[Elemental] Optimal Gear & Item Discussion - Page 15

Zipher · 09/21/09, 4:50 AM

Does anyone know how the new Brewfest trinket functions with Sundial of the Exiled? Do they share the same cooldown? The buff they proc is exactly the same. I tired to get them to proc at the same time just casting on target dummies, but couldn't get it to happen even once despite it being very easy to do with either of the trinkets and Dying Curse.

Here is my armory The World of Warcraft Armory

I'm way over the hit cap so I was excited about the new easy to get trinket (I'm wearing it in the armory even though it says tooltip error when you hover over the second trinket). But if proc'ing one triggers an internal cooldown on the other, I think I am better off using Dying Curse despite the hit being wasted till something else comes along (probably abyssal rune, but it never drops for me).

Conq[SUN] · 09/21/09, 5:28 AM

Originally Posted by Zipher

Does anyone know how the new Brewfest trinket functions with Sundial of the Exiled? Do they share the same cooldown? The buff they proc is exactly the same. ...

I was wondering the same thing. I tried similar tests with the same result.
I guess the right way to test it is to combatlog it and upload to World of Logs or somthing similar. Then you can filter on the buff and see if it ever procs within 45 seconds.

Agali · 09/21/09, 8:04 AM

Originally Posted by orion121

Kids, just say NO to staffs. In nearly all cases regardless of class or spec a staff will be largely inferior to any MH/OH combination simply due to the non-linear means of stat allocation Blizzard uses (100 hit costs more then 2x50 hit in terms of iLvL points spent).

Beyond the issue of pure stat allocation shields grant 5-7000 extra armor (roughly 25% physical damage reduction), and while in some specific cases (Sunwell) available OH's greatly outperformed shields there is little to no stat loss from running a shield over an OH.

tl;dr Unless a Staff/OH represents a MAJOR stat gain and/or is not wanted by any other raider, wait for a MH/Shield combo.

So what you're saying is that in PvE I should rather take the armor a shield gives than a huge chunk of extra SP, haste and crit? Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense.

Grymoire · 09/21/09, 8:39 AM

Originally Posted by Agali

So what you're saying is that in PvE I should rather take the armor a shield gives than a huge chunk of extra SP, haste and crit? Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense.

I think what he means is, most of the time you get better overall stat when you use a main hand + shield combo.

The staff that you use gives (assuming you put 3 sp gem in) 690sp, 122 crit and 117 haste. And if you get the dagger and shield from the same calibur (10man HC) you get dagger (Sunreaver blade or Blade of Silver Disciple) that gives 644sp (again assuming sp gem), 37 crit and 58 haste, you can also get a shield there (Baston of Resolve or Baston of Purity) that gives 89sp, 50 crit and 50 haste, add them in total it will be 733sp, 87 crit and 108 haste on the dagger/shield combo, sure you lose out on a little crit and haste but you are winning with 43sp on top.

LITTLER0TT · 09/21/09, 8:58 AM

I think if you don't currently have something you should be allowed to use a staff. Sure its not Best in slot or anything, its just something to tide you over till then.

Back in BC I used [Zhar'doom, Greatstaff of the Devourer] and I wouldn't trade it for anything I loved that staff.

Agali · 09/21/09, 9:04 AM

Originally Posted by Grymoire

I think what he means is, most of the time you get better overall stat when you use a main hand + shield combo.

The staff that you use gives (assuming you put 3 sp gem in) 690sp, 122 crit and 117 haste. And if you get the dagger and shield from the same calibur (10man HC) you get dagger (Sunreaver blade or Blade of Silver Disciple) that gives 644sp (again assuming sp gem), 37 crit and 58 haste, you can also get a shield there (Baston of Resolve or Baston of Purity) that gives 89sp, 50 crit and 50 haste, add them in total it will be 733sp, 87 crit and 108 haste on the dagger/shield combo, sure you lose out on a little crit and haste but you are winning with 43sp on top.

I agree that is a better choice, but I don't really have the luxury of choosing as it is now. My guild does 10-mans on daytime or on weekends, when I mostly can't play. So I would have been stuck with [Spectral Kris] and [Pulsing Spellshield] for at least one more month as so many others compete with me and have higher DKP for both shields and daggers or maces. So getting something on a dkp-free roll is pure luxury.

And that's just the way it is in this game, everyone have wish gear that we aim to get but while we're getting there something else must be used instead - and we must upgrade on the way.
I know the staff is an upgrade, we don't have to discuss that.

The things I wanted to ask about is if you guys are also denied upgrades in the form of staffs by your guilds and if you think that is fair?
Also I had a question concerning my leggings. See my post above for details.

Lemmmer · 09/21/09, 9:14 AM

Originally Posted by Thebainz

Curious, right now I am running with :

[Elemental Focus Stone]
and
[Abyssal Rune]

Now I am a bit over the hit cap, and I am curious would it be worth swapping Elemental Focus Stone with Dying Curse? (If it ever drops that is)
Is Dying Curse superior to Elemental Focus Stone?
Running with 593 Haste +200 from Totem.

Simple answer here I think, all else being equal and you are at or over the hit cap with both [Elemental Focus Stone] and [Dying Curse], using our fearless leader's Bink's spreadsheet, then Dying Curse would equate to approximately a 40 dps increase (128 vs. 84), given gear of around that level.

Shantiqua · 09/21/09, 9:23 AM

Hey all, long time follower, 1st time post so go easy on me >_>;;

Here's a link to my armoy: The World of Warcraft Armory (currently in non raid set up, just replace hit ring with the etched kirin tor ring)

I have been hearing some varying opinions in the field of trinket usage. I hear mostly positives for my [Eye of the Broodmother] but where i get differing reviews is on the [Talisman of Volatile Power]. I was interesting in knowing what you guys might think would be best for me and my gear situation of what's available to me.

Obviously i would LOVE the trinket off of 25Anub, but I'll be in line a long long time for that.

I'd post a WWS review of my performance in raiding if our guy would get off his ass and get it working again but whatever, i typically find myself towards the lower end on the DPS meters usually around 4-5k in most fights. Is this normal with the fact that Elemental is a class really hurting over all.

Thanks.

LITTLER0TT · 09/21/09, 9:25 AM

Originally Posted by Agali

The things I wanted to ask about is if you guys are also denied upgrades in the form of staffs by your guilds and if you think that is fair?
Also I had a question concerning my leggings. See my post above for details.

I haven't been denied staves, I have however been denied [Ring of the Darkmender] because it has Mp5. Far more irritating considering its one of our Best in slot rings. Thank you blizzard for making zero caster rings in 25 ToC very kind of you.

Lemmmer · 09/21/09, 9:35 AM

Originally Posted by Agali

With that said I have a tiny issue when it comes to my leggings. Wearing the t7,5 leggings I had to get [Leggings of the Lifetender] when it dropped and no druid wanted it. I was happy with my upgrade even though it had some crappy spirit. Then I got my [Conqueror's Worldbreaker Kilt] but realized that the only thing those leggings added was a hit overcap and some crit - the SP is the same. With a few more pieces swapped out (new boots, for example) I am now dubious on which leggings to use. I have tried doing a DPS check but I think it's hard to see the difference. My main thought is to use the leather ones until I get an item that will break my 4 set bonus. Is that correct?

The DPS difference between the two items above are very slight, if you don't take into account the hit rating or set bonus (with [Leggings of the Lifetender] barely ahead). However, if neither hit or set bonus is a consideration, why not just grab the easy to get [Leggings of the Snowy Bramble] (a H. ToC 5 man drop), which blows both of them out of the water from a dps perspective? The 4 set bonus has been mentioned many times in these threads - don't break it until the dps gain is greater than the loss of 4 set dps.

To summarize, become familiar with the Wowhead or Lootrank links in Bink's spreadsheet - it answers all your questions and others you haven't even thought to ask yet. (Thanks Bink!)

Lemmmer · 09/21/09, 9:50 AM

Originally Posted by LITTLER0TT

I haven't been denied staves, I have however been denied [Ring of the Darkmender] because it has Mp5. Far more irritating considering its one of our Best in slot rings. Thank you blizzard for making zero caster rings in 25 ToC very kind of you.

Oh, there's a nice caster ring in 25 ToC - [Band of Deplorable Violence], for everyone but shammies that is. Trying seeing what kind of abuse you get in Vent for trying to roll that one. You might as well /gquit. (I have not tried btw, but can only imagine the carnage now...) So, yes, thanks Blizz - gg.

Regarding [Ring of the Darkmender], given the likely mana constraints we will be dealing with in the coming new changes, while mp5 is ceratinly not a super desirable stat, neither is it anything to scoff at either... No math to back this up yet, just a hunch...

Grymoire · 09/22/09, 8:57 AM

I am not denying staff, however, especially if your guild runs a DKP system, for rolling on the staff so that "you have a fixed for now while waiting on better gear", wouldn't that use up your DKP even further so you would have to wait even longer to get better dagger and shields? Don't forget, as soon as you get either the dagger or shield, you wouldn't be able to use the staff anymore, or unless you keep the staff until you got the full dagger/shield combo, while it is a good "short term" upgrade, I think it does you more harm than good in the "long term" upgrade.

Keep staff until you get full dagger/shield combo - you would love to see the reaction of the people that also roll on the shield/dagger but lost when you tell them you won it but wont be using it for a long time (til you get the other half)

Use new shield/dagger with old item on the other hand - it will suddenly become a downgrade for you until you get the other half.

So either way you will get the stick.

The things I wanted to ask about is if you guys are also denied upgrades in the form of staffs by your guilds and if you think that is fair?
Also I had a question concerning my leggings. See my post above for details.

I think it si unfair if they actively stop you from rolling on it, I wouldn't only because it seems an inefficient way to upgrade but the choice should be opened for you if you do decide to go that path.

Regarding to the spirit/mp5 on ring, I would have roll on them anyway. I would reconsider IF there is a better option out there, a ring that doesn't have spirit or mp5 but can match up on the sp and haste/crit, but until there is one, I will roll on the ring that has spirit or mp5 on it cause it is pretty much the only possible upgrade for now.

LITTLER0TT · 09/22/09, 9:54 AM

Don't get me wrong I know its an incredible ring I just think its stupid that Our Best in slot ring is a healer ring.

Junox · 09/22/09, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Agali

I agree that is a better choice, but I don't really have the luxury of choosing as it is now. My guild does 10-mans on daytime or on weekends, when I mostly can't play. So I would have been stuck with [Spectral Kris] and [Pulsing Spellshield] for at least one more month as so many others compete with me and have higher DKP for both shields and daggers or maces. So getting something on a dkp-free roll is pure luxury.

And that's just the way it is in this game, everyone have wish gear that we aim to get but while we're getting there something else must be used instead - and we must upgrade on the way.
I know the staff is an upgrade, we don't have to discuss that.

The things I wanted to ask about is if you guys are also denied upgrades in the form of staffs by your guilds and if you think that is fair?
Also I had a question concerning my leggings. See my post above for details.

First, the leggings. If you're hit-capped without the leggings, yes, replace the T8 ones with the leather ones until something else breaks the T8 bonus (assuming it's the 4-pc, the 2-pc one can be glyphed now). While hit-capped, you can basically erase the "hit" stat on the gear, since it's doing nothing for you. 59 haste is a better option than 76 crit.

OK NOW onto the DKP issue thing. I would have waited for the upgrade myself, as you will now be shoehorned into using that for quite some time. Compared to what you had, it's a very clear upgrade, but if your guild is doing 10-man heroic ToC, I'd have waited on the dagger that drops off Faction Champs for the reasons people are stating above.

On a side note, guilds that run on DKP where you can get items you want for some points system are fine, but when they start setting arbitrary rules on who can get loot regardless of DKP... that's just dumb. If you've got the DKP, you should be able to roll on it, as long as your class can use it. It's your DKP you're using, so the priest can get whatever they want next time.

edit: I just realized you free-rolled on it.. same thing goes though, it's a rather big upgrade for you, so why wouldn't they want you to have it? As long as you're doing good DPS in raids I'd think they'd be happy to give you something like that... well, except for the priest who lost.

edit2:

Originally Posted by Lemmmer

Oh, there's a nice caster ring in 25 ToC - [Band of Deplorable Violence], for everyone but shammies that is. Trying seeing what kind of abuse you get in Vent for trying to roll that one. You might as well /gquit. (I have not tried btw, but can only imagine the carnage now...) So, yes, thanks Blizz - gg.

How is this new? Ulduar was full of Resto-esque gear, as was Naxx. Been going on for awhile. Fortunately our tier gear is good and the emblem ring [Band of the Invoker] is nice as well.

Agali · 09/22/09, 4:04 PM

Thank you, guys, for your replies!
I understand that I will have to take it easy on my bids when it's a dagger/mace and a shield as I can, as you wrote, only get one half and will have to wait for the other one. Although there are currently 14 others in my guild who would probably be interested in the dagger and at least 5 with more DKP than me who would probably be upgraded by the shield. So even if both dropped every time we killed those bosses it'd take me helluva long time to get them. So I welcome an upgrade on the way there, can't really be arsed worrying about people's reactions later. Even so I am probably one of the people in my guild who would definitely allow others to take gear over me if it was a bigger upgrade for them, so I'm not a complete arse. xD (Although I notice people are more willing to pass for me than others as I'm female, which pisses me off.)

Also, even if we're horde's first on our server and competing for server's first, we have not yet killed anything in totc 25 heroic, Auriaya hard, Mim hard, Freya hard or Yogg hard. So it will take me even LOOONGER! ^^

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The questions on why my DPS suck should be put in the WWS and gear helping thread, no?