[Resto] Best Practices: PvE Healing Discussion - Page 87

PDXMarcos · 02/17/10, 6:45 PM

I can confirm that it is a 2 minute cooldown. This means that when used on cooldown it provides ~76 MP5 over a 2 minute time period. If you do happen to pick it up, you can macro the use into your water shield (or any other spell for that matter) for simple refreshing with the following:

#showtooltip
/cast Water Shield
/use Sliver of Pure Ice

The trinket will not activate if you are at full mana, but does not stop you if your mana deficit is less than the total value of the mana proc.

Bustagrove · 02/19/10, 5:44 AM

What about gemming for Haste - Crit. I find myself now with 4 parts tier 10.5 and trauma and all 264 gear that my chain heals are critting 14 -15k and a lot is over heal. So gemming more SP would only make more over healing. Having more crit would make the chain heal Hot have more uptime.

So last night i dropped all my SP - Haste gems to crit and haste i kept my haste at 1260 + and crit raid buffed is around 50%. So with a 10% crit chance inprovment same haste and about 150 - 200 SP less, my effective healing has actually gone up by around 1.2k on most the fights that i compared to last week. PS chain heal HOT is now my 3rd or 4th best healing done. OFC chain heal spamming 3rd if I’m using LHW more often with riptide on CD aswell

Anyone else tried this? Or noticed it.

EDIT from double words!

Bloch · 02/19/10, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Bustagrove

What about gemming for Haste - Crit. I find myself now with 4 parts tier 10.5 and trauma and all 264 gear that my chain heals are critting 14 -15k and a lot is over heal. So gemming more SP would only make more over healing. Having more crit would make the chain heal Hot have more uptime.

So last night i dropped all my SP - Haste gems to crit and haste i kept my haste at 1260 + and crit raid buffed is around 50%. So with a 10% crit chance inprovment same haste and about 150 - 200 SP less, my effective healing has actually gone up by around 1.2k on most the fights that i compared to last week. PS chain heal HOT is now my 3rd or 4th best healing done. OFC chain heal spamming 3rd if I’m using LHW more often with riptide on CD aswell

Anyone else tried this? Or noticed it.

EDIT from double words!

Couple quick questions:
1. Crit/haste gems? Do you mean +sp/+crit gems in place of +sp/+haste gems OR +crit gems in place of +haste gems
2. 10% more crit at the cost of only 200 sp?

That being said, I'm not sure if gemming crit is the way to go--it might just be that we should place a higher value on crit than we do mp5 and sp when selecting upgrades and gear. Most shaman in 264 gear are already sporting about ~40% crit from gear and talents alone, which increases to about ~45-50% with raid buffs. Realistically, that means 1/2 of our chain heal hits are critting, which is pretty good.

On a CH-spammy fight (BQL, Putricide P3), I'm not sure the healing gained from the CH HoT is sufficient to outweigh the value gained from more haste.

JVerbit · 02/19/10, 1:45 PM

Bustagrove's original concern I believe was with overhealing when adding more +SP and optioning for +crit and +haste gems in place of +SP.

Around the 1200-or-so haste range, from what Bustagrove is stating and after looking at his gear, it sounds like he benefited more from haste. The EW proc + set 4 T10 bonus will benefit more from haste and crit...more haste means faster heals and more crit means more procs of the set 4 bonus (as well as Ancestrial Awakening).

But the original concern about overhealing, with Ancestrial Awakening and chain heal and EW being relatively smart heals, may also benefit from the haste gemming in AoE healing fights and phases too. But was there a difference in your overhealing Bustagrove?

Bleuchz · 02/22/10, 11:16 AM

I've been looking around for an answer elsewhere but haven't found one yet: Has it been confirmed if Trauma will proc off the T10 4p HoT?

Chanek · 02/22/10, 8:43 PM

It does yes Bleuchz. Also procs off Riptide ticks.

Also, if anyone for some reason is interested in seeing it in non-theoretical action, heres what it looks like. (And yes the combat text is horrible and ugly, only had it on for the purpose of the screenshot!)

Bustagrove · 02/23/10, 5:21 AM

Originally Posted by JVerbit

Bustagrove's original concern I believe was with overhealing when adding more +SP and optioning for +crit and +haste gems in place of +SP.

Around the 1200-or-so haste range, from what Bustagrove is stating and after looking at his gear, it sounds like he benefited more from haste. The EW proc + set 4 T10 bonus will benefit more from haste and crit...more haste means faster heals and more crit means more procs of the set 4 bonus (as well as Ancestrial Awakening).

But the original concern about overhealing, with Ancestrial Awakening and chain heal and EW being relatively smart heals, may also benefit from the haste gemming in AoE healing fights and phases too. But was there a difference in your overhealing Bustagrove?

Sorry for the confusion, Its exactly what i meant more SP for me just makes more over healing on the chain heals. So changing SP gems to Crit seemed to give better results for effective healing especially from CH HOT. Now I’ve changed i can get about 59% crit raid buffed with 1200 haste and I’m seeing a big difference from the HOT uptime and A lot more chain heal jump crits. Very nice for BQL i also love trauma. The proc is not massive but its effective heal on a 'aura; fight is very nice. Festurgut for example im spamming the tank which is also hitting melee and trauma actually did 19% healing and 12% effective healing so its again very nice.

Another thing it might be my Combat Txt addon playing up, Trauma proced off Earthen Sheild? Has anyone else had this?

Brisnger · 02/23/10, 6:54 AM

In regards to your concerns about the 251 RT totem,

Yes having to build up to three stacks with RT and making sure that the stack doesn't fall off is slightly a hinderance but I think the biggest problem with this RT totem is having to waste a GCD just to keep it stacked, whereas you could be casting a CH or something. In heavey AoE fights i doubt will be using my 245 totem.

Fnurgle · 02/23/10, 10:29 AM

And the biggest problem with the CH totem is that you have to waste a cast on CH to re-apply the spellpower buff. Use the one that fits the encounter best. Hell, you can even swap them in combat, unlike most of the other gear adjustments you can do. On Lich King, i use both, swapping between every phase as I run to/from the edge, since the healing requirements are so diverse. Both are good investments, and neither is optimal in all encounters/assignments.

Krustyclown · 02/23/10, 5:58 PM

You raise an interesting point Bustagrove, as I too have also noticed that additional SP mostly goes into overhealing, which begs the question, could there be a soft SP cap for resto shaman? And if so, at what point do we start to see diminishing returns? I could see how the earthliving HOT plus the HOT from the T10-4 peice set bonus might actually make +crit more valuable than originally thought (assuming T10-4 peice bonus + soft haste capped + soft SP cap).

MegaVolt · 02/24/10, 6:48 AM

Why would you assume that the overheal you get from a more frequent HoT is smaller than the overheal you get from a bigger smart heal like CH?
It is pretty obvious that HoTs will generally overheal more than direct heals and especially more than direct smart heals.

Generally I think worrying about overheal is the wrong thing to do. If you just get more overheal it means that you throughput is more than sufficient for the content you are raiding. Which means that you are either fully ICC HC geared or that you are raiding easy content. When doing easy fights it just doesn't matter what stat you stack, it's easy anyway.
As soon as you enter an encounter in which your throughput is challenged your overheal will drop and that's what you should gear for. Making gear decisions based on the requirements of farm fights is imo a bad idea.

Zogar · 02/24/10, 10:43 AM

I'm confused about this new sp vs crit debate. For one thing I thought there was no definite proof that haste was still not the best stat to go for once you reach the haste soft cap.

I've not yet seen a single shaman hep report that concludes that sp is better than haste, even for 1400+ haste rating shamans, and the 3 end wing bosses in ICC are heavy aoe fights where CH (and haste stacking) are the best by far. Only Arthas is different, and CH is still useful.

If anything it should be a haste vs crit debate, not a sp vs crit one. Could you explain why you decided to drop haste stacking for sp stacking (i'm talking about 25-man raids) ?

PDXMarcos · 02/24/10, 12:18 PM

The debate isn't whether Crit or SP > Haste, haste is still the best stat, but rather it's a metric of Haste > Crit > SP or Haste > SP > Crit.

Sylves · 02/24/10, 1:56 PM

I just wanted to add something to the "how much does Chain Heal Hot overheal compared to the actual Chain Heal" conversation.

From our Festergut kill last night, my logs show the following:
Chain Heal-51.6% Overhealing
Chain Heal Hot-54.8% Overhealing

Now granted, I was one of the tank healers and using him as a CH beacon to heal the melee as well so overhealing is a bit higher than normal.

For a fight with less AOE damage, lets look at Marrowgar:
Chain Heal-54.9% Overhealing
Chain Heal Hot-73.7% Overhealing

It's pretty evident that this 4 set bonus is a situational use bonus. Fights like Festergut and Blood Queen are going to make great use of this bonus while others will not. The nice thing is the bonus does not really take anything away, even if you have a higher overhealing %. Those hots just might save someone. It is free healing. The only time I could see a Shammy swap items out is for MT/Single target spot healing.

Zogar · 02/24/10, 2:11 PM

Originally Posted by Bustagrove

So last night i dropped all my SP - Haste gems to crit and haste i kept my haste at 1260 + and crit raid buffed is around 50%. So with a 10% crit chance inprovment same haste and about 150 - 200 SP less, my effective healing has actually gone up by around 1.2k on most the fights that i compared to last week.

He had several sp-haste gems, which he shouldn't have if he stacked haste only. You need only one for the metagem. Maybe he intentionally chose to compare sp with crit, removing pure haste gems, but that's not what I understand from his different posts.

As a side note, once you stack haste, you have no room to adjust your values of sp or crit. There is sp on every item, and you can't decide to take an item that has more crit and less sp. There are no crit trinkets interesting for healers, no crit flasks, no crit enchantments (you only have choice between crit and mp5), you should take haste food, and you cannot even use the metagem requirements to increase one of the stats over the other since the colors of the gems are different. The metrics of crit vs sp are just not relevant once haste is the best stat.