[Resto] Best Practices: PvE Healing Discussion - Page 57

ipitydafool · 09/30/09, 2:09 AM

Originally Posted by TeKniciaN

I would say that the single most important point in the graph is @1378 haste when LHW hits the GCD cap.

The cumulative benefit of haste will tank at that point if you cast LHW as part of your "rotation".

I would definitely consider 1378 as haste "softcap" if you will. Any additional haste will have limited additional benefit as it will no longer affect RT or LHW or any GCD's (shields etc.).

I agree with this post. There is no rotation to healing but that graph showed me that 1378 haste will be when haste stacking becomes obsolete and useless. I doubt we'll reach that kind of haste without a really gimmicky set, but I guess we'll have to see.

What do you guys think of the

[Black Chitin Bracers]

versus the

[Bejeweled Wizard's Bracers]

I'm gathering the orbs atm and wanted to know what others thought. It comes down to the crit versus the mp/5. I was looking at getting the cloth bracers

Mingdu · 09/30/09, 11:19 AM

For hard mode Anub has anyone found Ancestral Awakening to be counter productive?

Gwaihir · 09/30/09, 1:51 PM

I spec out of it for that fight, it's basically entirely counter productive.

Rapparee · 09/30/09, 2:32 PM

Do ancestral awakening procs also have a chance to put earthliving on the person they heal?
We had someone during phase3 of anub hard mode say that earth living was rolling on them.

And thanks for mentioning AA. I'm at work so am unable to verify whether it's doubly damaging by providing the heal + a hot.

Dasteyy · 09/30/09, 4:27 PM

Ok so I just got the 258 version of Solace of the Fallen and now im actually not quite sure which trinket to replace.
Currently I have 3700 spell power raid buffed, 1000 haste, and 42% crit (with talents).
So the trinkets I got are:
Eye of the Broodmother (125 spell power, 87 crit)
Illustration of the Dragon soul (200 spell power)
Solace of the Fallen (168 spell power, 144 mp5)

Not quite sure which 2 to choose but personally I would say the last 2 even though I like the crit from Brood, 75 spell power loss just seems like a lot even though it might be overhealing

Shinwei · 10/01/09, 2:48 PM

Originally Posted by Mingdu

For hard mode Anub has anyone found Ancestral Awakening to be counter productive?

I specced out of it for our first 25m Anub Heroic kill. For the 2nd week myself and the other Resto Shaman in our guild decided that we could still make it happen even with the counter-productive nature of the talent. It didn't help, but it didn't hurt a significant amount either.

Zevyn · 10/01/09, 6:49 PM

Originally Posted by Shinwei

I specced out of it for our first 25m Anub Heroic kill. For the 2nd week myself and the other Resto Shaman in our guild decided that we could still make it happen even with the counter-productive nature of the talent. It didn't help, but it didn't hurt a significant amount either.

Ditto.

Menphisrains · 10/02/09, 8:00 AM

i just wondering about the whole chain heal / haste stacking spammage.

i have 800 haste 3500 spell power 25k mana 37% raid crit with haste / chain heal set. because we have imba druids and priets on the raid aswell as me the healing a pump out can be around 10THPS but only get around 3k effective HPS.

if i regem and go for tank healing i can get 12k THPS but the Effective HPS is around 5k because im getting 24k crits and we soceted and things for tank healing i go up to 29k mana 46% crit only 390haste and 3560 spell power maybe slightly higher the out but from critting healingwave and then ansestrial healing getting the lowest person its pure win. its not realy over heal as its instant and it can also crit. average about 5k anywhere up to 9k also from riptide i think it puts out very powerfull tank healing and also has nice spot / flash heals for raid healing with still a nice amount of haste. any1 agree / disagree with it i can also post you WWS from out thorim hardmode kill and the AA was my 2nd most powerfull heal and very low over heal because my healing wave is critting like every other cast aso making the average 2 casts give my the 500 mana back from watersheild.

Zevyn · 10/02/09, 10:01 AM

I'm not sure what you're point is Menph. Are you saying that Shaman are better suited to tank healing as opposed to raid healing, because of AA?

I would still prefer haste as a tank healer as the stacked stat through gems (most Shaman are maintaining 45% crit raid buffed without going out of their way to get it). I can hit 31k buffed mana with two trinket swaps without touching my other stats (aside from SP, which will go into over heal anyway). Earthshield and LHW glyphs combined with the PvP relic makes a 1.1s LHW pretty slick, but you need to have a good amount of haste to hit that value (around 900-1k?).

Since I personally play secondary to Paladins when I tank heal, I prefer the fast cast of LHW since I'm giving them a buffer and keeping AF up (sometimes on multiple tanks, like on Anub). So RT/LHW's make that easier to maintain.

Using your example of Thorim HM, I think this is a fight that lets you easily hit the top spot on the meter with CH. You can bounce it off the tank into pretty much the entire raid since they increased the range, and the MP5 on CH is great with the WS changes. It's even better if you're using Mind Control and have your heals hasted the entire time.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

That was our most recent kill last night of Thorim. CH is pretty OP on that fight imo.

Suetma · 10/02/09, 10:36 AM

Hi fellow Shams!
I haven't posted here yet, so bear with me.

I've only been playing WOW for about a year and a half, due to time constraints, it took me a while to level this Shaman who is my only lvl 80 toon. I've leveled her resto with a tank-in-pocket, so I'm quite familiar with shaman healing although no expert by any means.
I've been in a casual raiding guild almost the entire time, but recently joined more of a core raiding guild on our realm.

I thought I had a handle on the stat stacking, haste prefered over crit, Int prefered over mp5. At least, that is what I had thought. I'm going to give you unbuffed numbered, since previously, the raid composition constantly changed so it's a little hard to give standards. My haste is 534, crit is 31.59, mp5(with WS) is 446 and SP (with EL) is 2421. My gear is mostly Ulduar 25 or 10, I have a the 2p T8 bonus. I have been raid heals primarily in the casual guild i was in, with tank ES and top offs. I have no idea yet whether I will be primarily tank or raid heals, but I prefer to have my spec somewhat even and effective for either. I'd gotten used to the idea of haste gear set for riptide/lhw and crit for CH but it seems the lines are far more blurred then that.

My question is based more on the fact that some of the theory crafting boggles my mind, but i've read in here that haste has cap points, with the sole purpose of how many various types of heals can be fit into the riptide CD.

1. Can there not be a spec/gear set/stacking idea that is equally as good for both tank and raid healing?
2. If I must "switch" for one role or the other, which stats are more important in combination with which healing spells, for each role?
3. Someone, please explain to me, if the haste caps should be steadfast rule and if haste "chunk" increments should be accompanied by crit+SP+mp5 increments.

I know three simple questions, but tons and tons of information packed into deriving a solution. Im just getting a little lost now with the changes after 3.2. I also find that going from Ulduar, to ToC either in 10 or 25 man, seems to change up the rules somewhat. Where I'm totally effective on ulduar bosses, ToC bosses see other shaman's putting out more and being higher on these "meters" i hate so much.

One last thing, in a tool like recount which I use for the sole purpose of investigating how other shamans heal in comparison to me in conjunction with their healing output compared to mine, what is the actual counter that raid leaders are looking at?

Alright, now you can all chuckle at the noob

But this is how i learn by asking questions.

• Jessamy · 10/02/09, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Suetma

My question is based more on the fact that some of the theory crafting boggles my mind, but i've read in here that haste has cap points, with the sole purpose of how many various types of heals can be fit into the riptide CD.

Haste does have soft cap points, but the number of casts you can fit into a Riptide cooldown isn't that meaningful a thing to measure for a variety of reasons.

Using that metric assumes that you cast Riptide on cooldown, every cooldown, regardless of all other factors, because it's the best possible option for all possible situations. When Riptide is available to cast, I will often choose it. It's a powerful tool and interacts with my other heals. Just because it's available doesn't mean I have to use it, though.

Using that metric also assumes that aside from Riptide, you only cast one other type of heal. As soon as you start mixing LHW, CH, and HW together in response to an actual raid situation (not to mention things like latency, reaction time, moving around, interrupting, purging, hexing, and refreshing shields & totems) it becomes much less precise and the plateau points illustrated in the graph above aren't relevant anymore.

The caps that haste actually has are the various levels of haste that will reduce your global cooldown (and LHW cast time) to 1.0 seconds. The most important haste rating is the one that accounts for moonkin / paladin buff and WoA totem, since those are standard buffs you can expect to have. Bloodlust / Heroism will reduce the rating needed to hit the cap, but you probably won't want to gear for it.

As to how you personally should choose stats to gear for, your best option is to download and use the shaman_hep combatlog parser. It will show you what stats will provide more benefit to the heals you personally cast, in your specific raiding situations. Until you have logs of your own to analyze, you can look at logs other people have posted. My most recent log post, for example, includes logs from two shaman with different healing styles, and shows different stat recommendations for the two.

Daidalos · 10/02/09, 12:30 PM

Suet, I personally don't switch any gear with the situational exception of the hw relic if I know I will be hw bombing enough that oom is a possibility. In gereal even though crit is a little better for hw than ch I haven't found myself making a crit set due to all the raid buffs and talents. I still consider haste superior to crit for tank healing.

Suetma · 10/02/09, 3:23 PM

Originally Posted by Daidalos

Suet, I personally don't switch any gear with the situational exception of the hw relic if I know I will be hw bombing enough that oom is a possibility. In gereal even though crit is a little better for hw than ch I haven't found myself making a crit set due to all the raid buffs and talents. I still consider haste superior to crit for tank healing.

I will definitely try the shaman_hep tool since i've just been trying to analyze my own usage through counters like recount, not very efficient.

Do you find that the same is true for raid healing in current content including ulduar? I want to make sure that I can fill either role, without having to carry two full sets of gear with me, but if it's not possible, i'll gladly carry the gear to get the job done effectively.

Daidalos · 10/02/09, 5:55 PM

My guild no longer runs ulduar but hep weights won't change by so much that you will need 2 full sets unless you go oom all the time casting hw. You can get rid of things like the 4pc t8 bonus and use 2pc 8 and 2pc t9 if you are mostly tank healing but I think it's a good idea to get both sets and see which you like best.

• Jessamy · 10/03/09, 12:08 AM

You can make dramatic changes in your gear just by changing trinkets and relic for certain encounters. Probably you already do this. This should be enough to make you not need separate sets of gear or a second spec for the tank and raid healing roles -- which benefit from similar stats anyway. Changing glyphs can also be a powerful tool. On my server glyphs cost much less than flasks, and the cost decreases to almost nothing if you have a scribe friend or alt.