[Elemental] 3.1 PTR changes and testing - Page 18

Memphis2k · 04/03/09, 7:59 PM

Originally Posted by Ezareth

True getting the cloth belt may not be an issue at all, I'm just saying we have little options when chosing *other* gear that doesn't include either hit, MP5, or spirit, and as I said ultimately filling yellow slots with SP/Hit gems to reach cap would be preferable to hit our yellow socket bonuses, not using hit gems leaves us with inferior choices for yellows.

Item List

I also would like to bring up the Tailoring change, I haven't seen anyone mention it so far but it deserves merit.

Basically they change Lightweave to a 250 SP proc with a 45 second internal cooldown and a 50% proc chance which makes it worst case 75 Spellpower over our normal 23 Haste Enchant.

I'm going to drop Enchanting for Tailoring if this goes live as it is, because ultimately I want to keep my haste levels as low as possible so I don't have to worry about "wait times" on lava burst.

Big Thx man, the only mistake i found you used the old t8 set with higher stats on it. Now i have to something to go on with my gear. =)

Ezareth · 04/03/09, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by Memphis2k

Big Thx man, the only mistake i found you used the old t8 set with higher stats on it. Now i have to something to go on with my gear. =)

All of the stats should be correct. I include any socket bonuses on gear with proper socketed gems in that items base stats which is what you could be seeing.

Tormirian · 04/05/09, 5:53 AM

I'm still thinking about weapon. Someone said the best combo should be Voice of Reason (74) + Guiding Star (550) + Enchant (63), thats 687 SP. But I'm thinking about taking Staff of Endless Winter (587) + Enchant (81) so thats 668.
But Staff has aslo 2x blue sockets, so if you socket it with 2x 19 SP gem so you have 706 SP. With new Flametongue enchant (Bonus damage from spell power now based on weapon speed. Slower weapons will benefit more from spell power) which should add (just my tip) around +20 SP compares to Guiding Star.
I believe Staff of Endeless Winter is the winner.

p.s. Also if you are JC, it would be best slot where to put Prismatic gems (+32 SP) together with Helmet (both has Socket bonus +9 SP)

Memphis2k · 04/05/09, 6:44 AM

Yeah my fault sry again -.-

Agash · 04/05/09, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Tormirian

I'm still thinking about weapon. Someone said the best combo should be Voice of Reason (74) + Guiding Star (550) + Enchant (63), thats 687 SP. But I'm thinking about taking Staff of Endless Winter (587) + Enchant (81) so thats 668.
But Staff has aslo 2x blue sockets, so if you socket it with 2x 19 SP gem so you have 706 SP. With new Flametongue enchant (Bonus damage from spell power now based on weapon speed. Slower weapons will benefit more from spell power) which should add (just my tip) around +20 SP compares to Guiding Star.
I believe Staff of Endeless Winter is the winner.

p.s. Also if you are JC, it would be best slot where to put Prismatic gems (+32 SP) together with Helmet (both has Socket bonus +9 SP)

The damage from Flametongue based on speed is for attacks made with that weapon (ie for enhancement shaman) and will not effect elemental at all. So the advantage of the staff over the mace/shield is +21 SP, +58 crit and +5 int at the cost of 80 haste (and 15 MP5). Fairly close but the 1H and shield is better in my opinion.

Also bear in mind that it takes 2 blue gems to get the +9 SP socket bonus, so only 4.5 SP per gem - you can get more by putting them elsewhere. For example the kilt will give +7 spell power and only use one of your prismatics and you can get another +5 SP from the wrist socket bonus. So that is +12 SP from sockets as opposed to your +9,

Sonatafade · 04/08/09, 10:55 AM

Uldar Gear Selections

This is the spread sheet I've come up with to help figure out some questions I had about what my end-game setup would look like after Ulduar. I apologize for the VERY poor setup, so I'll explain it very quickly. The top set of gear was my first crack at what my Ulduar gear would look like, and the 2nd set below it is my current gear. The comparison after my current gear is the difference in stats from my current gear to that first Uldar gear set. The third set was my 2nd crack at an Ulduar gear set where I switched to the crafted cloth belt and switched from the Frozen Loop to the Pyrelight Circle (Signet of Manifested Pain has slightly more int but all the other damage stats are the same so I chose it over Pyrelight).

The comparion at the very bottom of the spread sheet is a comparison between the 2 Ulduar gear sets. While both sets are extremely close, I'm leaning towards the cloth belt/Pyrelight combo over the mail belt/Frozen Loop combo. A 22 spellpower gain (gemming the way I did) while losing 13 haste 3 crit and 3 hit definitely feels worth it.

The only real change I'm considering here is not putting Reckless Monarch Topazes in the neck/back and just putting Runed Scarlet Rubies there instead. As Ezareth pointed out earlier, I'm worried about Lava Burst wait times. Although I'm not sure the wait time on a Lava Burst would outweigh the gain on a further hasted Lightning Bolt.

Another thing I was thinking of, how will the T8 2 piece bonus affect crit scaling while we have that bonus equipped? I imagine the dps value of haste and crit will be a bit closer when taking that bonus into consideration.

Ezareth · 04/08/09, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Sonatafade

Uldar Gear Selections

The only real change I'm considering here is not putting Reckless Monarch Topazes in the neck/back and just putting Runed Scarlet Rubies there instead. As Ezareth pointed out earlier, I'm worried about Lava Burst wait times. Although I'm not sure the wait time on a Lava Burst would outweigh the gain on a further hasted Lightning Bolt.

Another thing I was thinking of, how will the T8 2 piece bonus affect crit scaling while we have that bonus equipped? I imagine the dps value of haste and crit will be a bit closer when taking that bonus into consideration.

The 2 Piece bonus will increase our DPS 1.5-2%, more if we work on shocking multiple targets during our rotations(God that will throw a monkey wrench into things).

Overall adding crits to our flameshock dots doesn't make crit too much more useful, especially since it can't proc clearcasting or elemental oath and from all I've seen it is not even affected by our meta gem.

I haven't seen too many options in BIS gear where I have the choice to chose between haste or crit, usually it is spellpower at the cost of anything/everything else but hit.

Because hit is now such an easy thing to max I think our #1 focus when gearing for BIS will be trying not to overshoot hit while maximizing spellpower, satisfying those two rules leaves us little other manuevering room in respect to gemming/gearing of haste/crit.

Agash · 04/08/09, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Sonatafade

[url="http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=ppGtyOOODh4l7HNupspz5IA"]
Another thing I was thinking of, how will the T8 2 piece bonus affect crit scaling while we have that bonus equipped? I imagine the dps value of haste and crit will be a bit closer when taking that bonus into consideration.

Whilst it's certainly a bonus, it's not going to suddenly make crit an incredible stat. My preliminary calcs in full T8 (including bonuses) is showing that for the equivalent item weightings that would give a 1% increase in DPS for SP, you would get 0.81% increase for haste and 0.48% for crit. The problem is that you are talking about a bonus to part of a spell that you cast once every 18 seconds or so.

(Note: my spreadsheet is still in development so there might be the odd error but it seems to be checking out ok so far)

Sonatafade · 04/08/09, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Ezareth

The 2 Piece bonus will increase our DPS 1.5-2%, more if we work on shocking multiple targets during our rotations(God that will throw a monkey wrench into things).

While it would be quite the task to keep track of, it's something that shadow priests and affliction locks have been doing for years. My only problem with a multi-target shocking method is a fight where every inch of dps is required on a target to kill it before something happens. In that situation, switching away from your main target to increase overall dps instead of your current target dps would not be a good idea. However, the game just doesn't seem hard enough to have something like that in it anymore if you're in a high end guild.

Originally Posted by Ezareth

...and from all I've seen it is not even affected by our meta gem.

I hadn't heard/seen anything about this yet. Can this be confirmed?

Tomorrow · 04/08/09, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ezareth

Basically they change Lightweave to a 250 SP proc with a 45 second internal cooldown
and a 50% proc chance which makes it worst case 75 Spellpower over our normal 23 Haste Enchant.

Interesting ! do you know how long this buff will last ? I deleted the ptr from my computer so I can't check. I guess it's 12 or 15 seconds.
sure it will be great reason to change into tailoring if it really goes like that.

Binkenstein · 04/08/09, 4:21 PM

At the moment I'm expecting ~140 dps from 2pc, ~353 from 4pc, and the resulting EP values are SP: 1.409, Haste: 1.457, Crit 1.016 (which makes those new resto boots worth less than the ele/moonkin t7 boots)

Jezele · 04/08/09, 6:18 PM

Originally Posted by Binkenstein

At the moment I'm expecting ~140 dps from 2pc, ~353 from 4pc, and the resulting EP values are SP: 1.409, Haste: 1.457, Crit 1.016 (which makes those new resto boots worth less than the ele/moonkin t7 boots)

Bink, when you came up with those EP values, were you using current gear? Or Ulduar gear? I'm basically in BiS gear right now and my EP values are closer to 1.2, 1.0 and 0.6 based on your latest spreadsheet.

Binkenstein · 04/08/09, 8:19 PM

Originally Posted by Jezele

Bink, when you came up with those EP values, were you using current gear? Or Ulduar gear? I'm basically in BiS gear right now and my EP values are closer to 1.2, 1.0 and 0.6 based on your latest spreadsheet.

Ulduar gear (my own selection however), with the T8 options switched on (although I am using r12 atm, not r11 which you'll have)

Ezareth · 04/09/09, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Sonatafade

I hadn't heard/seen anything about this yet. Can this be confirmed?

Not confirmed by multiple sources, but earlier in this thread( I think) someone who acquired the 2 piece stated it was only 100% the dot tick on crits not the expected 109%.

Originally Posted by Tomorrow

Interesting ! do you know how long this buff will last ? I deleted the ptr from my computer so I can't check. I guess it's 12 or 15 seconds.
sure it will be great reason to change into tailoring if it really goes like that.

15 Seconds.

Originally Posted by Binkenstein

At the moment I'm expecting ~140 dps from 2pc, ~353 from 4pc, and the resulting EP values are SP: 1.409, Haste: 1.457, Crit 1.016 (which makes those new resto boots worth less than the ele/moonkin t7 boots)

I can't see it being possible for haste to be worth more than spellpower except in extreme circumstances. Are you sure your calculations are correct here?

Agash · 04/09/09, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Ezareth

I can't see it being possible for haste to be worth more than spellpower except in extreme circumstances. Are you sure your calculations are correct here?

I'm getting similar results from my spreadsheet : SP = 1.44, Haste = 1.46, Crit = 0.88. I need to find out why my crit value is lower but point for point, it appears Haste and SP will be extremely close.