Shaman: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 3

Malan · 11/24/08, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Levva

Simple question:

Any reason there isn't a new Enhancement Shaman thread in this sub-forum? We need somewhere to post our collective wisdom

The goal is to no longer have "mega threads" that handle every topic under the sun for a particular spec/class. If people have enhancement discussions, they should start a new thread devoted to a particular issue.

Originally Posted by browncowdown

in a raid situation..what is better right now, WF/FT or WF/WF..my current weapons are Titainsteel Bonecrusher and The Stray

Seriously, use the sim. If you're too lazy to do that, use rockbiter.

Originally Posted by Sorrugis

My question is this; How do you heal in the arena? I would love to know what type of macros / mods you use to perform various actions (poison removal, LHW spams, ect). .

Probably an issue broad enough that you should start a thread in the PvP sub-forum.

Frosthoof · 11/24/08, 1:01 PM

Question regarding Enhancement:

Pre-WotLK I was sitting at roughly 29% crit unbuffed. In raid with buffs and procs I could see my crit reach ~45% if not more. I was wondering, did anyone ever find out if there is a "cap" on crit? By that, I mean at what point should one consider stacking up raw AP over Crit/AP+crit? (provided Hit/expertise cap are reached of course)

Malan · 11/24/08, 1:22 PM

Crit has diminishing returns the closer to 100% you get, so yes there is a "cap" on it where eventually crit will provide less DPS than some other stat.

Protico · 11/24/08, 4:52 PM

Originally Posted by Frosthoof

Question regarding Enhancement:

Pre-WotLK I was sitting at roughly 29% crit unbuffed. In raid with buffs and procs I could see my crit reach ~45% if not more. I was wondering, did anyone ever find out if there is a "cap" on crit? By that, I mean at what point should one consider stacking up raw AP over Crit/AP+crit? (provided Hit/expertise cap are reached of course)

There is also a hard cap depending on how much of your hit table the "hit" portion makes up. Chance to crit cannot be larger than your total chance to land a hit.

gothic · 11/24/08, 5:56 PM

Does anyone know where one might find a list/chart of the base stats (Or just Int) for the various races of shamans? I've been hunting around trying to locate anything, but not turning up with much.

For example, I read that a troll shaman will have 104 base int at level 70. I'd also like 71-80, and the other races. If all else fails, I will make due with level 70 and 80, then just pull some numbers to fill in the gaps.

Toots Hepcat · 11/24/08, 9:41 PM

Originally Posted by Frosthoof

I was wondering, did anyone ever find out if there is a "cap" on crit?

There are three:

White Cap = 100 - Glancing - Miss - Dodge = 100 - 25 - (28 - Hit) - (6.5 - .25 * Expertise) = 60.07% for a shaman with no expertise who's spell hit capped (6 + 13.57 hit)
Yellow Cap = 100 - Miss - Dodge = 93.5% for a shaman with no expertise who's spell hit capped.
Spell Cap = 100 - Miss = 100% for a shaman who's spell hit capped

By that, I mean at what point should one consider stacking up raw AP over Crit/AP+crit?

And this is where frequent simulation cycles come into play. 60.07% seems high, but it's possible with crit rating procs, ED and mongoose you'd go above 60% crit at some point in your DPS cycle. I suggest running the sim after every upgrade; shoot tukez has that thing spitting out results in less than a minute

• Binkenstein · 11/24/08, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by Toots Hepcat

And this is where frequent simulation cycles come into play. 60.07% seems high, but it's possible with crit rating procs, ED and mongoose you'd go above 60% crit at some point in your DPS cycle. I suggest running the sim after every upgrade; shoot tukez has that thing spitting out results in less than a minute

It's starting to look like we need something similar for Elemental too.

Wolflord · 11/25/08, 3:36 AM

Enhancement Question.

After using the simulator I arrived at:
[Stonebreaker's Totem] > [Totem of Splintering] > [Totem of Dueling]

But Im unsure of where [Totem of the Elemental Plane] fits in as I dont know its uptime.

IMB111 · 11/25/08, 7:45 AM

Enhancement:
I just used the aep (*100) I got from the simulator in lootrank and got some really strange results for the Mainhand.
Loot Rank for WOLTK
Are there any mistakes or are Caster Weapons really that good? The aep for MH/OH-speed are estimated, so probably the reoson are those numbers, but I don't know how to get exact numbers.

Rouncer · 11/25/08, 9:43 AM

Originally Posted by IMB111

Enhancement:
I just used the aep (*100) I got from the simulator in lootrank and got some really strange results for the Mainhand.
Loot Rank for WOLTK
Are there any mistakes or are Caster Weapons really that good? The aep for MH/OH-speed are estimated, so probably the reoson are those numbers, but I don't know how to get exact numbers.

Increase the speed value by about 50%.

There is a formula for calculating the value for weapon speed on the first page of this thread, hell it's the very first question asked and it's answered in the next post.

Also you may want to try inputting actual AeP values into Lootrank so the results have a bit more relevance, putting strength in as 1.10 when AP is set to 1 and so forth so the ranking will show the differences between the items in regard to actual attackpower instead of those massive numbers with no real link to anything.

Shaman: Enhancement

Is the post I made on the TTT about intro-raiding AeP values and it has a link to a lootlink with correct weapon speed values for that level of gear.

All that said, yes, spellpower weapons aren't anywhere near as bad as they used to be for us since Spellpower is approaching a AeP value of 1 so they will show up on your lootrank list. Leave them for the Elemental Shaman though, since they will derive more benefit then you will from them.

Edited to add a question of my own:

I've been playing with the Sim regarding weapon speed and I've noticed something strange. Matched weapon speeds work out to more dps even when using Windfury/Flametongue. Can anyone think of a logical reason why that would be true or could it be a flaw in the simulator?

Hilarius · 11/25/08, 10:58 AM

I've seen a couple of numbers being thrown around, and I was wondering if there was a consensus on the sweet spot for character sheet crit, or at least a ballpark value to aim for as an elemental shaman.

Toots Hepcat · 11/25/08, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Rounced

I've been playing with the Sim regarding weapon speed and I've noticed something strange. Matched weapon speeds work out to more dps even when using Windfury/Flametongue. Can anyone think of a logical reason why that would be true or could it be a flaw in the simulator?

Matched weapon speeds with dual WF have a major benefit in tukez' sim; they had a slight but perceptible benefit in Yo's as well. However, I haven't detected such a benefit in game...hour tests of just AA & WF using CoMF/DS vs CoMF/VLFoB had the former out in front of the latter, but only by as much as one might expect when plotting a graph accounting for weapon damage and speed.

I've been told that it has been confirmed that when the MH and OH swing at the same speed, the MH always evaluates first. And, indeed, this would give a major benefit to the number of MH WF procs. However, with shamans this rarely happens in game -- the first time Flurry falls off, one weapon or the other will fall out of sync with the other and there is a good chance they'll stay that way for a while.

I think this aberration in the sim may be attributed a difference in precision of the time interval used to evaluate weapon swings. For example, let's say the game allows weapon events to occur with three decimal places of precision...e.g. while it displays a weapon speed of 2.65, the actual speed is 2.651 or some such. In this case, the offhand could swing at 2.651 and the main at 2.652. However, if the sim normalized these both to 2.65, the mainhand would swing first. This would lead to a model that favored the MH in a way that the game did not.

It may also be simply an issue of long time windows. Over 1000 hours, you will detect trends that you will never see in 2 -10 minutes of fight time, and one of these would be the re-synchronization of weapon speeds. Weapons will start out in sync (provided you active autoattack out of range or via stormstrike), then fall out of sync the first time Flurry falls off. They may not resync in that 2-10 minute window. But over several hundred hours of combat, they would -- many times. And the natural favoring of the Main would show up.

One way to account for this might be to simulate 1000 hours worth of 2-10 minute fights...e.g., drop all procs and restart combat every 2-10 minutes, to simulate the next fight.

Edit: Matched weapons showing a benefit with WF/FT is probably a bug. So, ignore my speculation.

Protico · 11/25/08, 5:19 PM

Originally Posted by Wolflord

Enhancement Question.

After using the simulator I arrived at:
[Stonebreaker's Totem] > [Totem of Splintering] > [Totem of Dueling]

But Im unsure of where [Totem of the Elemental Plane] fits in as I dont know its uptime.

Not sure how your numbers compare to mine, but I get about 5-8 LBs/min, 15% proc means I will be getting ~1 ppm. So 1/6 * 196 * (your EP for haste) = EP value of the totem.

I am pretty disappointed by the totem selection available currently, my AP has almost doubled so I figured there would be a totem roughly twice as good as the old badge totem yet all I can see are down/side -grades and arena totems.

Tattooface · 11/25/08, 5:31 PM

Hello All.

I have ran the Sim with Lava Burst in the rotation, and it comes out as less DPS. Now if we opened with a Flame Shock, and Lava Burst, then go to the normal Priority System would the DPS be higher? Is there a way to simulate this in the Sim? I understand that LvB stops our swing timer and should only be used in snared situations, but will one time LvB on opening work? Thank you for your time.

Toots Hepcat · 11/25/08, 5:42 PM

Originally Posted by Tattooface

I understand that LvB stops our swing timer and should only be used in snared situations, but will one time LvB on opening work?

No, it wouldn't. Lava Burst is not for us. Don't cast it.

Rouncer · 11/25/08, 6:21 PM

Originally Posted by Toots Hepcat

No, it wouldn't. Lava Burst is not for us. Don't cast it.

To elaborate on Toot's perfectly correct yet very concise response.

The time spent casting that Lava Burst could have been spent moving into melee range to begin effective dps.

Only cast Lava Burst if you are unable to get into melee range for whatever reason.

Protico · 11/25/08, 6:41 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

To elaborate on Toot's perfectly correct yet very concise response.

The time spent casting that Lava Burst could have been spent moving into melee range to begin effective dps.

Only cast Lava Burst if you are unable to get into melee range for whatever reason.

Even then, chances are decent you have some stacks of maelstrom sitting there, which means that a cast of LB or CL will become more DPS than LvB.

Kegsta · 11/25/08, 7:48 PM

Is the Glyph of Lava a discovered glyph?
wowhead shows it as a trainer glyph but no-one i talk to has it and theres none on the AH

Micah · 11/25/08, 8:26 PM

"10 Intellect = 6 mp5 if you have a 5-minute fight with Mana Tide and 100% uptime from Replenishment.

Int is 0.6mp5"

The above quote was taken from the TTT thread. I was wondering if someone could break down the calculations for that value so that I can see mana tide and replenishment gains as separate lines. Often I find my heroic groups without replenishment and would like to gear accordingly.

• Binkenstein · 11/25/08, 8:58 PM

Originally Posted by Kegsta

Is the Glyph of Lava a discovered glyph?
wowhead shows it as a trainer glyph but no-one i talk to has it and theres none on the AH

Yeah, it is. Ask around on your realm forums, ended up getting mine via the neutral AH.

Torrential · 11/25/08, 9:07 PM

Does anyone know if you can stack Healing Way on Loatheb during the debuff?

darkInertia · 11/26/08, 3:26 AM

does the stonebreaker's totem proc (chance) decrease at level 80?

Artoxia · 11/26/08, 3:48 AM

Hi,

I just wanted to ask if someone would just check my config file for heavy mistakes. I used the sim for the first time and was wondering about the ep calculation results:

I did two simulations with the following results:

stat (sim1) (sim2)

crit (3.01) (2.65)
hit (3.39) (3.11)
expertise (3.44) (3.27)

I think i can already stop right here. How can the big differnces between two simulations with the same config file be explained? Do i have to increase the simulation time? what would be a good value for that? I tried to increase it to 10.000 like in Yo's Sim, but it still has big differences.

Maybe i missunderstood some comments in the log file due to my rudimentary english.

Here it is:

#################	//comment marks are # and //
##ENHSIM CONFIG##	//if you write comments on the same line with config line
#################	//leave at least one space between the comment and value

simulation_time			2500 //in hours, you can also input decimals ex. 0.05
simulation_time_combatlog	300	//in minutes
combat_length			6	//in minutes
report_count			80 	//how many times the progress is reported during the simulation
threads				2	//number of threads to use, combatlogging always uses 1 thread
min_lag				0	//in milliseconds, lag means ping + player reaction time
max_lag				0	//1000 ms = 1s
simulate_mana			1	//{ 0 | 1 } if disabled, increases speed, but doesn't take mana limitations into account


ep_base_stat			ap //{ ap | sp }
ep_ap 				40
ep_crit_rating 			20
ep_hit_rating 			20
ep_expertise 			3 //not rating
ep_haste_rating 		20
ep_armor_penetration_rating 	20
ep_spellpower 			24
ep_dps				7.5
ep_mana				200
ep_spirit			100
ep_mp5				20



###################
#ROTATION AND MISC#
###################
mh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
oh_auto_attack			1	//{ 0 | 1 }
wait_ss_with_wf_cd		0.00	//max seconds to wait to SS, if wf cd is still up
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd	1	//{ 0 | 1 } this is noted only if you have dual wf
bloodlust_casters		2	//{ 0 | 1 | 2 }
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left	15.0	//cast LvB only if ED duration x or less seconds left
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left	4	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast LvB
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active	1	//{ 0 | 1 }
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left	0	//maximum Flame Shock dot ticks left to cast Flame Shock
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left	0	//maximum Lightning Shield charges left to cast LS
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left	700	//maximum mana left to cast SR
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left	3000	//maximum mana left to use mana potion


//set the rotation priority
//SS = stormstrike
//FS = flame shock
//ES = earth shock
//Frost = frost shock
//MW5_LB = maelstrom weapon cast lightning bolt, min 5 charges
//MW3_CL = maelstrom weapon cast chain lightning, min 3 charges
//generic form: MWx_YY, x is 1-5 and YY is either LB or CL
//LS = lightning shield
//LL = lava lash
//LB = lightning bolt
//CL = chain lighting
//LVB = lava burst
//ST = searing totem
//SR = shamanistic rage
rotation_priority_count		5
rotation_priority1		SR
rotation_priority2		MW5_LB
rotation_priority3		SS
rotation_priority4		ES
rotation_priority5		LL




##########
#BOSS#####
##########
miss				9.00	//%
dodge				6.50	//%
glancing			25.00	//%
armor				7700	
spell_miss			17.00	//%

nature_resistance		0	//effective resistances
fire_resistance			0
frost_resistance		0



######### //default value after the buff in comment
#BUFFS### //put to 0 if you dont use that buff
#########
armor_debuff_major		0/2600		//acid spit, expose armor, sunder armor
armor_debuff_minor		0/610		//faerie fire, sting, curse of recklessness
physical_vulnerability_debuff	0.0/2.0		//%, bloody frenzy, 2nd talent spec TBA
melee_haste_buff		20.0/20.0	//%, improved icy talons, windfury totem
melee_crit_chance_buff		0.0/5.0		//%, leader of the pack, rampage
attack_power_buff_flat		0/306		//battle shout, blessing of might
attack_power_buff_multiplier	0.0/99.7	//BUFF UPTIME %, DISABLES UR, abominations might, trueshot aura, (unleashed rage)
spell_haste_buff		0.0/5.0		//%, wrath of air totem
spell_crit_chance_buff		0.0/5.0		//%, moonkin aura, elemental oath
spell_crit_chance_debuff	0.0/10.0	//%, improved scorch, winter's chill
spell_damage_debuff		0.0/10.0	//%, ebon plaugebearer, earth and moon, curse of elements, totem of wrath
spellpower_buff			0/150		//focus magic, improved divine spirit, flametongue totem, demonic pact
spell_hit_chance_debuff		0.0/3.0		//%, improved faerie fire, misery
haste_buff			0.0/3.0		//%, improved moonkin aura, swift retribution
percentage_damage_increase	0.0/3.0		//%, ferocious inspiration, sanctified retribution
crit_chance_debuff		0.0/3.0		//%, heart of the crusader, totem of wrath
stat_multiplier			0.0/10.0	//%, blessing of kings
stat_add_buff			0/19		//mark of the wild
agi_and_strength_buff		98/98		//strength of earth, horn of winter
intellect_buff			0/40		//arcane intellect, fel intelligence

replenishment			1		//{ 0 | 1 }
water_shield			1		//{ 0 | 1 }
mana_spring_totem		1		//{ 0 | 1 }
blessing_of_wisdom		0		//{ 0 | 1 }
judgement_of_wisdom		0		//{ 0 | 1 }



#############
#CONSUMABLES#
#############//remember that you can use guardian elixir only if you use elixir in the flask_elixir slot

flask_elixir			elixir_of_major_agility

guardian_elixir			elixir_of_draenic_wisdom


potion				haste_potion


food				spice_hot_talbuk


misc_item			drums_of_battle






###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################


##########
#SHAMAN###
##########
race				draenei //{ orc | tauren | troll | draenei }
mh_speed			2.60
oh_speed			2.80
mh_dps				112.0
oh_dps				112.0
mh_crit				20.00	//%
oh_crit				20.00	
mh_hit				10.61	//%, you give hit which shows on your character sheet
oh_hit				10.61
mh_expertise_rating		79	//notice that these are given as rating
oh_expertise_rating		79
ap				2480	//when changing this, remember to change the spellpower also(if have mental quickness talent)
haste				1.71	//%
armor_penetration		0	//%
str				162
agi				454
int				357
spi				151
spellpower			744	//you give the spellpower which shows on your character sheet
spell_crit			16.01	//%
spell_hit			4.61	//%, you give spell hit which shows on your character sheet
max_mana			9471
mp5				90	//in combat

mh_imbue	 		windfury
oh_imbue	 		windfury
//{ windfury | flametongue | - }

mh_enchant			mongoose
oh_enchant			mongoose
//{ mongoose | executioner | crusader | deathfrost | - }

mh_weapon			axe
oh_weapon			axe
//{ axe | - } used currently only for orc's racial bonus
//in the future, this might also be used for items similiar to Dragonstrike

trinket1			dragonspine_trophy
trinket2			shard_of_contempt

totem				stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus			-

metagem				relentless_earthstorm_diamond


//you can't use same type of glyph in multiple slots
glyph_major1			stormstrike 
glyph_major2			windfury_weapon 
glyph_major3			-
glyph_major4			-


glyph_minor1			-
glyph_minor2			-
glyph_minor3			-



#########
#TALENTS#
#########
ancestral_knowledge		5/5	//ENHANCEMENT
improved_shields		0/3
mental_dexterity		        3/3
shamanistic_focus		1/1
flurry				        5/5
elemental_weapons		3/3
unleashed_rage			5/5
weapon_mastery			3/3
dual_wield_specialization	3/3
mental_quickness		3/3
improved_stormstrike		2/2
static_shock			0/3
maelstrom_weapon		5/5

convection			        0/5	//ELEMENTAL
concussion			        5/5
call_of_flame			2/3
elemental_devastation        3/3
reverberation			0/5
elemental_focus			1/1
elemental_fury			5/5
call_of_thunder			0/1
unrelenting_storm		0/5
elemental_precision		0/3
lightning_mastery		0/5
elemental_oath			0/2
lightning_overload		0/5
lava_flows			        0/3
storm_earth_and_fire		0/5

Another problem was, to put in the % of armor penetrations. But therefore i will have to look on the forum to find out how to calculate the %.

ruizAw · 11/26/08, 3:51 AM

Any fresh version elem-itemisation spreadsheet?

• Philondra · 11/26/08, 4:37 AM

Originally Posted by Krim

This question of mine has not yet been answered in the Restoration Shammy Think Tank, so I'm asking it here: though I believe the answer may be ambiguous.

I am raiding 25 man Naxx and am currently specced 0/17/54. I was wondering if it should be considered taking points out of Improved Water Shield, or Healing Focus, and putting them into Ancestral Awakening (AA). I do understand that AA is only effected by beneficial healign amounts, however I am finding that most of my casts are Riptide and Chain Heal, with the exceptions of Patchwerk where I spam LHW (glyphed).

In addition, I am also currently stacking +16 intellect gems (to gain full use from Replenishment, Mana Tide) and am currently on 20,000 mana unbuffed, what should I am for? (I myself think 25,000 unbuffed).

I apologize if this question has been answered to the satisfaction of the OP, but any spell that would proc AA is also going to proc improved water shield, so unless your mana problems are non-existant you might want to consider dropping healing focus. Both talents reward you for doing the same thing, and as improved water shield is generally considered the stronger of the two, it makes sense to take both if you're trying to fit in AA.

On a related note, Improved Shields does not affect the mana granted by Improved Water Shield procs. Can anyone confirm 1.) if the same is true of the 2T7 restoration bonus and 2.) whether this issue has been acknowledged by Blizzard as a bug or if the behavior is intended?