Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Shamans

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03/18/09, 1:22 AM   #646
• Jessamy
Struck by Diax's Rake
 
Jessamy's Avatar
 
Troll Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
I'm resto. For my spec and gear, magma totem ticks are not only bigger than searing totem ticks, each tick is more damage than the fire nova totem explosion. I still keep searing totem on my action bar as a modifier macro (shares a button with fire elemental totem) for rare occasions when the magma totem gcd or range is an issue.

Last edited by Jessamy : 03/18/09 at 8:36 AM. Reason: forgot to mention totem range


United States Offline
Old 03/18/09, 6:07 AM   #647
Kaytikat
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Shaman
 
Draenor (EU)
The main reason elemental and resto shaman won't be dropping magma on a boss fight even though it does more damage than searing is that searing has a greater range. The cost of moving into melee range to drop magma is far too significant, especially if it means that the elemental shaman suddenly has to watch out for the 105% threat line instead of 130%.

Offline
Old 03/18/09, 7:20 AM   #648
Sharkathi
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Magtheridon (EU)
Originally Posted by Kaytikat View Post
The main reason elemental and resto shaman won't be dropping magma on a boss fight even though it does more damage than searing is that searing has a greater range. The cost of moving into melee range to drop magma is far too significant, especially if it means that the elemental shaman suddenly has to watch out for the 105% threat line instead of 130%.
True for some fights, irrelevant on others. Also dependant on how good your tanks TPS is.

Not really relevant though, as Searing is better for Elemental because of it´s DPCT.

Offline
Old 03/18/09, 11:43 AM   #649
memp
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Quel'dorei
pvp resto hw vs lhw..noobie question

I rerolled a shaman and am eager to try out some resto pvp at 80...but why is it that I see many builds without the imp hw to reduce cast time? Is lhw our new primary heal due to its glyph? I always thought that HW was more efficient, and now that AA accounts for ineffective healing, the overhealing from HW could be a good thing.

Could someone just explain why lhw>hw or is it a matter of personal preference? And if I do drop 5 pts into the imp hw, shouldnt I pick up at least 1 pt into healing way?

Thanks for any input

Offline
Old 03/18/09, 12:39 PM   #650
Kemeran
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Eonar
Originally Posted by memp View Post
I rerolled a shaman and am eager to try out some resto pvp at 80...but why is it that I see many builds without the imp hw to reduce cast time? Is lhw our new primary heal due to its glyph? I always thought that HW was more efficient, and now that AA accounts for ineffective healing, the overhealing from HW could be a good thing.

Could someone just explain why lhw>hw or is it a matter of personal preference? And if I do drop 5 pts into the imp hw, shouldnt I pick up at least 1 pt into healing way?

Thanks for any input
In my opinion, solely from a PvP standpoint, casting HW leaves you hanging out there with a cast time that just begs to get interrupted and lock you out from all nature spells for several seconds. If you do almost all your healing with riptide and hasted LHW, those <.9 second heals are going to be a lot tougher to interrupt for your opponents, as well as providing steadier healing for whoever is being focused on.

Offline
Old 03/18/09, 12:40 PM   #651
MatsT
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Frostmane (EU)
Originally Posted by memp View Post
I rerolled a shaman and am eager to try out some resto pvp at 80...but why is it that I see many builds without the imp hw to reduce cast time? Is lhw our new primary heal due to its glyph? I always thought that HW was more efficient, and now that AA accounts for ineffective healing, the overhealing from HW could be a good thing.

Could someone just explain why lhw>hw or is it a matter of personal preference? And if I do drop 5 pts into the imp hw, shouldnt I pick up at least 1 pt into healing way?

Thanks for any input
Basically, if you are healing an Earth Shielded target Lesser Healing Wave is roughly the same healing per second as Healing Wave, and it's a lot harder to interrupt. When you are getting attacked, you will typically use only LHW. Not sure exactly what you mean by "new primary heal" since LHW has always been our primary pvp heal. The only thing that makes Healing Wave even worth considering, is that Tidal Waves puts LHW cast time below the GCD, meaning if your only goal is to put out maximum healing on someone else when you are not getting attacked, Riptide->HW->HW is the maximum throughput you can get.

About the tier 1 talents, the reason people choose differently (about 50/50 from what I've seen) is that they are both very bad. Putting 5 in imp HW will give you access to the max healing rotation in the very rare situations you want to use it, but 25% cheaper totems is also a small difference considering the totems we drop often are already cheap. Personal preference or setup dictates which one is best. Healing Way is a very weak pvp talent since HW will typically only be 5-15% of the healing you do. Even if it increased all healing waves by 6% it would be mediocre, but now that you have to cast two in a row it's very bad.

Offline
Old 03/18/09, 3:29 PM   #652
Idk
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Dreadmaul
I searched extensively for an answer to this and came up empty handed: does anyone know if and/or how the threat reduction stacks when combining the new spirit weapons talent with elemental precision? Assuming threat reduction works like it did in TBC, I would assume it reduces threat to .49 ( .7 * .7) but I'm not sure if they've changed the way that threat reduction stacks.

(Background: I wish that I always ran with competent tanks who always generate more threat than I could ever need, but I regularly find myself pulling aggro or needing to hold back. The loss of the elemental talents needed to get spirit weapons results in less than 1% damage reduction which, to me, may be worth it.)

Offline
Old 03/18/09, 6:13 PM   #653
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
Binkenstein's Avatar
 
Pandaren Shaman
 
Saurfang
Threat reductions are multiplicative.

Starting with 100% threat, you reduce it by 30% to 70%. Then reduce that by 30% to get 49%. So yes, you are correct in how the reduction works (this is so it's nigh impossible to hit 0% threat)

www.totemspot.com The Shaman Community Site - My blog

Totemspot Guides includes Ele & Enh guides for Mists

New Zealand Offline
Old 03/19/09, 4:21 AM   #654
Darkchild
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Skullcrusher (EU)
I'm starting out as a fresh lvl80 resto shaman atm and was wondering if there are any stats I should aim for to maintain enough mana regen in a 25man raid?

Offline
Old 03/19/09, 4:28 AM   #655
drakonslair
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Shaman
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
Originally Posted by Darkchild View Post
I'm starting out as a fresh lvl80 resto shaman atm and was wondering if there are any stats I should aim for to maintain enough mana regen in a 25man raid?
Just keep stacking intellect and mp5 until you feel you wont have problems after that work on getting spell/haste up. Thats the way I usually work when I start fresh ( new expansion etc). Prefer to have too much mana than too little to start with at least and once you start getting a lot of haste your mana usage will likely increase so have a surplus to start with isnt a bad thing.

Having said that simply ensuring you have replenishment makes a huge difference

Offline
Old 03/21/09, 1:20 PM   #656
Coriolanus
Glass Joe
 
Coriolanus's Avatar
 
Troll Death Knight
 
Akama
Resto question: is there ever too much use for throwing up just a straight up Healing Wave? When I'm raid healing, I'm mainly focusing on keeping ES on a tank and casting chain heal and riptide as needed, and in five mans ES+riptide+LHW seem to be enough.

Yet I feel like I'm really missing something by not using healing wave. Tell me about it.

Offline
Old 03/21/09, 2:01 PM   #657
Daidalos
Great Tiger
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by Coriolanus View Post
Resto question: is there ever too much use for throwing up just a straight up Healing Wave? When I'm raid healing, I'm mainly focusing on keeping ES on a tank and casting chain heal and riptide as needed, and in five mans ES+riptide+LHW seem to be enough.

Yet I feel like I'm really missing something by not using healing wave. Tell me about it.
When raid healing the times for healing wave will be useful will be rare. Its mostly effective when healing a tank. Healing wave is slightly more efficient than LHW even with es on target (and with lhw glyph) so if speed isn't an issue and there is someone in the raid who is very low on health HW can be useful but these situations are rare. Basically use CH assuming you will get at least 1 jump, or If cast time is important use RT or LHW. If you can afford to take a little longer and won't be overhealing by a large amount use HW

Last edited by Daidalos : 03/21/09 at 4:13 PM.


Offline
Old 03/21/09, 3:10 PM   #658
• Jessamy
Struck by Diax's Rake
 
Jessamy's Avatar
 
Troll Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Daidalos View Post
When raid healing the times for healing wave will be useful will be rare.
This is not a unanimous position. When hasted with Tidal Waves, LHW and HW are effectively the same cast time, since both are limited by global cooldown. Sometimes landing your heal faster and having to wait for the gcd is worth it, but HW is more powerful than LHW. Bear in mind that you will use up mana faster with the larger heal. However, with 5/5 Tidal Waves, if you use Riptide and Chain Heal enough to keep all your wave spells hasted, I would say the exact opposite of Daidalos. Outside of pvp, lesser healing wave is not as useful as healing wave.

Edit: Hey, not fair! You edited your post to acknowledge the situational strengths of Healing Wave, so now it looks like I'm taking position against a straw man argument. I'll respond in kind, by admitting that if you can top of a target with Lesser Healing Wave, then Healing Wave isn't a stronger heal, since all that extra is overheal. The upcoming 3.1 AA change will make overheal less bad, but the upcoming 3.1 mana regeneration will make overheal worse.

Having both Healing Wave and Lesser Healing Wave available gives the same sort of flexibility to us that we had with the old downranking mechanic. I can choose to spend less mana, and heal for less. The smaller heal is less efficient both in terms of hpm and hps, unless that's all the healing needed -- then it's more hpm and the same hps.

Last edited by Jessamy : 03/21/09 at 5:00 PM.


United States Offline
Old 03/21/09, 4:26 PM   #659
Daidalos
Great Tiger
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by Jessamy View Post
This is not a unanimous position. When hasted with Tidal Waves, LHW and HW are effectively the same cast time, since both are limited by global cooldown. Sometimes landing your heal faster and having to wait for the gcd is worth it, but HW is more powerful than LHW. Bear in mind that you will use up mana faster with the larger heal. However, with 5/5 Tidal Waves, if you use Riptide and Chain Heal enough to keep all your wave spells hasted, I would say the exact opposite of Daidalos. Outside of pvp, lesser healing wave is not as useful as healing wave.
First off HW is not limited by the GCD cast time for typical haste amounts assuming you aren't lusted (if you meant its only sightly slower than GCD then I agree). It will depend on the fight and your strats of course but for me, I have just not found many fights that have a large amount of spike damage on a few spread out individuals where I need a 10k heal on anyone other than the tank. If such situations arise for you frequently then by all means use HW. The math of its hpm efficiency and TW cast time are not in dispute, I just haven't found the need for it in my typical raid healing.


Offline
Old 03/21/09, 10:35 PM   #660
Brgid
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Shaman
 
Feathermoon
When you say raid healing though i assume you're talking mostly about 25-man raids; for 10-man raids I find plenty of opportunity to use HW (and I glyph it...) Fights like KT you *want* people spread out so CH not really usable, won't even bounce on melee if they're spaced correctly; and the damage from Frostbolt volleys let alone iceblocks is enough that RT - HW - HW won't be a lot of overheal, AA will find a target, and you don't have to waste mana and globals healing yourself if glyphed. In terms of mana efficiency as well,

Of course if you are running 25-mans you will often find your would-be HW targets covered by other healers.

Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Shamans

Thread Tools