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Old 08/08/09, 5:13 PM   #1021
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
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Pandaren Shaman
 
Saurfang
Originally Posted by Lord Helmchen View Post
I need some math help here:
Lets say we have the numbers LvBCastTime, LBCastTime, LvBAvgDamage and LBAvgDamage with all important stats like Lightning Overload and similar factored in.

When we are waiting for the LavaBurst cooldown to run out, how big is the threshold when waiting for the LavaBurst is better than casting another Lightning Bolt?

*edit
I suppose this works:

lvb_dmg / (lvb_ct wait) >= lb_dmg lb_ct

(lvb_dmg lb_ct lb_dmg) - lvb_ct >= wait 
Actually, it's better to compare dps with a wait to lb damage over lb cast less the wait time.

www.totemspot.com The Shaman Community Site - My blog

Totemspot Guides includes Ele & Enh guides for Mists

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Old 08/09/09, 11:14 AM   #1022
Lord Helmchen
Von Kaiser
 
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Troll Shaman
 
Gul'dan (EU)
Originally Posted by Binkenstein View Post
Actually, it's better to compare dps with a wait to lb damage over lb cast less the wait time.
If I understand you correctly that means that I shall compare LvB+Wait dps against LB+LvB dps yielding the following equation:
lvbdmg / (lvb_ct + wait) = (lb_dmg + lvb_dmg) / (lb_ct + lvb_ct)

lvbdmg * (lb_ct + lvb_ct) / (lb_dmg + lvb_dmg) - lvb_ct = wait

Last edited by Lord Helmchen : 08/09/09 at 11:58 AM.

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Old 08/09/09, 6:44 PM   #1023
Binkenstein
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Pandaren Shaman
 
Saurfang
No. You're comparing the dps of the wholehalf rotations with the wait, with the dps of lb over the cast time minus the wait.

It's a process of elimination. On both sides there will be 2 LvB, 1 FS, 6 FS ticks, and X LB casts over time Y (made up of the cast times for 2 LvB, 1 FS, X LB, and two wait times A & B) vs the no wait rotation of 2 LvB, 1 FS, 6 FS ticks, X+2 LB over time Z (2 LvB, 1 FS, X+2 LB).

So if we eliminate common details, we see that you have DPS of the rotation on one side, vs 2 LB damage over 2LB-A-B time. Generally you can split this into the two halves, and although you should probably compare to the dps of each half rotation I just use the whole to make things easier.

The result is that you compare DPS of the half/whole rotation against LB damage/LB Cast - A or B

TL;DR: You need to compare whole rotations, or the difference between them, rather than individual spells.

www.totemspot.com The Shaman Community Site - My blog

Totemspot Guides includes Ele & Enh guides for Mists

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Old 08/09/09, 7:50 PM   #1024
Lleall
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Earthen Ring (EU)
Hello.

Enhancement question:

I've been pondering this for quite some time now and been trying to look for the answer from everywhere; is haste worth gemming and enchating or is ap + crit simply better? Myself I've got only a little haste from gear (less than 200) and I seen a lot of enh shamans with around 400-500 haste rating without gemming for it. I'm not really good with EP values and such, but I've been trying to get some info out of simulators. I was using Enhsim but didn't quite understand it. I also downloaded rawr, but it seems to give me really weird results. It is telling me to gem for hit haste and ap even though I have over 17% hit with raidbuffs included. I'm trying to look for an answer how to get the most out of my gear with gemming and such. It seems that half of the shamans I've inspected on armory go for ap and crit and the other half for ap haste. But it's hard to say as I've not seen any logs or anything... wondering if there is some sort of rule or something how much crit % you can get and then go for another stat.

Go gem/enchant cloak with haste to get more or stay with ap crit gems and wait until you get haste from gear?

My dps seems to be just fine though, at least I think so, just want to know if I can do better with some changes.

Thanks. Leal

Ps. hopefully this doesn't sound like "help me not suck" post

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Old 08/10/09, 9:30 AM   #1025
Lord Helmchen
Von Kaiser
 
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Troll Shaman
 
Gul'dan (EU)
Originally Posted by Binkenstein View Post
...
TL;DR: You need to compare whole rotations, or the difference between them, rather than individual spells.
I basically just examined a small part of the rotation, because the rest of it is the same.
Until I have to decide whether I cast another LB or not the dps of the rotation is exactly the same. Now I take a small part of the rotation and check at what wait amount the (LB) + wait + LvB does more dps than (LB) + LB + LvB (the LB in () is not calculated). I left the LvB as part of the equation, because I have nothing to compare if I leave that out.
The result is that you compare DPS of the half/whole rotation against LB damage/LB Cast - A or B
I don't really understand yet how they can be compared.

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Old 08/10/09, 10:54 AM   #1026
Starcle
Glass Joe
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Sylvanas (EU)
Originally Posted by Lleall View Post
Hello.

Enhancement question:

I've been pondering this for quite some time now and been trying to look for the answer from everywhere; is haste worth gemming and enchating or is ap + crit simply better?
Whenever I sim the values for haste it seems to always be slightly higher than attack power. I have tested full blown haste gemming and have found the dps very random. One try on a target dummy/ Sim can come out up to a few hundred dps higher and some very much lower. I personally have aimed for 30% crit and gone ap after all caps are made. I have also (because of my new chest from the new 25 man) reached around 460 haste (or somwhere round tht mark) which i feel is enough. So im totally going for Attack power i see ur hit seems very low around 287 rating, although u seem to have a pvp 190 ap trinket equiped so maybe thats why. any ways id suggest just testing it out.


Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
anyone have the macro for recasting WF/FT where the icon changes to WF/FT as you click it?
I beleve this is the macro for it.

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=5 Windfury Weapon, Flametongue Weapon;
/castsequence reset=5 16, 17;

only problem is if one of ur weps has a imbue on it and the other dosent then it goes funny and you have too off click the buffs and reapply them.

Last edited by Starcle : 08/12/09 at 5:49 AM.

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Old 08/10/09, 3:15 PM   #1027
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
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Pandaren Shaman
 
Saurfang
I don't think that the calculation will work correctly with how you're doing it there. I'll put together some examples for you later comparing different calculation methods.

What I meant was that you have two cooldown windows, but one has an extra GCD taken up by recasting FS. As such, you have A (8/LB) and B((8-GCD)/LB), and you have to do two separate calculations around each.

www.totemspot.com The Shaman Community Site - My blog

Totemspot Guides includes Ele & Enh guides for Mists

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Old 08/11/09, 4:25 AM   #1028
GAdmiralThrawn42
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Twisting Nether
Is it worth getting the 354 hit rating for my shaman (The World of Warcraft Armory) to hit the hard cap, asuming I could even FIND the necessary hit??

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Old 08/11/09, 5:49 AM   #1029
Molakar
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Shaman
 
Tarren Mill (EU)
I'm currently on vacation and can't use EnhanceSim to check this out for myself but I'm wondering if it's advised to gem expertise instead of AP to raise your expertise on your offhand if you're wielding a Fistwep / Mace thus putting you at 31/26 expertise instead of 26/21 expertise.

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Old 08/11/09, 9:49 AM   #1030
Rouncer
Deeper Shade of Blue
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by GAdmiralThrawn42 View Post
Is it worth getting the 354 hit rating for my shaman (The World of Warcraft Armory) to hit the hard cap, asuming I could even FIND the necessary hit??
Yes, until you reach the spell hit cap there is no stat with more value then +hit.

Originally Posted by Molakar View Post
I'm currently on vacation and can't use EnhanceSim to check this out for myself but I'm wondering if it's advised to gem expertise instead of AP to raise your expertise on your offhand if you're wielding a Fistwep / Mace thus putting you at 31/26 expertise instead of 26/21 expertise.
Not worth it according to my sim runs. Make sure to cap expertise on the mainhand but not worth it for the offhand.

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Old 08/11/09, 11:18 AM   #1031
Ryethe
Piston Honda
 
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Pandaren Shaman
 
Sargeras
Originally Posted by Starcle View Post
Whenever i sim the values for haste it seems to always be slightly higher than attack power, but ive tested full blown haste gemming and have found the dps very random. one try on a target dummy/ Sim can come out up to a few hundred dps higher and some very much lower. i personally have aimed for 30% crit and gone ap after all caps are made. i have also (because of my new chest from the new 25 man) reached around 460 haste (or somwhere round tht mark) which i feel is enough, so im totally going for Attack power i see ur hit seems very low around 287 rating, although u seem to have a pvp 190 ap trinket equiped so maybe thats why. any ways id suggest just testing it out.
If you do some searching around the EnhSim thread you can find graphs and outputs for increasing haste in steps of about 4 rating over a large interval. The poster applied mathematical regression techniques to the data to find the average value of haste once the proc rate of WF is effectively capped (due to the ICD). I believe the EP value of haste was found to average around 2.0.

EDIT:
I found the post here: EnhSim, DPS simulator
and here: EnhSim, DPS simulator

Last edited by Ryethe : 08/11/09 at 12:01 PM.

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Old 08/12/09, 4:35 AM   #1032
vicc87
Glass Joe
 
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Human Priest
 
Azshara (EU)
Hey guys, I have an alt shaman and was wondering about my dps since I switched my dps spec to enhancement.
(I really only leveled the char to play enhancement at 80, was really looking forward to it.)

My char is properly equipped and gemmed. I follow tips from EJ and use the proper rotations. Now I am a little bit dissapointed of my dps. I dont seem to even break the 2,5k @ "easy" bosses like emalon or archavon.

My Armory Link: The World of Warcraft Armory
I use WF/FT and 45hit potions to compensate my hitlack.

Anybody got a clue or is it just my current gear?

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Old 08/12/09, 12:04 PM   #1033
wraxx
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Laughing Skull
I've been mulling over a change in my overall gear and I'm wondering if I'm missing something here.

Currently using 28 spellpower to gloves and Totem of Hex which is giving me 165 spellpower to LB/CL.

I also have the Scale of Fates which I'm using basically on an as needed basis or to boost times where I'm using elemental mastery outside of heroism or when there is another beneficial time to use it (shadowcrashes, stormpower, etc)

I'm considering getting the Totem of Electrifying Winds (200 haste with a current reported 100% uptime) and the Hyperspeed Accelerators (340 haste for 12 sec on a 1 min cooldown) as well as changing my lightning bolt to a macro that attempts to pop both the Hyperspeed Accelerators and the Scale of Fates at anytime they are up. My current haste on gear is at 548.

Although it concerns me to lose that big chunk of spellpower, I'm thinking the overall will be an increase for the following reasons:

1.) Haste affecting both lava burst and the overall GCD in addition to my lightning bolts.

2.) More casts = more lightning overload procs

3.) With constant haste being applied, it could smooth out my haste enough that elemental mastery could be popped more often instead of waiting for the "perfect moment"

So my questions are:

1.) Is the haste benefit for the GCD in casting noticable with the amounts of haste that I would be gaining?

2.) Is utilizing the Accelerators and Scale of Fates on a macro to keep them with maximum uptime the smartest idea or is it still better to wait for the optimal time?

3.) Is the loss of spellpower affecting both lightning bolts, flame shock, and lavaburst going to hurt more than the haste gained?

Armory Link = Here

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Old 08/12/09, 1:38 PM   #1034
Zigizi
Von Kaiser
 
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Troll Shaman
 
Borean Tundra
Totem of Calming Tides

Does the [Totem of Calming Tides] have an internal cooldown?

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Old 08/12/09, 2:36 PM   #1035
Bluerose
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Shaman
 
Magtheridon (EU)
Originally Posted by Zigizi View Post
Does the [Totem of Calming Tides] have an internal cooldown?
Possibly but it's very very short (Sorry for the useless anecdote). You cannot refresh it once its active but it can be refreshed immediately once the buff wears off. The maximum I've had to wait for it to proc was three chain heals from the limited testing I did prior to pulling this weeks ID.

The buff itself is called Spiritual Trance.

Last edited by Bluerose : 08/12/09 at 6:27 PM. Reason: Corrected my original first sentance

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