Sockets take up a flat amount of an items budget. The common belief behind sockets is that an item is initially created without sockets and adding a socket takes out an amount equivalent to a primary color rare gem from the highest corresponding stat. The socket bonus seems to be just that, a bonus that consumes no portion of the item’s budget.
I understand that to mean an ilvl 226 item with a blue socket has -24 stam compared to an ilvl 226 with no sockets.
I'm pretty good at parroting others and doing simple algebra.
No it doesn't.
Will update the post with more results in a few minutes
It indeed does break stealth.
As expected cloak of shadows doesn't trigger it.
The SEF tool-tip is bugged as expected, Chain Lightning cooldown stays at 3.5 seconds fully talented
Elemental mastery is bugged and has no cool down at the moment, so it's impossible to check if the cool down mechanic was fixed. Then again I would accept no cool down as a valid fix though
The glyph vendor isn't up yet so I can't test the new ones yet
Just wanted to add that FS's range remains 20y even with 2 points invested in Elemental Reach.
Just wanted to add that FS's range remains 20y even with 2 points invested in Elemental Reach.
Right, I'm sure it's a bug. It has been very problematic on range sensitive fights so far.
Also, I have recently swapped out the Glyph of Lava with totem of wrath, and Lightning Bolt is catching up in output to Lava Burst. I'm wondering how this will start affecting our rotations down the line.
7500 low end crits, 11500 high end.
I'll try to get CombatLogs up when we are done for tonight.
Going back to the discussion on the benefits of JC as a profession. I have heard rumor that the JC only gems will be updated now that the epic gems are coming out? Has anyone seen anything about this? I've turned up nothing searching so far.
Originally Posted by Zinth
Also, I have recently swapped out the Glyph of Lava with totem of wrath, and Lightning Bolt is catching up in output to Lava Burst. I'm wondering how this will start affecting our rotations down the line.
7500 low end crits, 11500 high end.
I'll try to get CombatLogs up when we are done for tonight.
I'd be interested in those logs, the first thing I thought when looking over the PTR talents was that it may end up being of small benefit to still use FS and LavaB when taking into consideration the impossibility of mucking up LB spam (can you tell I was a destro lock in TBC?). Certainly the extra 20% to the direct damage of FS is no big deal (works out around 250 extra damage per cast with my stats, looking over last nights run).
I'd be interested in those logs, the first thing I thought when looking over the PTR talents was that it may end up being of small benefit to still use FS and LavaB when taking into consideration the impossibility of mucking up LB spam (can you tell I was a destro lock in TBC?). Certainly the extra 20% to the direct damage of FS is no big deal (works out around 250 extra damage per cast with my stats, looking over last nights run).
I am "Tahmtwo" on the PTR. All the gear in my current live Armory is what I am using in our runs now. I was playing around with a lot of stuff, but since WWS isn't separating PTR data by bosses right now it's hard to distinguish. I did a few runs just spamming Lightning Bolt and others where I stuck to a FS > LvB > LB x5 > LvB > LB x5 > Repeat rotation.
I'd be interested in those logs, the first thing I thought when looking over the PTR talents was that it may end up being of small benefit to still use FS and LavaB when taking into consideration the impossibility of mucking up LB spam (can you tell I was a destro lock in TBC?). Certainly the extra 20% to the direct damage of FS is no big deal (works out around 250 extra damage per cast with my stats, looking over last nights run).
I really hope they don't dumb us down to a one button class.
Also, keep in mind (from the OP):
Storm, Earth, and Fire changed toReduces the cooldown of your Chain Lightning spell by .75 sec (on all ranks, down from 0.75/1/2.5sec), your Earthbind Totem also has a 33/66/100% chance to root targets for 5 sec when cast and the periodic damage done by your Flame Shock is increased by 20%.
LvB is also 1.5 sec vs 2.0 on LB pre-haste. As long as it stays remotely competitive, and FS remains our highest DPS per GCD, LvB will always be worth casting. Basically the same logic as using CL used to have even when it fell behind in absolute damage due to poor scaling, but in LvB's case, its average damage won't even fall behind for quite some time.
I think what we're trying to pursue here is whether or not it's better to keep the LvB Glyph or swap it out for the new Totem of Wrath glyph.
The way I see it is 84 spell power by 6.5 spells per rotation. 5 Lightening bolts and a lava burst and half a flame shock per rotation is 546 spell power per rotation or 1092 spell power per 2 rotations. Lava burst glyph on a well geared shaman is 300 spell power max, 10% of 3k and this is being generous cause most shammies are around 2800 raid buffed.
Unless I am totally missing something it would appear to me that the totem of wrath glyph is quite a bit better.
If it was a fight with alot of moving and you couldn't maintain your rotation at all then it is possible the lava glyph could be better.
The way I see it is 84 spell power by 6.5 spells per rotation. 5 Lightening bolts and a lava burst and half a flame shock per rotation is 546 spell power per rotation or 1092 spell power per 2 rotations. Lava burst glyph on a well geared shaman is 300 spell power max, 10% of 3k and this is being generous cause most shammies are around 2800 raid buffed.
Unless I am totally missing something it would appear to me that the totem of wrath glyph is quite a bit better.
If it was a fight with alot of moving and you couldn't maintain your rotation at all then it is possible the lava glyph could be better.
Yes, you are missing something. The 84 spellpower is just that, 84 spellpower. The actual calculations to show that they're about even at 2400 spellpower are a bit complex, but you should remember that since the cast times of these spells are different, you can't do anything with the spell counts, short of multiplying them by the cast time.
If you really doubt me, go check SEIC, on the EP tab under Glyph of Lava. Two copies of the calculations there, one with the glyph, one without.
I think what we're trying to pursue here is whether or not it's better to keep the LvB Glyph or swap it out for the new Totem of Wrath glyph.
Simple to calculate. Get one rotation with ToW and one with Lava, then see at which spellpower they are equal. Under that ToW is better, above that, Lava is better. There, problem solved.
Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.
Yes, you are missing something. The 84 spellpower is just that, 84 spellpower. The actual calculations to show that they're about even at 2400 spellpower are a bit complex, but you should remember that since the cast times of these spells are different, you can't do anything with the spell counts, short of multiplying them by the cast time.
If you really doubt me, go check SEIC, on the EP tab under Glyph of Lava. Two copies of the calculations there, one with the glyph, one without.
Oh I never doubted you. Thank you for making this easier for me to understand. If I understand correctly, your saying the coeffecient of the lightening bolt being a short cast that your not getting the full 84 spell power per cast.????
Just an observation on glyph selection, tier 8 set bonuses could well have a part to play in glyph selection, and who knows what they will settle on with lightening bolt and chain lightening. It seems they want to simplify (dumb down) our single target rotation by taking chain lightening out of the equation, and have expressed a wish to make a clearer differentiation between LB and CL, so perhaps one of the set bonuses will be a buff for LB.
Given that blizzard implemented shamanism without a property to CL, I wouldn't be surprised if they further boosted the disparity with the set bonuses.
They could just reduce the damage and cooldown(like be able to use a LB > CL > LB > CL rotation) to make it a more effective AOE solution, or spread the dmg equally but that may piss off pvpers who within the 3.1 patch will finally get their instant CL lazer back.
Simple to calculate. Get one rotation with ToW and one with Lava, then see at which spellpower they are equal. Under that ToW is better, above that, Lava is better. There, problem solved.
It looks to me like Glyph of ToW is going to be taking a slot for a fair time to come.
Running things through my own spreadsheet, Glyph of ToW is clearly better at current gear levels. I have also come out with a point where the Lava Glyph becomes superior again at 2400+ spellpower (unbuffed). Seeing as I am personally at a shade over 1900, with no real upside from current content other than a switch to JC, I just can't see us getting anywhere near that much spellpower, even in full Ulduar gear.
Also, that figure assumes an equal rotation. With full Ulduar gear and the extra haste it brings its likely we will be fitting in more casts between LvBs, which is a further plus for Glyph of ToW.
A lot of gear has now been found on the PTR, so I imagine this could be calculated if someone wanted to compare items, but it seems like Glyph of Lava is on its way out
A lot of gear has now been found on the PTR, so I imagine this could be calculated if someone wanted to compare items, but it seems like Glyph of Lava is on its way out
Be very careful when looking at PTR gear, though, as a lot isn't even itemized yet.
Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.
So for a typical 9 LB, 2 LVb, 1 FS rotation we get 9*1.76+2*2.27+1.62=22 damage per spellpower. 22*84 = 1848 damage.
Next step is to work out how much spellpower is required to get that damage increase with the Lava glyph. 2.56-2.27 = 0.29 extra damage per spellpower point per LvB, so since we have two it's 0.58. 1848/0.58 = 3186 spellpower. Subtract buffs (280 ToW, 125 Flask, 46 food, 274 flametongue, or 725 all up) and 2461 spellpower is the break even point. Above that Lava is better, bellow that ToW is better.
Of course, if we look at a 90% effectiveness for Lava, we see: (1848*0.9)/0.58 = 2867 which is 2142 spellpower, which some of us are almost at anyway. That missing 10% is 185 damage, which is roughly 10 dps difference, which pretty much confirms what I've said before: It's fairly even at current gearing levels, so it's probably better to stick with Lava if you have it already.
Of course, if we look at a 90% effectiveness for Lava, we see: (1848*0.9)/0.58 = 2867 which is 2142 spellpower, which some of us are almost at anyway. That missing 10% is 185 damage, which is roughly 10 dps difference, which pretty much confirms what I've said before: It's fairly even at current gearing levels, so it's probably better to stick with Lava if you have it already.
I understand and agree with your general point that there is not much to choose between the glyphs. However, I don't quite get the specifics of the argument above. Is there some way I am too stupid to grasp that Lava Glyph can be less than 100% effective, or are you just using the 10% figure to illustrate there isn't much to choose between them?
It was more a point of illustrating how minor the difference is between the two. If we only have enough spellpower for Lava to be worth 90% of ToW, the lost 10% is worth ~10 dps. When you compare the 10dps difference to the end result of ~5000, it's a fairly minor figure.
I'm thinking I'll stick with Lava; one of my reasons being in fights where I'm moving around a fair bit (e.g. Heigan dance) I can often still keep up FlS + LvB (with ES or post-patch FrS thrown in between,) pausing for the 1.2 sec I need to get a LvB off. LB is the 'filler' for 'stand and cast' fights, so any figures based on our 'full rotation' are probably going to underestimate the relative contribution of LvB on not-just-stand-and-cast fights.
The important difference for me between the two glyphs is that LavaB glyph scales whereas the ToW glyph doesn't, so when I use a spell power trinket and get a proc from Sundial at the same time for a huge boost in spell power the LavaB glyph scales beautifully where ToW glyph shuffles its feet and mutters something about being consistent across all spells.
Mind you, when I think about it, with the effect haste may have on the relationship between the two glyphs they both scale. Presumably the more haste you have the higher the value of the ToW glyph... I'm just wondering whether this might start to make me edge towards the ToW glyph... With Embrace of the Spider procs as well as heroism etc... I can see some very quick cast times now.
03/13/09, 4:11 PM
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