Elitist Jerks Shaman: Simple Questions/Simple Answers

08/08/09, 5:13 PM   #1021
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter

Pandaren Shaman

Saurfang
 Originally Posted by Lord Helmchen I need some math help here: Lets say we have the numbers LvBCastTime, LBCastTime, LvBAvgDamage and LBAvgDamage with all important stats like Lightning Overload and similar factored in. When we are waiting for the LavaBurst cooldown to run out, how big is the threshold when waiting for the LavaBurst is better than casting another Lightning Bolt? *edit I suppose this works: ``` lvb_dmg / (lvb_ct + wait) >= lb_dmg / lb_ct (lvb_dmg * lb_ct / lb_dmg) - lvb_ct >= wait  ```
Actually, it's better to compare dps with a wait to lb damage over lb cast less the wait time.

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Totemspot Guides includes Ele & Enh guides for Mists

08/09/09, 11:14 AM   #1022
Lord Helmchen
Von Kaiser

Troll Shaman

Gul'dan (EU)
 Originally Posted by Binkenstein Actually, it's better to compare dps with a wait to lb damage over lb cast less the wait time.
If I understand you correctly that means that I shall compare LvB+Wait dps against LB+LvB dps yielding the following equation:
```lvbdmg / (lvb_ct + wait) = (lb_dmg + lvb_dmg) / (lb_ct + lvb_ct)

lvbdmg * (lb_ct + lvb_ct) / (lb_dmg + lvb_dmg) - lvb_ct = wait```

Last edited by Lord Helmchen : 08/09/09 at 11:58 AM.

 08/09/09, 6:44 PM #1023 Binkenstein mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter     Binkenstein Pandaren Shaman   Saurfang No. You're comparing the dps of the wholehalf rotations with the wait, with the dps of lb over the cast time minus the wait. It's a process of elimination. On both sides there will be 2 LvB, 1 FS, 6 FS ticks, and X LB casts over time Y (made up of the cast times for 2 LvB, 1 FS, X LB, and two wait times A & B) vs the no wait rotation of 2 LvB, 1 FS, 6 FS ticks, X+2 LB over time Z (2 LvB, 1 FS, X+2 LB). So if we eliminate common details, we see that you have DPS of the rotation on one side, vs 2 LB damage over 2LB-A-B time. Generally you can split this into the two halves, and although you should probably compare to the dps of each half rotation I just use the whole to make things easier. The result is that you compare DPS of the half/whole rotation against LB damage/LB Cast - A or B TL;DR: You need to compare whole rotations, or the difference between them, rather than individual spells. www.totemspot.com The Shaman Community Site - My blog Totemspot Guides includes Ele & Enh guides for Mists
 08/09/09, 7:50 PM #1024 Lleall Glass Joe   Leal Draenei Shaman   Earthen Ring (EU) Hello. Enhancement question: I've been pondering this for quite some time now and been trying to look for the answer from everywhere; is haste worth gemming and enchating or is ap + crit simply better? Myself I've got only a little haste from gear (less than 200) and I seen a lot of enh shamans with around 400-500 haste rating without gemming for it. I'm not really good with EP values and such, but I've been trying to get some info out of simulators. I was using Enhsim but didn't quite understand it. I also downloaded rawr, but it seems to give me really weird results. It is telling me to gem for hit haste and ap even though I have over 17% hit with raidbuffs included. I'm trying to look for an answer how to get the most out of my gear with gemming and such. It seems that half of the shamans I've inspected on armory go for ap and crit and the other half for ap haste. But it's hard to say as I've not seen any logs or anything... wondering if there is some sort of rule or something how much crit % you can get and then go for another stat. Go gem/enchant cloak with haste to get more or stay with ap crit gems and wait until you get haste from gear? My dps seems to be just fine though, at least I think so, just want to know if I can do better with some changes. Thanks. Leal Ps. hopefully this doesn't sound like "help me not suck" post
08/10/09, 9:30 AM   #1025
Lord Helmchen
Von Kaiser

Troll Shaman

Gul'dan (EU)
 Originally Posted by Binkenstein ... TL;DR: You need to compare whole rotations, or the difference between them, rather than individual spells.
I basically just examined a small part of the rotation, because the rest of it is the same.
Until I have to decide whether I cast another LB or not the dps of the rotation is exactly the same. Now I take a small part of the rotation and check at what wait amount the (LB) + wait + LvB does more dps than (LB) + LB + LvB (the LB in () is not calculated). I left the LvB as part of the equation, because I have nothing to compare if I leave that out.
 The result is that you compare DPS of the half/whole rotation against LB damage/LB Cast - A or B
I don't really understand yet how they can be compared.

08/10/09, 10:54 AM   #1026
Starcle
Glass Joe

Draenei Shaman

Sylvanas (EU)
 Originally Posted by Lleall Hello. Enhancement question: I've been pondering this for quite some time now and been trying to look for the answer from everywhere; is haste worth gemming and enchating or is ap + crit simply better?
Whenever I sim the values for haste it seems to always be slightly higher than attack power. I have tested full blown haste gemming and have found the dps very random. One try on a target dummy/ Sim can come out up to a few hundred dps higher and some very much lower. I personally have aimed for 30% crit and gone ap after all caps are made. I have also (because of my new chest from the new 25 man) reached around 460 haste (or somwhere round tht mark) which i feel is enough. So im totally going for Attack power i see ur hit seems very low around 287 rating, although u seem to have a pvp 190 ap trinket equiped so maybe thats why. any ways id suggest just testing it out.

 Originally Posted by Paradox anyone have the macro for recasting WF/FT where the icon changes to WF/FT as you click it?
I beleve this is the macro for it.

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=5 Windfury Weapon, Flametongue Weapon;
/castsequence reset=5 16, 17;

only problem is if one of ur weps has a imbue on it and the other dosent then it goes funny and you have too off click the buffs and reapply them.

Last edited by Starcle : 08/12/09 at 5:49 AM.

 08/10/09, 3:15 PM #1027 Binkenstein mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter     Binkenstein Pandaren Shaman   Saurfang I don't think that the calculation will work correctly with how you're doing it there. I'll put together some examples for you later comparing different calculation methods. What I meant was that you have two cooldown windows, but one has an extra GCD taken up by recasting FS. As such, you have A (8/LB) and B((8-GCD)/LB), and you have to do two separate calculations around each. www.totemspot.com The Shaman Community Site - My blog Totemspot Guides includes Ele & Enh guides for Mists
 08/11/09, 4:25 AM #1028 GAdmiralThrawn42 Glass Joe   Jayra Draenei Shaman   Twisting Nether Is it worth getting the 354 hit rating for my shaman (The World of Warcraft Armory) to hit the hard cap, asuming I could even FIND the necessary hit??
 08/11/09, 5:49 AM #1029 Molakar Von Kaiser   Molakar Orc Shaman   Tarren Mill (EU) I'm currently on vacation and can't use EnhanceSim to check this out for myself but I'm wondering if it's advised to gem expertise instead of AP to raise your expertise on your offhand if you're wielding a Fistwep / Mace thus putting you at 31/26 expertise instead of 26/21 expertise.
08/11/09, 9:49 AM   #1030
Rouncer

Orc Shaman

Mal'Ganis
 Originally Posted by GAdmiralThrawn42 Is it worth getting the 354 hit rating for my shaman (The World of Warcraft Armory) to hit the hard cap, asuming I could even FIND the necessary hit??
Yes, until you reach the spell hit cap there is no stat with more value then +hit.

 Originally Posted by Molakar I'm currently on vacation and can't use EnhanceSim to check this out for myself but I'm wondering if it's advised to gem expertise instead of AP to raise your expertise on your offhand if you're wielding a Fistwep / Mace thus putting you at 31/26 expertise instead of 26/21 expertise.
Not worth it according to my sim runs. Make sure to cap expertise on the mainhand but not worth it for the offhand.

08/11/09, 11:18 AM   #1031
Ryethe
Piston Honda

Pandaren Shaman

Sargeras
 Originally Posted by Starcle Whenever i sim the values for haste it seems to always be slightly higher than attack power, but ive tested full blown haste gemming and have found the dps very random. one try on a target dummy/ Sim can come out up to a few hundred dps higher and some very much lower. i personally have aimed for 30% crit and gone ap after all caps are made. i have also (because of my new chest from the new 25 man) reached around 460 haste (or somwhere round tht mark) which i feel is enough, so im totally going for Attack power i see ur hit seems very low around 287 rating, although u seem to have a pvp 190 ap trinket equiped so maybe thats why. any ways id suggest just testing it out.
If you do some searching around the EnhSim thread you can find graphs and outputs for increasing haste in steps of about 4 rating over a large interval. The poster applied mathematical regression techniques to the data to find the average value of haste once the proc rate of WF is effectively capped (due to the ICD). I believe the EP value of haste was found to average around 2.0.

EDIT:
I found the post here: EnhSim, DPS simulator
and here: EnhSim, DPS simulator

Last edited by Ryethe : 08/11/09 at 12:01 PM.

 08/12/09, 4:35 AM #1032 vicc87 Glass Joe     VĂ*cc Human Priest   Azshara (EU) Hey guys, I have an alt shaman and was wondering about my dps since I switched my dps spec to enhancement. (I really only leveled the char to play enhancement at 80, was really looking forward to it.) My char is properly equipped and gemmed. I follow tips from EJ and use the proper rotations. Now I am a little bit dissapointed of my dps. I dont seem to even break the 2,5k @ "easy" bosses like emalon or archavon. My Armory Link: The World of Warcraft Armory I use WF/FT and 45hit potions to compensate my hitlack. Anybody got a clue or is it just my current gear?
 08/12/09, 12:04 PM #1033 wraxx Glass Joe   Wraxx Human Death Knight   Laughing Skull I've been mulling over a change in my overall gear and I'm wondering if I'm missing something here. Currently using 28 spellpower to gloves and Totem of Hex which is giving me 165 spellpower to LB/CL. I also have the Scale of Fates which I'm using basically on an as needed basis or to boost times where I'm using elemental mastery outside of heroism or when there is another beneficial time to use it (shadowcrashes, stormpower, etc) I'm considering getting the Totem of Electrifying Winds (200 haste with a current reported 100% uptime) and the Hyperspeed Accelerators (340 haste for 12 sec on a 1 min cooldown) as well as changing my lightning bolt to a macro that attempts to pop both the Hyperspeed Accelerators and the Scale of Fates at anytime they are up. My current haste on gear is at 548. Although it concerns me to lose that big chunk of spellpower, I'm thinking the overall will be an increase for the following reasons: 1.) Haste affecting both lava burst and the overall GCD in addition to my lightning bolts. 2.) More casts = more lightning overload procs 3.) With constant haste being applied, it could smooth out my haste enough that elemental mastery could be popped more often instead of waiting for the "perfect moment" So my questions are: 1.) Is the haste benefit for the GCD in casting noticable with the amounts of haste that I would be gaining? 2.) Is utilizing the Accelerators and Scale of Fates on a macro to keep them with maximum uptime the smartest idea or is it still better to wait for the optimal time? 3.) Is the loss of spellpower affecting both lightning bolts, flame shock, and lavaburst going to hurt more than the haste gained? Armory Link = Here
 08/12/09, 1:38 PM #1034 Zigizi Von Kaiser     Zigi Troll Shaman   Borean Tundra Totem of Calming Tides Does the [Totem of Calming Tides] have an internal cooldown?
08/12/09, 2:36 PM   #1035
Bluerose
Von Kaiser

Orc Shaman

Magtheridon (EU)
 Originally Posted by Zigizi Does the [Totem of Calming Tides] have an internal cooldown?
Possibly but it's very very short (Sorry for the useless anecdote). You cannot refresh it once its active but it can be refreshed immediately once the buff wears off. The maximum I've had to wait for it to proc was three chain heals from the limited testing I did prior to pulling this weeks ID.

The buff itself is called Spiritual Trance.

Last edited by Bluerose : 08/12/09 at 6:27 PM. Reason: Corrected my original first sentance

 Elitist Jerks Shaman: Simple Questions/Simple Answers