Shaman: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 81

PageCCCXI · 10/21/09, 9:30 AM

Two questions from someone nearing Northrend on their first shaman...

1. What are the other staple shaman websites people use for information that may be omitted from EJ because it is considered too "introductory"? For instance, I would send paladin tanks to maintankadin to learn about def capping and general play style.

2. I'm trying to find a current (3.2) quick and dirty comparasson of elemental and enchancement. Who makes better use of wind shear, how the dps compairs, which is commonly more desirable in 10's or 25's, that sort of stuff.

Boondok · 10/21/09, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by PageCCCXI

Two questions from someone nearing Northrend on their first shaman...

1. What are the other staple shaman websites people use for information that may be omitted from EJ because it is considered too "introductory"? For instance, I would send paladin tanks to maintankadin to learn about def capping and general play style.

2. I'm trying to find a current (3.2) quick and dirty comparasson of elemental and enchancement. Who makes better use of wind shear, how the dps compairs, which is commonly more desirable in 10's or 25's, that sort of stuff.

1. I'm pretty sure you can find all the information you need here, or on MMO-champion.com, if you use the search function.

2. I find ele's are more common in 10s than enhance, but a 25man will usually have 1 of each. Enhance makes better use of wind shear because ele usually isn't within 20 yards. A successful 25 brings both, so play whichever you like the most.

Zamir · 10/21/09, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by PageCCCXI

1. What are the other staple shaman websites people use for information that may be omitted from EJ because it is considered too "introductory"? For instance, I would send paladin tanks to maintankadin to learn about def capping and general play style

There's a basic introductory guide to elemental on my blog, linked from my profile. For enhance and resto, I know they're not terribly friendly-looking, but the Think Tank pieces here on EJ should serve as a decent introduction. Just skip past all the scary maths stuff if that's off-putting.

Rouncer · 10/21/09, 11:30 AM

Check out the stickies on the Shaman forums on the official site. They are very well done and I know that at least the enhancement is being maintained.

Pheynix · 10/21/09, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Zamir

There's a basic introductory guide to elemental on my blog, linked from my profile.

I just finished leveling a Shaman to do alt raids with, and wanted to spec Elemental. Sadly the Shaman forums and ThinkTank were lacking in a basic guide.

I just wanted to take a second and thank you for a very informative guide for us noobs looking to spec Elemental.

Shapermc · 10/21/09, 11:38 PM

Ok, simple question: Using Rawr and looking at my gear (ele) it's estimating me at 4300 dps. My rotation is solid and I use LvB as soon as it comes available (if cooldown<1sec I wait for it), but unless I'm lucky I can't seem to push past 3.6k dps. I'm not complaining here, I'm more curious how Rawr works this out, is if off of 80 elites, 80 trash, or raid bosses?

Second quick question: Is it now worth while (3.2.2) to put Chain Lightning into my rotation for a dps boost on single targets? I've read conflicting reports on this.

Philondra · 10/22/09, 1:33 AM

Originally Posted by Shapermc

Second quick question: Is it now worth while (3.2.2) to put Chain Lightning into my rotation for a dps boost on single targets? I've read conflicting reports on this.

The gains you get from CL on a single target are very minor (generally on the order of ~50 dps in ilevel 245 gear), but its extreme mana cost may be be prohibitive. In the end, it comes down to whether or not your mana pool will last the duration of the fight.

The mana cost can be mitigated somewhat if you only use CL after LvB. Note that depending on distance to the mob, haste, and latency, you may need to throw a single LB first to make sure that the LvB crit has time to register. Some people choose instead to only use CL as a rotation fixer (i.e. when LvB is about to come off cooldown, casting CL rather than LB will enable you to cast your next LvB sooner.)

Lord Helmchen · 10/22/09, 4:21 AM

Originally Posted by Shapermc

Ok, simple question: Using Rawr and looking at my gear (ele) it's estimating me at 4300 dps. My rotation is solid and I use LvB as soon as it comes available (if cooldown<1sec I wait for it), but unless I'm lucky I can't seem to push past 3.6k dps. I'm not complaining here, I'm more curious how Rawr works this out, is if off of 80 elites, 80 trash, or raid bosses?

Second quick question: Is it now worth while (3.2.2) to put Chain Lightning into my rotation for a dps boost on single targets? I've read conflicting reports on this.

The Rawr Elemental module does not factor in any lag or movement and assumes every spell to be perfectly timed. As far as I can tell this is impossible to reach and even when I have a very good streak I cannot touch the estimate.

Vantran · 10/22/09, 8:25 AM

Short question :

[Restoration]

Currently running with T8.25 4p bonus. Now, when should I switch to T9.25 ? Just wondering whether there's a general answer to that. If not, I'm going to have a few runs with the shaman_hep.

Grymoire · 10/22/09, 8:31 AM

Second quick question: Is it now worth while (3.2.2) to put Chain Lightning into my rotation for a dps boost on single targets? I've read conflicting reports on this

Even on single target, CL is doing more damage than LB, you will need to see for yourself if you have enough mana to handle CL in your rotation to the end of the fight.

There is usually 2 ways to put CL in your rotation: on CD or after LvB.

Using CL as soon as on CD (but LvB still come in priority) will generate more dps, but will also eat up mana a lot faster.

Using CL only after LvB (but generally advised to put a LB in between as if your CL landed too soon you wont get the benefit of CC, so the cycle is more like FS > LvB > LB > CL) will still be better than LB spam and doesn't put as much strain on your mana, while slightly lower on dps than using CL on CD, if the fight last long enough you can keep CL in your rotation til the end of the fight; Whereas using CL on CD might end up OOM before the fight finishes, which will result in loss in dps due to you will have to take CL out of the cycle to keep LB going, so it all depends on mana management.

• Jessamy · 10/22/09, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Vantran

Currently running with T8.25 4p bonus. Now, when should I switch to T9.25 ? Just wondering whether there's a general answer to that. If not, I'm going to have a few runs with the shaman_hep.

Here's a snippet from my last combatlog report running with tier 8 4 piece bonus:

Tier 8 2-piece:
	Number of casts before cooldown would have been up: 172 (8.78% of riptide casts)
		Combat casts: 172 (8.96%)
Tier 8 4-piece:
	Chain Heals benefitting from T8 4-piece count: 1910 (100.00%)
		Combat count: 1881 (100.00%)
	Chain Heal without T8 4-piece HPS: 8084, EHPS: 4377
		Combat HPS: 8025, EHPS: 4318
	Chain Heal with T8 4-piece HPS: 8955, EHPS: 4849
		Combat HPS: 8904, EHPS: 4791
	Spamming chain heal Combat EHPS gain: 413, HEP gain: 991
	Combat time saved: 6 mins 16 secs 
	Combat EHPS increase: 12.0437
	HEP: 28.8406

Here's a snippet from my last combatlog report running with tier 8 2 piece bonus:

Tier 8 2-piece:
	Number of casts before cooldown would have been up: 159 (2.79% of riptide casts)
		Combat casts: 159 (2.88%)
Tier 9 2-piece:
	Effective: 5280209 (2.91%), Total: 10636818 (3.21%)
		Combat Effective: 5128063 (2.87%), Total: 10251828 (3.28%)
	Combat EHPS: 46.6892
	HEP: 88.7195

So, for my personal situation (gear, latency, raid composition, personal healing style, guild progression, boss strats, etc), the tier 9 2 piece bonus is almost 3 times better than the tier 8 4 piece bonus. As soon as I found a piece of non-set gear that was more than 30 hep stat points higher than my tier 8, I chose to upgrade. (I ran with [Robes of the Umbral Brute] for a week or two before I got my tier 9 chest. With the current value of haste it's far better than the tier 8 chest.)

godzirra · 10/22/09, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Lord Helmchen

The Rawr Elemental module does not factor in any lag or movement and assumes every spell to be perfectly timed. As far as I can tell this is impossible to reach and even when I have a very good streak I cannot touch the estimate.

How close are you getting?

I'm using simcraft, enhsim, and rawr to figure out what dps I -should- be at. (Armory is in profile link if you want to look at gear). After reading through here, my priority system is pretty standard, i.e. MWx5->SS->ES-LL .

Rawr gives me 6992 dps points. Enshim tells me 2842 dps. Simcraft tells me average of 6400 max of 8300.

This is a link of our unsuccessful grand crusader run last night, and shows my dps (I'm zepia, obviously).

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

Recount shows that I averaged around 5.4k which is a lot higher than EnhSim and Wow Meter Online, and a lot lower than Rawr and Simcraft, and a lot lower than my guild leader wants it to be.

So I guess the million dollar question is, where am I screwing up? (And yes, I've read every single article on enhancement shammies on elitist jerks, so its not that I just haven't read)

• Jessamy · 10/22/09, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by godzirra

Rawr gives me 6992 dps points. Enshim tells me 2842 dps.

Enhsim and rawr never agree exactly for me, but they're closer than this. You probably have something missing from your enhsim config. Check to make sure you have everything appropriate selected in the Consumables and Buffs tab. Also, if you have Simulate Mana selected, make sure you also select appropriate mana regen buffs, and have SR on top of your priority list in the Rotation and Misc tab.

godzirra · 10/22/09, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Jessamy

Enhsim and rawr never agree exactly for me, but they're closer than this. You probably have something missing from your enhsim config. Check to make sure you have everything appropriate selected in the Consumables and Buffs tab. Also, if you have Simulate Mana selected, make sure you also select appropriate mana regen buffs, and have SR on top of your priority list in the Rotation and Misc tab.

Everything is checked (though I've not changed the values of the buffs) and I checked replenishmen, mana spring, bow and jow. Still getting the exact same DPS.

Ah ha... I was using enhsim incorrectly and didn't have anything checked in my rotation priority... now its telling me 5721.

That's still lower than Simcraft, but higher than I'm doing now for dps according to the WMO link. So I'm still not sure what I'm doing wrong (although at this point it seems like something wrong with something I'm doing, as opposed to weird data from the sims).

Thanks

Ryethe · 10/22/09, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by godzirra

How close are you getting?

I'm using simcraft, enhsim, and rawr to figure out what dps I -should- be at. (Armory is in profile link if you want to look at gear). After reading through here, my priority system is pretty standard, i.e. MWx5->SS->ES-LL .

Rawr gives me 6992 dps points. Enshim tells me 2842 dps. Simcraft tells me average of 6400 max of 8300.

This is a link of our unsuccessful grand crusader run last night, and shows my dps (I'm zepia, obviously).

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

Recount shows that I averaged around 5.4k which is a lot higher than EnhSim and Wow Meter Online, and a lot lower than Rawr and Simcraft, and a lot lower than my guild leader wants it to be.

So I guess the million dollar question is, where am I screwing up? (And yes, I've read every single article on enhancement shammies on elitist jerks, so its not that I just haven't read)

I took a look at your armory and a big part of it is gear. You have a bunch of ivl200 items including a weapon. I see a bunch of leather as well, some of which has ArP on it. Mail is generally better now that we get AP from int coupled with the way the ilvl mechanics work. ArP is just bad after the last round of changes. At low levels of ArP it'll lead to meger DPS increases. If you look in the BiS thread you'll see that ArP is somewhat decent but this is only because we're forced to take so much of it and thus ArP gets pushed into acceptable ranges.

I would also question your gemming of haste. At those levels of gear I'm not sure I ever saw haste creep over the value of AP (you may want to double check this with Rawr and EnhSim imports).

To boot you have worse items in some slots than the craftable items. Belt of Dragons over your current belt and crusader's dragonscale bracers over the 219. Also, there's also a better cloak than yours for valor badges.