell choices.
There does not seem to be a uniform "best" yellow at the top level gear, it seems to depend on the player and fight a lot.
Yeah, absolutely. I literally have 3 sets of gear now and I always seem to migrate back to what I'm using right now - it's just a solid mix of SP / int / haste, etc. It's a hybrid set at its best that pretty much does everything. I have a set that's 2650 sp unbuffed and a haste set that sits near 800 haste - this is just what I prefer, and for the most part, I think with at least naxx/sarth/maly level that's all that really matters.
We'll see what Ulduar hard modes hold but for the most part I'll be using the trend I have going on armory at the moment.
I just wanted to say something on 10-man Sartha 3D. I managed to defeat him with two healers, a druid and me as a resto shaman. And I was healing the sartha tank (which was a feral druid), not the raid. Moreover, I only used LHW on the tank and CH sometimes on the raid when i had the time (when the tank didn't need healing). No mana issues at all. And i really dislike HW, the combo ES + LHW works well.
I thought a resto shaman wasn't enough to keep the raid + drake tank + add tank. That's what I was told anyway. I never tried, so I don't know. You're saying it's not that hard ?
I thought a resto shaman wasn't enough to keep the raid + drake tank + add tank. That's what I was told anyway. I never tried, so I don't know. You're saying it's not that hard ?
I have 2 healed Sarth3d-10 with a disc priest on the DK tanking Sarth, and me healing the drake tank, the add tank, and the raid. I choose to use a lot of healing waves on the drake and add tank in this situation because otherwise I just don't have enough healing output. If you tried doing it with LHW even with glyph and ES on one of the tanks, I just don't think you would have enough hps to keep the tanks up at T7.5 gear levels. I have to pop a mana pot when Shadron hits around 20%, but once Shadron dies healing gets a lot easier and my mana starts going back up again. We have the ret pally and ele shaman heal inside the portal.
As far as "not that hard"? Sarth3d-10 is the hardest fight in the game atm and not an easy fight imo.
If someone has pulled it off using lhw, cheers to them.
I will include here last Saturday's Sarth3d-10 attempts+kill combatlog parse with WWS and shaman_hep 2.01. As a lot of people consider this the hardest fight in the game currently, it may be interesting to look at how people heal it.
WWS (This also includes some attempts at 6 min Maly-10, those are not included in the shaman_hep data below):
04/01/09, 4:39 AM
Similar Threads
