[Resto] Best Practices: PvE Healing Discussion - Page 93

Zoraku · 03/24/10, 2:36 PM

Originally Posted by Zibary

greetings resto shaman community!

long time lurker, infrequent poster...i lead a 25-man hard-mode guild (3/12) and our current healing roster has us stuck at 1 holy paladin for a while now. so, i have been stepping into the role of full-time tank healer to which i find my current theorycraft/gear-choices inadequate for the task. i'm either running low on mana way to early or i am not putting out enough HPS to keep the tanks safe...

i think my choices are (1) swap out my mostly haste gems for intellect and rely on tidal waves and 2pc bonus to keep HS relatively hasted (and cast nothing but healing wave) or (2) swap out my mostly haste gems for spellpower or maybe spellpower/crit gems, use the glyph of lesser healing wave, put earth shield on my current healing target and just spam lesser healing wave (basically, i would either mimic what a holy light paladin does or a flash of light paladin does).

what i was wondering if there were players in a similar position as myself and had already done some testing to see which route is better...i am planning on doing this testing myself starting with this raid reset, but i was looking for some outside info (armory + parses) so I would have a better chance at success and helping my guild finish off some additional hard-modes without too much on-the-job-training so to speak.

i guess a tangential question should be -- is this even possible? can i change around enough gems/gear to make myself into something close to a paladin tank healer? obviously, my third option is to recruit an additional holy paladin and believe me i am working on it. but until then, i need to see if i can fill in for a tank healer.

thanks in advance from those brave souls who have already made some progress in this area.

btw, i am probably going to try stacking spellpower or spw/crit for an LHW build and see how that goes. i fear it might not have the throughput i need but...

We frequently run with only 1 paladin in heroic modes also, except for a few specific fights, and I find myself MT healing very often. As for mana issues, always use a mana potion and make sure you mana tide as soon as you are low enough on mana that the tide will bring you back to 100%. The sooner you mana tide, the better chance you will use it a 2nd time before the fight is over, and a mana tide at the end of a fight when you are searching for mana is very helpful. I usually get 1 or 2 innervates if needed and I also have my priests rotate divine hymns twoards the end of fights to help keep my mana from dipping too low.

For my healing rotation on tanks I always keep riptide up and almost always am using HW. Depending on the fight I may riptide then chain heal the tank to bounce a few heals to the melee and occasionally if I need a few quick heals I will use LHW. I stack all 20 haste gems and in a few slots lately I have been putting 12sp/10haste since I am sitting at around 1250 haste unbuffed. But honestly, mana is rarely ever an issue and if it is your dps is either too slow or the other healers aren't putting out enough healing, just my opinion though.

• Shifft · 03/24/10, 4:01 PM

You say that mana is rarely an issue and yet in the same post you say you get 1-2 innervates per fight and hymn of hope (I assume you mean hymn of hope and not divine hymn) rotations. In most raids that would not be acceptable as innervates would be going to mages and priests probably wouldn't be channeling hymn of hope if they could help it.

Zoraku · 03/24/10, 6:31 PM

Originally Posted by Shifft

You say that mana is rarely an issue and yet in the same post you say you get 1-2 innervates per fight and hymn of hope (I assume you mean hymn of hope and not divine hymn) rotations. In most raids that would not be acceptable as innervates would be going to mages and priests probably wouldn't be channeling hymn of hope if they could help it.

Well I do agree, my statement is a little hypocritcal. We usually run with 2 mages and 1 holy priest both in my group for mana tide. The mages and/or priests usually get the early innervates and at the end of the fight is when I will call out for one. Yes I mean whichever hymn gives mana. So I do suppose if I got 0 innervates then I would have to lessen the HW spam. I would say if you had to regem, I believe there is an mp5/haste gem that wouldn't be a bad idea.

Darbycrash · 03/24/10, 7:41 PM

Confirmed that BQL's Aura no longer procs Water Shield.

LITTLER0TT · 03/25/10, 1:18 AM

I felt that the removal of BQL procing water shield made the fight easier. I wasn't having mana problems to begin with. All it was doing was making me have to reapply water shield all the time.

Our raid setup is Hpally, Hpally, Rdruid, Priest(holy or disc), and Me. Any time I tide I generally get hymn on top to make the mana return greater. Innervates are given to who ever ends up needing it most. (such as a healer getting brezed).

I can honestly say the only fight I have any real mana problems on is Festergut hard, but that is because I end up mashing HW on the tank.

Asat · 03/25/10, 1:43 AM

Originally Posted by LITTLER0TT

I felt that the removal of BQL procing water shield made the first easier. I wasn't having mana problems to begin with. All it was doing was making me have to reapply water shield all the time.

I don't think it's fair to say that it's easier now. If you were not having mana issues before the change then there was no reason to waste a gcd refreshing water shield, the aura procing it has no real drawback. With the change there are sure to be shamans who don't have a setup as good as yours who will have mana troubles.

stassart · 03/25/10, 4:54 AM

Originally Posted by Asat

I don't think it's fair to say that it's easier now. If you were not having mana issues before the change then there was no reason to waste a gcd refreshing water shield, the aura procing it has no real drawback. With the change there are sure to be shamans who don't have a setup as good as yours who will have mana troubles.

I like the change too. I agree with LITTLER0TT and believe it makes the fight easier. Before you had to cast water shield quite often otherwise you would go oom, but if you did it really often you had infinite mana. I thought managing when to refresh it made healing that fight harder.

Having infinite mana while refreshing does not mean that you would be fine on mana if you didn't refresh it, resto shaman go oom very quickly without improved water shield procs.

LITTLER0TT · 03/25/10, 8:05 AM

Exactly what stassart said. Occasionally I would realize I had too much mana and just stop refreshing it, but then I would have to watch my mana like a hawk and refresh it at the right time. It made the fight interesting but in an annoying way.

Also I don't exactly have an amazing set up (unless you are talking about my gear and not group comp)

Darbycrash · 03/25/10, 12:09 PM

Our best healing setup for heroic 25 man BQL is 1Hpally, 2Rshams, 2Rdruids, 1DP. We found that if we drop a sham, and gain another holy pally that things got very unstable.

Zibary · 03/25/10, 1:39 PM

Originally Posted by Zoraku

We frequently run with only 1 paladin in heroic modes also, except for a few specific fights, and I find myself MT healing very often. As for mana issues, always use a mana potion and make sure you mana tide as soon as you are low enough on mana that the tide will bring you back to 100%. The sooner you mana tide, the better chance you will use it a 2nd time before the fight is over, and a mana tide at the end of a fight when you are searching for mana is very helpful. I usually get 1 or 2 innervates if needed and I also have my priests rotate divine hymns twoards the end of fights to help keep my mana from dipping too low.

For my healing rotation on tanks I always keep riptide up and almost always am using HW. Depending on the fight I may riptide then chain heal the tank to bounce a few heals to the melee and occasionally if I need a few quick heals I will use LHW. I stack all 20 haste gems and in a few slots lately I have been putting 12sp/10haste since I am sitting at around 1250 haste unbuffed. But honestly, mana is rarely ever an issue and if it is your dps is either too slow or the other healers aren't putting out enough healing, just my opinion though.

Zoraku, thanks for offering up some information. Basically, you are not making sweeping gear changes and relying on Healing Wave hasted via Tidal Waves to keep up your healing throughput on the tanks. If you had a link to your armory or even logs, I would be most appreciative so that I could further compare. Again, thanks for the info.

Meoses · 03/26/10, 11:47 AM

Quick question about proffs:

I am currently Alch/JC, but the bonus from Alchemy don't scale all that well, and while it is great having the Crazy Alch pots and mixology, I think it's time to move on. So the question becomes: BS or Eng?

BS obviously gives the highest raw haste increase, however I feel that Eng has some great intangibles (Haste buff every min, rocket boots..etc.) that may offset the raw haste, since haste is a stat you can always achieve other ways.

I have a sneaky suspicion that it will break down to a nominal difference either way is just up to your personal preference.

Any thoughts?

LITTLER0TT · 03/26/10, 12:04 PM

Rocket boots help out a LOT in some scenarios. Gas cloud kiting on heroic Putricide for instance. We have had several wipes avoided by some engineer rocket booting when the slow falls off a gas cloud.

Though rocket boots aside, I've never liked on use hps increases(hyperspeed accelerators).

If I wasn't obsessed with [Gordok Ogre Suit] I'd definitely drop Leatherworking for engineering.

Zibary · 03/26/10, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Meoses

Quick question about proffs:

I am currently Alch/JC, but the bonus from Alchemy don't scale all that well, and while it is great having the Crazy Alch pots and mixology, I think it's time to move on. So the question becomes: BS or Eng?

BS obviously gives the highest raw haste increase, however I feel that Eng has some great intangibles (Haste buff every min, rocket boots..etc.) that may offset the raw haste, since haste is a stat you can always achieve other ways.

I have a sneaky suspicion that it will break down to a nominal difference either way is just up to your personal preference.

Any thoughts?

perhaps i am missing something, but the bonuses from those other professions are fixed as well (i.e. not scaling). So I am not sure what you mean by "not scaling all that well". they aren't meant to scale. as your gear item level increases, the bonuses from professions all scale down because they are fixed bonuses. If I am wrong, and there is a profession that adds a % increase to something or a fixed value, let me know!

now, that's not say that the merits of one set of professional bonuses doesn't outweigh those from another profession. The glove enchant from Engineering is certainly very snazy. Personally, I prefer the flexibility of Alchemy. Relatively cheaply, I can boost my spell power, MP5 or even haste just by quaffing a different elixir or flask. I use BS as my secondary just because I knew I was going to be too lazy to be a good JC.

Zigizi · 03/26/10, 1:42 PM

Originally Posted by Zibary

perhaps i am missing something, but the bonuses from those other professions are fixed as well (i.e. not scaling). So I am not sure what you mean by "not scaling all that well". they aren't meant to scale. as your gear item level increases, the bonuses from professions all scale down because they are fixed bonuses. If I am wrong, and there is a profession that adds a % increase to something or a fixed value, let me know!

I think that he means that the best bonus you can get with Alchemy is spell power, which has not scaled as a stat as well as haste for resto shaman. The most haste you can get out of the Alchemy elixir bonus is 20, which is far eclipsed by Blacksmithing, which should net you 40 haste.

• Shifft · 03/26/10, 3:54 PM

Alchemy is pretty valuable because you get a bonus to [Lesser Flask of Resistance], same reason leatherworking is also a great profession. Honestly there are hardly any times that an extra bit of haste or spellpower will save people, but resistance flasks/enchants are great for most of the hard encounters in ICC heroic.