[Elemental] 3.1 PTR changes and testing - Page 17

Shkarn · 04/01/09, 7:03 PM

You'll only need that much hit if you don't have a SPriest or Moonkin. If you can guarantee one of those, you can redo your best in slot listing to have a lower hit requirement and in return, more spellpower/haste/crit.

Agash · 04/01/09, 7:24 PM

Originally Posted by Ezareth

First I don't understand where you are getting 37.5% Haste. Not saying you are wrong but my BIS Ulduar gear shows 618Haste Rating which is 18.84 % Haste. Multiply 1.1884*1.03*1.05 and you get 1.285 or 28.5% Haste which from my understanding is our BIS ulduar haste.

Now Lightning Bolt is going to be 1.56 cast time and CL will be 1.17.

This is going to give us 7.41 seconds of casting using a 4 LB + a 1 1.5 cast time spell rotation between lava burst. With latency on 5 spells I'd say it is within tolerance of .59 seconds.

Even in your example lets say we use 4 LB + 2 1.5 spells between each rotation. This works out to 8.58 seconds between lava burst.

Now lets say latency isn't present for a perfect scenario. I'd say the perfect rotation at 28.5% Haste in this case would be FS>LvB>LB*5>LvB>LB*4>CL>FS

This gives us a perfect 8 seconds between Lava burst on the first rotation and 8.74 seconds on the second portion of the rotation.

Also are you including the 8% damage Tier 8 bonus to lightning in your calculations?

The 37.5% haste was a hypothetical figure in response to a previous post (#227) suggesting that that haste required for the next perfectly balanced rotation (both halves equal) was 43.75%. In my response I indicated that there was one sooner but also went so far as to say:

That's 27.14% from gear = 890 rating. I suspect this is still too much to aim for from Ulduar gear and aiming for it would sacrifice too much in other stats. However, it is a little less ambitious a requirement for T9 content.

And yes, I did include for the 8% from the T8 bonus.

Memphis2k · 04/01/09, 8:53 PM

Originally Posted by Shkarn

You'll only need that much hit if you don't have a SPriest or Moonkin. If you can guarantee one of those, you can redo your best in slot listing to have a lower hit requirement and in return, more spellpower/haste/crit.

Vari 2:

T8 Chest and Legs = if you dont use the Ele Head and change one of this items you dont get the 4 boni
Drape of Mortal Downfall = Best Cape in Ulduar
Frozen Loop = The Ring has Spelldmg haste and Hit, other rings are crap because they have will or mp5
Pendant of Fiery Havoc = Best Necklace in Ulduar
Sash of Ancient Power = Best Girdle if dont use The Ele head
Icwalker = There is not a other better entchant

We have an Shadow and a owl. So What Items do you mean i should use? I checked all known items and i think there are the best. You can change the Cloth girdle with the mail girdle , but so you lost 39 Spell power and 41 hit, you get 12 haste and 49 Crit, but you must gem a 16 hit so you have 291 hit. More Crit for what. The Spelldmg lost is a bigger problem for me here. Or not?

Another option is, gem 16 hit in the cloth girdle and kick Frozen loop out an use the Kel Ring + Pyrelight Circle . So you Have 286 Hit. Here You Lost 19 Spellpower but you get 46 Crit. That current a better choice.

Ezareth · 04/02/09, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Memphis2k

Vari 2:

T8 Chest and Legs = if you dont use the Ele Head and change one of this items you dont get the 4 boni
Drape of Mortal Downfall = Best Cape in Ulduar
Frozen Loop = The Ring has Spelldmg haste and Hit, other rings are crap because they have will or mp5
Pendant of Fiery Havoc = Best Necklace in Ulduar
Sash of Ancient Power = Best Girdle if dont use The Ele head
Icwalker = There is not a other better entchant

We have an Shadow and a owl. So What Items do you mean i should use? I checked all known items and i think there are the best. You can change the Cloth girdle with the mail girdle , but so you lost 39 Spell power and 41 hit, you get 12 haste and 49 Crit, but you must gem a 16 hit so you have 291 hit. More Crit for what. The Spelldmg lost is a bigger problem for me here. Or not?

Another option is, gem 16 hit in the cloth girdle and kick Frozen loop out an use the Kel Ring + Pyrelight Circle . So you Have 286 Hit. Here You Lost 19 Spellpower but you get 46 Crit. That current a better choice.

First, using the mail girdle over the cloth wouldn't lose you 39 spellpower, you'd lose 20 spellpower, 41 hit, and 4 int for
49 Crit, and 13 haste which is acceptable when you have too much hit and no other options on what to drop to make up for it....that isn't counting the fact is you're guaranteed to get the first mail belt that drops, but odds are you'd only get the cloth belt after your cloth casters had it.

Memphis2k · 04/02/09, 1:56 PM

Originally Posted by Ezareth

First, using the mail girdle over the cloth wouldn't lose you 39 spellpower, you'd lose 20 spellpower, 41 hit, and 4 int for
49 Crit, and 13 haste which is acceptable when you have too much hit and no other options on what to drop to make up for it....that isn't counting the fact is you're guaranteed to get the first mail belt that drops, but odds are you'd only get the cloth belt after your cloth casters had it.

No one says that you get all the items on the first or secound week of raiding. I only want know whats the perfect end gear ist. That i dont get the cloth girdle after the cloth caster is also not correct. we have Item table and when i am saying i want the girdle, means not that iam on the last spot of this table. Dkp is a stupid system.

Your calculus of Girdle vs. Girdle is not correct. The Cloth Girdle has 2 Gem Slots + 1 from Eternal Belt Buckle. 3 19 Spell Dmg Gems + 81 from the girdle makes 138. If you make the cloth girdle out you lost 43 hit. Now you have 316 -43 = 273. So the Mail Girdle has no Gem slot only the Eternal Belt Buckle. But You have only 273 Hit so you must gem a 16 hit gem to get the Hitcap of 289, also the Mail girdle got only 99 Spellpower. So 138 Spell power - 99 Spellpower = 39 I dont know how you get the Minus 20 Spellpower.

BUt how iam writing in my post bevor this is aonther choice and a better i think:

gem 16 hit in the cloth girdle and kick Frozen loop out an use the Kel Ring + Pyrelight Circle . So you Have 286 Hit. Here You Lost 19 Spellpower but you get 46 Crit. That current a better choice.

Chaser · 04/02/09, 3:43 PM

Originally Posted by Ezareth

First, using the mail girdle over the cloth wouldn't lose you 39 spellpower, you'd lose 20 spellpower, 41 hit, and 4 int for
49 Crit, and 13 haste which is acceptable when you have too much hit and no other options on what to drop to make up for it....that isn't counting the fact is you're guaranteed to get the first mail belt that drops, but odds are you'd only get the cloth belt after your cloth casters had it.

Originally Posted by Memphis2k

No one says that you get all the items on the first or secound week of raiding. I only want know whats the perfect end gear ist. That i dont get the cloth girdle after the cloth caster is also not correct. we have Item table and when i am saying i want the girdle, means not that iam on the last spot of this table. Dkp is a stupid system.

Your calculus of Girdle vs. Girdle is not correct. The Cloth Girdle has 2 Gem Slots + 1 from Eternal Belt Buckle. 3 19 Spell Dmg Gems + 81 from the girdle makes 138. If you make the cloth girdle out you lost 43 hit. Now you have 316 -43 = 273. So the Mail Girdle has no Gem slot only the Eternal Belt Buckle. But You have only 273 Hit so you must gem a 16 hit gem to get the Hitcap of 289, also the Mail girdle got only 99 Spellpower. So 138 Spell power - 99 Spellpower = 39 I dont know how you get the Minus 20 Spellpower.

BUt how iam writing in my post bevor this is aonther choice and a better i think:

gem 16 hit in the cloth girdle and kick Frozen loop out an use the Kel Ring + Pyrelight Circle . So you Have 286 Hit. Here You Lost 19 Spellpower but you get 46 Crit. That current a better choice.

Pattern: Sash of Ancient Power

It's a pattern. Unless the Ulduar mats are really difficult to obtain, it's an item that shouldn't be much of a problem to acquire for ele shamans.

Also, Ezareth is right. It's 20 spellpower, provided you aren't a JC. If you're a JC it's actually something like 22 spellpower.

Explanation :

The cloth belt has a blue and red socket. You slap a +19 spell power in the red one. Now you're at 100 spellpower for hte cloth belt, and 99 for the mail belt. Add another +19 spell power gem to the mix and you're at 19+1 = 20 more spellpower for the cloth belt.

If you are a JC it does change things though. Personally I'd definately go for a prismatic in that slot to get the +7 spellpower bonus. The next best option was the ilevel 239 bracers which had a +5 sp bonus. So you're gaining another 2 spellpower with the the prismatic in the belt instead of the bracers.

Now.. since you went with the belt, you don't have to get frozen loop, so you can get pyrelight + manifested pain. So you don't actually lose any crit with the belt, so doesn't matter.

Cloth belt is the best choice.

Memphis2k · 04/02/09, 3:53 PM

Originally Posted by Chaser

Pattern: Sash of Ancient Power

It's a pattern. Unless the Ulduar mats are really difficult to obtain, it's an item that shouldn't be much of a problem to acquire for ele shamans.

Also, Ezareth is right. It's 20 spellpower, provided you aren't a JC. If you're a JC it's actually something like 22 spellpower.

Cloth belt is the best choice.

If You are an Jc you use your 3 Prisma in T8 Items because 2 blue Sockets and 1 Yellow in chest and legs and there are also +14 Spelldmg for correct sockets.

Add another +19 spell power gem to the mix and you're at 19+1 = 20 more spellpower for the cloth belt.

+ Eternal Belt Buckle another 19 Spellpower gem makes 39 not 20

So The Cloth Girdle has 2 Sockets and the Mail Girdle has nothing. Dont You Use a Eternal Belt Buckle? So the cloth Girdle has THREE sockest and the Mail Girdle ONE. But if you choose the Mail Girdle you LOST 41 hit so YOU have only 275 hit. You socket in the Mail girdle a 16 hit gem and THREE 19 Spellpower gems in the cloth Girdle. Your are right with cloth + 1 19 Spell power you get 100 Spellpower, but what is with the other 2 19 spellpower gems? To correct me if i wrong

Ps:Your calculation make only sense. if you socket in the cloth Belt 2 19 Spellpower and one 16 hit AND kick out the froozen loop. Iam right? If this matter then i must say sry but i think i dont read exactly this somewhere .

Pss: As JC You can Make the 16 hit gem in Yellow Slot of the Chest and do the Prisma in the Blue socket of the Resto Head, so you got +9 Spell dmg(i just see it even) and do 3 19 spell dmg in the cloth girdle

--------------------

Psss:

So i make a 3 . Variant and i dont know but this is lower then variant 2:

Resto head,T8 4pc ELe,Sash of Ancient Power,Boots of Fiery Resolution,Drape of Mortal Downfall,
Pyrelight Circle and Signet of Manifested Pain,Flare of the Heavens, Pendant of Fiery Havoc,Voice of reason

Spell 115(32+9) 115(32+7) 90(19) 115(32+19+7) 90(19) 81(19+19+19) 102(19+19) 550 75(19) 74 74 75(19) 74 = 1939
Crit 60 48 76 57 43 46 46 120 46 (16 Icewalker) = 558
Haste 59 75 57 48 49 55 49 36 36 41 31 = 536
Hit 60(16) (4) 60 43 41 46 (16 Icewalker)= 286

Fokui · 04/02/09, 8:59 PM

Nice so your saying with this new gear set ill be losing Spell power and a little haste to gain a minor amount of crit? Sounds Awesome.

Im sure better options will show when ulduar is released, or at least i hope.

Starcrossed · 04/02/09, 9:51 PM

Originally Posted by Memphis2k

Hit 60(16) (4) 60 43 41 46 (16 Icewalker)= 286

W/the DK's Improved Unholy Presence no longer affecting the raid, you will likely want to add a run speed enchant to your boots (rather than Icewalker). With encounters such as Hodir and Iron Council (esp. w/Overload and the green Rune), run speed will be rather important.

Gorb · 04/02/09, 11:17 PM

EDIT - Nevermind

Ezareth · 04/02/09, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Memphis2k

If You are an Jc you use your 3 Prisma in T8 Items because 2 blue Sockets and 1 Yellow in chest and legs and there are also +14 Spelldmg for correct sockets.

+ Eternal Belt Buckle another 19 Spellpower gem makes 39 not 20

So The Cloth Girdle has 2 Sockets and the Mail Girdle has nothing. Dont You Use a Eternal Belt Buckle? So the cloth Girdle has THREE sockest and the Mail Girdle ONE. But if you choose the Mail Girdle you LOST 41 hit so YOU have only 275 hit. You socket in the Mail girdle a 16 hit gem and THREE 19 Spellpower gems in the cloth Girdle. Your are right with cloth + 1 19 Spell power you get 100 Spellpower, but what is with the other 2 19 spellpower gems? To correct me if i wrong

Ps:Your calculation make only sense. if you socket in the cloth Belt 2 19 Spellpower and one 16 hit AND kick out the froozen loop. Iam right? If this matter then i must say sry but i think i dont read exactly this somewhere .

Pss: As JC You can Make the 16 hit gem in Yellow Slot of the Chest and do the Prisma in the Blue socket of the Resto Head, so you got +9 Spell dmg(i just see it even) and do 3 19 spell dmg in the cloth girdle

Tha mail girdle has 18 more spellpower than the cloth in base stats. 2 Gems with 19 SP = 38. 38-19= 20. What I originally said was correct. You aren't getting the socket bonus or if you do it will cost you one with another item. You are going to use your three prismatics on the helm, chest, and legs for a total of 23 SP from socket bonuses.

Remember you want to leave yourself enough below the hitcap to be able to use three yellow socket bonuses, (Neck, Chest and Cloak).

My gearing setup has 293 hit, with all gear getting the set bonuses without sacrificing anything.

The mail belt is also guaranteed the first drop. Sure you could get the cloth belt too if you want it, but it would help your guild out more to give it to them first and you take the belt only you can use. I'd rather "spend" whatever gives me loot on things I HAVE to fight with other people for, like Flare of the Heavens or Guiding Star.

Memphis2k · 04/03/09, 5:09 AM

Can you send me per private mail your itemlist? I want to compare my list with your in order to look whats better.

The Cloth girdle is not a problem because its a pattern. You need 10 Spellweave and 10 Shadowweave and 6 orbs they you can buy at vendors for Ulduar Raid emblems.

Ezareth · 04/03/09, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Memphis2k

Can you send me per private mail your itemlist? I want to compare my list with your in order to look whats better.

The Cloth girdle is not a problem because its a pattern. You need 10 Spellweave and 10 Shadowweave and 6 orbs they you can buy at vendors for Ulduar Raid emblems.

True getting the cloth belt may not be an issue at all, I'm just saying we have little options when chosing *other* gear that doesn't include either hit, MP5, or spirit, and as I said ultimately filling yellow slots with SP/Hit gems to reach cap would be preferable to hit our yellow socket bonuses, not using hit gems leaves us with inferior choices for yellows.

Item List

I also would like to bring up the Tailoring change, I haven't seen anyone mention it so far but it deserves merit.

Basically they change Lightweave to a 250 SP proc with a 45 second internal cooldown and a 50% proc chance which makes it worst case 75 Spellpower over our normal 23 Haste Enchant.

I'm going to drop Enchanting for Tailoring if this goes live as it is, because ultimately I want to keep my haste levels as low as possible so I don't have to worry about "wait times" on lava burst.

Fokui · 04/03/09, 1:33 PM

I don't see why everyone bases they're haste levels on tank & spank fights like patchwerk, come Ulduar there are going to be fights where your actually mobile from what im seeing so haste doesn't lose its value even at black zones like bink was talking about.

Tarwin · 04/03/09, 6:28 PM

Originally Posted by Fokui

I don't see why everyone bases they're haste levels on tank & spank fights like patchwerk, come Ulduar there are going to be fights where your actually mobile from what im seeing so haste doesn't lose its value even at black zones like bink was talking about.

There are still going to be burn periods, whether it be on adds or the boss, where we need to maximize our dps in any way possible, and if the math shows that there are black zones for haste in certain areas, then avoiding bink's black zones is one of those ways. Shaving off an extra 3% to 4% of 2 second cast while running around is not going to increase your dps enough to warrant gaps in a burn phase, assuming it increases your dps at all.